I'm beginning a new thread for our study of the book Woman to Woman. Woman to Woman: Click Here to view.

If you would like to join us, please do. There are no leaders in this study... and no timelines to follow.

Just a discussion and reaching out for women. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

No need to do anything but jump in when you feel comfortable!

Have a great weekend and see you next week!! [color:"pink"] [/color] [color:"pink"] [/color]

Okay, well, I read through the first two (very short and easy reading) chapters and highlighted some things.

First chapter is about discontentment. She says four things lead to it: Greed, Fear, Lack of trust in God and Looking in the wrong places. The way to conquor it: Gratitude and thanksgiving. I know this is true and while important, I want to focus on something she said in the second chapter.

Chapter two is about struggling with yourself. She asks us to think about when we were first saved. And you know what? I did that and it's what I'd like to write about today.

My parents were not religious. My mom was spiritual, dad was raised Southern Baptist and had bad memories of the "Bible Thumpers". I was a fearless teen and went out on my own to find who God was. I found Him at the Church of Christ Bible Camp. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It was 1974. I was 15 years old.

I have never stopped believing in God but have moved away (far, far away) from organized religion. That's a long story that's perhaps better suited for another day.

One thing that Joyce says that confused me is that the Holy Spirit walks alongside us. I thought the Holy Spirit was that still, small voice INSIDE us? Any thoughts on this?

Anyone else begin the book?

Hello...

I have not read this book but I just wanted to comment and tell you that I love Joyce... she is such an awesome communicator and she really lifts my spirits, I do have several of her books...might have to get this one and join in!!!

Hi NBII, I've ordered the book, I haven't gotten it yet...

So I haven't read the book yet, but I found what you wrote about the Holy Spirit interesting. IIRC, somewhere Jesus describes the Holy Spirit as the Comforter... I think the Holy Spirit is described other ways also... it may be interesting to look up all the references. I may do that after dinner tonight if I have time.

My personal opinion regarding viewing the Holy Spirit as walking beside us vs. being the still small voice inside us, is that *where* you picture it coming from is your own personal choice. I'm saying that having not read the stuff you are referring to, and I'm not basing this on anything, it's just my own personal opinion.

Any other thoughts?

willlovehim4ever, yes, you are more than welcome! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

jayne, I understand what you're saying... I actually did a very (very) short study and found this: The Holy Spirit dwells inside every Christian, each one's body being His temple (1 Corinthians 3:16). I would love to discuss this more!

Chapter 3 of Joyce's book is about something I am very familiar with: Worrying (Anxiety) and Prayer. It's the anxiety that I'm most familiar with because I have an anxiety disorder - although I don't like labels.

I love what Joyce says: "When our minds are constantly on ourselves, our problems, and our personal needs, we become ineffective and powerless."

Now I know a thing or two about this because I spent far too many years stuck inside myself, my problems. I did pray... and it did help me "feel" better... but it didn't give me peace. I wanted it sooooo bad!

She suggests asking the Lord to show us every time we are TAKING ON care instead of CASTING IT OFF. I'm going to do this! Can you imagine if we didn't have to worry about things anymore?

I'm not going deeply into what I'm reading but giving a bit of a synopsis and thoughts... when you guys get the book, I'll backtrack with you and discuss. In the meantime, maybe one of Joyce's chapters will touch someone and they will join us... so... on to Chapter 4!

Title: You are a work in progress

Ain't that the truth? She says that many women she knows don't like themselves (not surprising!).

God never intended us to feel bad about ourselves. And if God truly knows us and loves us then why shouldn't we love ourselves? (She cites Jeremiah 1:5 which says: Before I formed you in the womb I knew and approved of you [as my chosen instrument])"... That verse is interesting to me. I obviously believe in God and creation... but do I believe that God honestly knew me at conception? Who was I at conception? I know a "soul" but... a personality?... what? What do you think?

At the end of the chapter, she mentioned how we (as women) think that people (all people) are overly concerned with our performance. I wondered if she meant as women, as mothers, as employees, as church members or all of those? She suggests that we believe that God feels the same way! Do you think that? I have always felt that in spite of many things, God has never given up on me. I wonder what that means about me? Maybe I have more self-worth that I realize? Interesting.

Wow, those are some great ideas. I can visualize "casting off" vs. "taking on". That's a helpful way to look at it.

I hope my book arrives soon! I don't know how long the shipping was supposed to take.

Re. the Holy Spirit: I haven't had time yet to look this up, but I think the Holy Spirit is described somewhere as the Comforter, and the, not sure what word is used but something like the explainer or interpreter?

Here's a couple things I found:

Psalm 51:10-12
"Create in me a pure heart, O God,
and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.
Restore to me the joy of your salvation
and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me."

I love verse 12. When I was in high school our choir had a song we sang that went "Restore to me the joy of my salvation."

This is the passage I was thinking of:
John 14:15-27
15If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?"
23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
25"All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."

Yes, I've certainly heard the Holy Spirit called the Comforter.

Here's some verses I found:

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Gal 4:6 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Interesting, eh?

Chapter 5

Well, this chapter is interesting to me for one particular reason: She says that if we're feeling "Frazzled, Frantic, and Frustrated" we need to "Do Something About It!"

It's the "Do Something About It" that interests me, because I have often been confused about how much God really has his hand in my life and how much my own hand leads the way.

She says we need to ask God to help us make the changes we need to make in order to get our lives back on track. But, WE need to do the work!

She mentions the dreaded word "Should" and tells us not to give into what the world thinks we should do.

It's hard, though, when the reality is that we have obligations we can't get out of... sure, if you've overextended yourself you can choose not to lead the girl scout troup this year, but what if the obligations are something more substantial? What if it's an aging parent, a disabled child, a health crisis? I have found it very, VERY difficult to 'let go and let God' handle it... and I don't think that's what she's saying anyway...

I know God is not the author of confusion so I guess I'll just keep pressing on to find out what the truth of the matter is...

If the answer is: Just do it... is the question: How can I make my life better?

Before I write today I want to explain something about this book. It is really more like a devotional - as in: The chapters are very short (1-3 pages) and concise. So there will be a LOT to discuss. Anyone else get the book yet?

Chapter 6 has a funny title: Are you always on your mind? It reminds me of that song... Willie Nelson... Elvis... both sang it... "You were always on my mind"... and if you substitute it with "I am always on my mind"... it's just kind of comical.

She talks of me-ism, which we've heard a whole bunch of times, even here at MB.

After infidelity it's all about ME - whether you're the WS or BS. The WS mindset is selfish to begin with... the BS mindset is going to be in protection mode for quite some time...

But later on, when the WS becomes a former WS (FWS) and the BS isn't feeling so raw... it is then that I think we have to be very careful not to go into being a perpetual victim. I know of what I speak, having been both a BS (first) and then many years later a WS. Both happened years and years ago but you never forget, do you? And you shouldn't...

It also happens in other aspects of our lives, of course. I could tell long stories about me, but isn't the point to take our minds OFF ourselves? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Joyce says we need to be delivered from being the center of our lives and put God there.

Hi NB,

I haven't forgotten ya, I just still haven't received my book! I'm getting worried. I surfed around and ordered the cheapest one I could find, not the link you provided. I'm sorry... I saved about $1.60 and now I don't know if I'll even get the book at all. I sent them email last week which they haven't answered.

I wish I'd just ordered from the link you gave.

My book arrived! Actually it may have arrived several days ago and I just didn't realize - I was expecting it to come to the door, via Fedex or UPS. It was in the mailbox, which we didn't check for several days because we've had the flu or something. But it's here now, and I am grateful!

I want to apologize for the bad thoughts I was having about the company I bought it from.

I've read the Intro and Ch. 1.


I like how she defines contentment. She specifically says it is NOT being satisfied to the point of not working for change, but rather, being satisfied to the point where you aren't anxious or disturbed. I like this.

Also, she talks about how her H once said he realized he could never satisfy her so he was going to stop working so hard. That really struck me. I wonder if my H has thought that.

I want to:
- learn to derive my satisfaction from Christ Jesus
- replace greed and fear with trust in Him
- close destructive doors of discontentment through gratitude and thanksgiving
- enjoy my everyday life NOW instead of waiting for it to be perfect.

This is powerful stuff.

One thing I've been practicing is in the mornings, reciting a "grateful" list - all the things I'm grateful or thankful for. I'm surprised at the effect that's had on my attitude.

NB, thank you for suggesting this book!

You're welcome, jayne. I really like what this woman has to say! And I mentioned elsewhere that I saw her in person in the early 90's at a Woman's Retreat. She was very, very funny and personable, just like she seems.

I like the gratitude list, too and actually put together a gratitude book about four years ago. I was using it too, but uh, yeah, I stopped. I wonder what THAT'S about? I am so grateful for so much... maybe I need to do what you're doing and just recite it... I like to write though... but... so often don't find the time. Hmmm...

I'll wait for you to catch up to me and then we'll be on the same page, so to speak (pun intended). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I am not reading ahead, I've stopped.

Aw, thanks for waiting, NB! Now I feel obliged...

I'm feeling stressed and over-extended right now so I don't have a lot of time, but I'll catch up as fast as I can. I'm glad the chapters are shot, they really are like devotions so I'm reading them as my morning devotion. I read ch. 2 this morning. It was what I needed for today. I've been feeling the way she describes - feeling guilty, wanting to give up. The devil HAS been telling me I'm a failure!

Today I was especially helped by remembering to not lose hope or grow weary (Gal. 6:9); that God loves me and is working on me; that He corrects me out of His love for me, and He is transforming me to His will.

I see what you were saying, about her discussion of the Holy Spirit. One thing I was confused about - she says to follow the Holy Spirit by following our heart - not our head or our feelings. I would've thought my heart and my feelings were the same thing.

Hi jayne,

Remember what I said?
Please do NOT feel pressured in ANY way. I normally don't get the chance to write except for lunch times... 'cause we don't have the internet at home. There are reasons we want to have it - like this study... but...

The reasons we got rid of the internet were partly to do with the computer we have (long story, old computer, dial-up AOL 4.0 - you get the picture)... but the other part, the bigger part is that we CHOOSE not to have the internet, which is a really short story: I get addicted. That's the short part. The longer part is that my H and I POJA'd it and decided that for us, the time we spent on it and away from each other was too precious.

So, again, don't feel obliged or pressured or anything else, except maybe excited to see what God has in store for us. God's timing... not ours. Okay?

Just dropping by to say that I've been thinking about this book, about her message... about worth and gratitude. While I'm waiting for anyone else to join... allow me to share my gratitudes:

A husband who adores me

Children who love and respect me (and anyone who knows my story knows how precious this is)

My cat, the spoiled rotten fat furry sweetheart!

A job I love

A roof over my head

A car that isn't on its last legs

My health (at my tender age there are a few issues, but for the most part I am healthy)

Winter's almost over!

Two really close women friends I can count on any time of the day or night

My friends, acquaintances, co-workers, bosses, clients and even sometimes strangers who touch my life.

That God never gave up on me!!

What a wonderful idea, to post a gratitude list here!

I want to let you know that I've read through ch. 6 and even peaked ahead, but was completely swamped for over a week and didn't have time to come post. Well, also I tend to procrastinate things if I think I'll have time to do them "better" later - and I felt that I "should" write a lot of details - for example, I'd like to post the verse or phrase from each chapter that really spoke to me. Because each day seemed to have just the phrase or verse I needed for that day. (And I've been going through some rough days lately.) Since I didn't have time to go back through the chapters and write all that, well, I procrastinated...

I'm trying to learn to not do that; to not procrastinate with the idea I'll achieve perfection if I wait. It's better to jump in and do. Like she says (in ch. 3? See, I'm not going to stop and look it up! Let the imperfection stay!) it is ok to not be perfect. I don't have to have already arrived. It's ok to enjoy the journey.

I want to thank you for recommending this book. Really, each day seemed to say just what I needed - I've been feeling frazzled, I've been attacked by feelings of not performing perfectly, I've been too busy with urgent things to do the important things, I've been worried and anxious and trying to fix things myself without placing my faith in God.

Tonight I started re-reading the chapters, with the idea that I'd post how each chapter spoke to me. I'm up to ch. 6, which I think is where you'd stopped. I've decided to embrace not doing it perfectly - writing a summary of how each ch. spoke to me - and just coming here to post!

You said you'd stopped at ch. 6, so I'll wait to hear from you before reading any further.

Just a little bit on how this book is touching me, in general:

I am at a crossroads now. My job is so stressful and time-consuming that I don't have enough time for my family. Often I've consciously chosen to sacrifice some of my work performance in order to spend time with my kids, and I'm now suffering for it. H has been telecommuting, and he's applied for a job a couple states away. If he gets an offer, it's very likely I'll quit my job here - hopefully to find a job there, but even if I don't, we are seriously considering me giving up my job, my career, what I've been working toward my whole life. But life is too short to live the way I've been living.

I finally am feeling a little bit of peace. It's wonderful to know that God and my family love me no matter what goes on with my career. If I wasn't being reminded to put my trust in Jesus, I would be having a much rougher time than I am now. I'm a huge fan of security, I always want to know that I know where my paychecks are coming from. My job has (supposedly) a huge amount of job security. That's one reason I chose this career path. So usually this uncertainty would be driving me bonkers. Instead, I'm sort of excited about the adventure and the possibilities.

Joyce Meyers writes as if even women who aren't in some religious profession still have a "calling". I guess I knew that, but I hadn't thought in those terms in a loooong time. Right now I'm wanting to know how to tell what God wants us to do as far as jobs are concerned. If H gets this job, can I take that as a sign that it's in His will?

My gratitude list:

A husband who is faithful and forgiving, and takes care of so much with the household and taking care of the kids

Two happy, healthy, and forgiving kids

--I say "forgiving" because I'm not always the easiest person to live with, or the best wife and mother!

A mom and sister who are around to provide support

Job security

That we are getting out of debt

That we don't have any second mortgages or foreclosures

That I have a warm house to sleep in, food to eat, and clothes to wear

My salvation

My health

That each day I've been given another day to work to affect change in my life

That my H and I are actually living in the same place, as a family, and we may even find a way to be both working in the same region

Oh, gosh, something really funny happened just now. I was replying to the part of your post that talked about wanting to do everything "just right"... and I was saying how I want to write things that are deeply meaningful, not reactive... and how I'm trying to learn that I'm doing the best I can... and even if it's not...

...that's where I stopped... because I was going to say... even if it's not Pulitzer Prize worthy... except I couldn't remember how to spell Pulitzer (I have a learning disability in the area of spelling -and math, but in this case it was the spelling issue). Anyway, I had to open another window to go look up how to spell the word and when I closed I closed everything and lost all I'd written.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


Me, too... but it's pretty difficult, isn't it? Where do you think you got this idea that you had to be perfect? I got mine from my perfect family that hid a lot of dark secrets, but I digress. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, where did yours come from, do you think?


I don't know how old you are, but I'm what I call 49-and-holding. I actually AM 49 and smack in the middle of menopausal turmoil... I mention this because I'm feeling so out-of-body... and it has brought about a certain strange peaceful feeling. I think it's BECAUSE I can't trust my body to tell me the truth right now (unless you count the fact that it tells me I'm like a lot of other women). Where was I? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Oh yeah, the journey. I have spent a lot of years FIGHTING the journey. And here I am, on the brink of half a century and you know what? Whether I noticed or respected it at all, I HAVE been on a journey. I would like to EMBRACE IT instead of fighting it all the time. Does this make sense?


You're welcome, and I understand.

As I said above, I have been pretty anxious myself... about all sorts of things. It all comes down to fear, I think. I am afraid of how I'll look, what others will think, what God will think. God is the One Person who isn't judging me like that... but after having come from a fundamental church background that emphasized he11 and dammnation instead of love and forgiveness, it's certainly easy enough to believe that God is in His throne pointing His mighty finger at me.


I support you in doing whatever feels *right* to do! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Here's my little bit on how this book is touching me, in general:

Unlike you, I have passed my crossroads, but I certainly understand what it looks like when you're standing at the fork in the road. I chose a difficult road and one which I will regret (I'm guessing) for the rest of my life. My choices harmed many people amd I have spent the last eight years making amends for them. I no longer allow my choices to eat away at my soul but know the consequences are far reaching. I know I did the best I could at the time (my best, by the way, was flawed beyond recognition). I was, and am, a flawed human. God, thankfully, has accepted me into the family in spite of this... perhaps because of it.

Jayne, you are at a place that can be very frightening and life-changing. I remember the feeling well. As you process through this, please know that I will be here listening.

You said:
I loved reading that! I feel for you in the midst of the decision-making but you sound grounded and sort of (for lack of a better phrase) philosophical about the whole thing.


Me neither. I remember when I was going to church all the time I did a test that told you what your spiritual fruits/ talents were. I don't remember the exact verbage of it, but I was an Exorter. Even when things are spiritual, I'm usually pretty good at lifting people up. But for years I was in such a bad place myself that I could barely lift myself up. I'm just now beginning (again) to find the optimism I once had.


Isn't it funny that even though we are talking about this book, thinking about the things of God, I had forgotten to list this?

I like going to church but haven't gone consistently for a very long time - from before the "break" I had in 1999 (when everything crashed around me).

I truly believe that had I still been active in church it never would have happened - at least not with the devistation it did. Maybe I would have talked to someone, or God would have sent someone, or I would have been so moved by the Holy Spirit that I would have made better choices. Maybe that's niave.

It's a long story and not even important right now (why we left) but... sometimes I miss the community feeling I got... what I don't miss is the heavy, heavy Bible the preacher smacked us over the head with (figuretively speaking). Very negative, very punishing.

Anyway, chapter 7 - Waiting.

I used to have NO, as in zero patience. I still have some issues with it, but frankly, as I mentioned before, it more has to do with fear. For example, I have no problem with the waiting in a doctor's office, but if I think I may be missed, that I will be ignored or left behind... the FEAR kicks in and I get anxious.

Joyce mentions the feeling of deserving something... NOW. It's that whole immediate gratification thing that we American's are so famous for... even here in Canada (my H is Canadian) it happens. When I first got here it was a slower pace... there aren't even freeways here, just highways... but lately, I've noticed it is just as stressful as the States to drive on them. Perhaps moreso, because there are fewer lanes, trucks can go in the "fast lane" and everyone is in a hurry -- very dangerous.

I no longer feel that I deserve things. I want things, I need things, but deserve? No. Maybe it's my age.

She also talks about "My way or not at all"... I have also learned a lot about this, although it has been a struggle. My H and I had to begin all over (second marriage) and have been living in an apartment with no dishwasher (gasp)... and when he first started doing the dishes I cringed. When I wash dishes, I use bleach, scrub everything (okay, I'm a bit of a germaphobe) and there's NO food left on a utensil!!! I have found all SORTS of things stuck to spatulas and forks in the last seven years and I have learned that nobody will die from it, and most of all, it isn't worth making my H feel "less than" because he isn't doing it MY WAY.

On the other hand, my ex-husband just did something today that was in direct opposition to what I asked him to do (regarding our adult disabled son who lives with him). I was really irked!! I had the best way to handle the situation -- why didn't he do as I asked??? Just like when we were married (for 20 years)... blah, blah, blah.

So, indeed I do have some work to do. God certainly shined his searchlight (as Joyce calls it) on me right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

NB, my dear sister!

Or my own mirror self? Am I writing to myself???

Case in point:


Maybe I turned the last digit upside down by mistake... because I'm 46 and yes, going through at least pre- or peri- or whatever.


Ok, now it's starting to get spooky... I'm American, H is Canadian. His job is in Canada and for awhile we were living apart during the school year. I and the kids would live with him during summers and school breaks. Right now we're both in the U.S. and we'll probably spend the summer in Canada - unless H gets this other job.

Also, this is my 2nd marriage (his first) so I also have an ex-H.

Wow.

That's ironic, that you lost your post that was replying to my comments about not striving for perfection, due to trying to spell perfectly... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I'm sorry to have missed that. For future reference, I would've been ok with an imperfect spelling!

I need to get out of bed and start my day, I slept in due to a late night working last night. So I'm going to be satisfied with a short reply since I don't have time for a perfect reply. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll try to post more tonight, but I wanted to get this online in case it's your lunch break and you are online now. I hope I didn't miss it. I'm ready to read ch. 7 and comment on it later tonight, 'kay?

I look forward to reading your thoughts on chapter 7, Jayne... and also getting to know you better!

At 46 you're just a youngin' ... just wait until you turn 49!! LOL Kidding. But I'll tell you, I've spent half of the last six months being tested and retested and finding things about about the inside of my body that (while interesting to some) feels foreign to me. Did I mention that I'm also a hypochondriac? And you know what's that's based in, right? Fear, again. Sigh.

Anyway, neat that we have so much in common... really neat!!

Ok, I finally am able to "steal" a little time to post. I'm sorry, things are just so incredibly hectic right now... but this chapter applies so much to what is happening.

Like I said, H has applied for a job. He goes for an interview next week. Please pray that, if it's God's will, he will get an offer. It seems like it's God's will that we leave here.

This chapter talks about being stuck in the wilderness. I feel like that's what I'm experiencing. She talks about how our attitudes keep us stuck; how the Israelites felt their lack of progress was due to having too many enemies; and how here was always some "reason" why she wasn't progressing. I've fallen into that trap.

I want to learn to: have a Godly attitude, trusting God and doing what He shows me to do; wait for Him and not try to do it my way; and not be afraid of God's searchlight. "Pray for truth, cooperate with God in the attitude adjustments, and then rest in the knowledge that He loves you very much."

Some thoughts about chapter 9, which is also something I need right now:

NB, I saw on another thread you mentioned "Do it afraid!" That's in chapter 9. A whole lot of times I procrastinate out of fear.

There are some things I've been avoiding for years, projects that I need to finish, that I owe to other people to finish, and not finishing them is hurting myself. It's been so long now, I have a huge amount of fear even thinking about it. But the anticipation is usually worse than the actual action.

I am learning to "Do it afraid!"

Hi jayne,

I will be praying for your H. I hope whatever is suppose to happen (with regard to staying or leaving) is so obvious you can't miss it!

Yes, "Do it afraid" is pretty-much something I think about all the time. Like when I go to my doctor's visits (when I think I'm dying), at my job (when I make cold calls), setting safe boundaries (which still feels so foreign and scary to me).

Chapter 8 and 9 tie together for me because one is about the devil and 9 is about fear. Who else puts the fear into us?

I am generally fear-based person (who is learning, ever so slowly) to let go and trust God. Funny that I didn't realize this is where that saying came from: "Do it Afraid". I just turned to chapter 9 and saw it there with yellow highlighter. I guess I thought it was important enough, the first time around, to highlight it. Obviously, I remembered it!

Last month I sent a Mother's Journal to my oldest daughter (26) and she called me to say that she never knew some of the things I wrote about. It asked questions like about how you were as a kid, when you got married to their dad, when you found out you were pregnant... that kind of thing. So, when I was a kid I had NO FEAR. I was ADHD (still am) and part of the disorder is a big-time risk-taking. One thing that I'm VERY afraid of as an adult is snakes. You woudn't catch me even looking at them through glass. Creepy... scary. But when I was about 8 years old I went to my neighbours house, got his king snake, wrapped it around my neck and went home to show my mother -- who, uh, yeah, freaked out. I thought it was the height of hilarity. I'm just so amazed that the girl who did that was ME. At what point did I begin to fear? It's a good question, I think.

Ah well, anyway... must go.

I cut that off kinda weird. LOL I decided to come back and address what I meant.

Fear. Where did it come from? Are we born with it? Does experience or environment dictate who and what to be afraid of?

I may have mentioned a book called Praying with Katie by Don Holt. I honestly can't remember if I did or not. Katie is a cat and the book is absolutely beautiful, especially if you are a cat fanatic like me. The author talks about how Katie taught him to pray. How?, you may ask. Well, I wrote about it years ago (back in 2001) and I'd like to share a part of what I wrote then:

The subtitle of the book is "God, my Cat, and Me" and it is truly an AWESOME book.

The chapters read like any spiritual book trying to grasp the important:

Teach Us to Pray
Love
Judgment
Contemplation
Petition

You get the idea. In each chapter, Holt tells us how Katie teaches us to live... how to reach out to God... how to "Be still and know that"... God is God.

Allow me to share one quote with you, and it is the only one I will share, because I truly want everyone to BUY this book and cherish it - this quote is taken from the end of the book, after Katie has died:

We allowed Katie to live her life, to go out when she wanted to, even though we knew there were substantial risks from the traffic... There were large lawns in back... and we hoped that Katie would choose the grassland rather than the roadway. Or that, if she chose the road, she would be smart enough and quick enough to protect herself.

It didn't work out the way we hoped.

Is it that way for You, too Lord? You are aware of the dangers, yet You allow us to live our lives, hoping we will choose safe lawns to play in. Or at least, if we choose to explore dangerous roads, You hope we will be quick and careful in order that we might live."

Does this not bring you to tears, as it did to mine???

I feel that adding any more to this would tarnish it somehow, so I will leave you to your ponderings...

So, you see... years ago I read this little book and it changed my life.

How is it that I wasn't afraid and then I was -- of all sorts of things. Wasn't God still there, waiting to feed me, hold me and take care of me? Cats know they will be cared for... they don't worry about tomorrow. They live life moment by moment trusting that what they need will be provided when they need it. What an awesome concept, eh?

That IS awesome. Thanks for sharing about that book. I've never heard of it before, but I'll look for it. It should be easy to remember.

That analogy about free will and choosing the safe or dangerous path, what a touching way to put it.

It's very interesting that you are fearful about things now that you once were not fearful about at all. Did something happen? The thing with the neighbor's snake is a striking example.

Or maybe, we get more fearful as we get older, because we value security more than adventure, as a natural result of being older, having more at stake (children, homes, careers) and less energy? I'm realizing I live with more fear than I used to think. I wonder if that's new or if I've always had those fears.

Re. chapter 10, I often fall into the trap of leaving God out of the loop. The stuff that's going on now is very much reminding me that I can do nothing apart from God. Like Joyce says, I want to learn to accept God's grace in *all* things - to pray for what I think is needed, then turn it over to God to deal with in His way and in His timing. I think I'm getting better at that.

Now I want to remember that I can do all things through Jesus Christ who strengthens me.

Also: "God has a good plan for my life." - Jer. 29:11

Hi jayne,


Like so many other women I know... unfortunately... I was sexually molested at 9 years old, which I think may have had something to do with it. It was a woman who molested me and it wasn't violent. But that brings up all sorts of OTHER concerns/ questions (along with guilt and shame)... and is such a deep subject that I don't want to just gloss over it.

It's lunch time and almost over, at that. Please forgive me for not having more time to thoroughly discuss it. Monday and Wednesday nights are usually good times for me to be able to sit here and type... so on Monday I'll come back to this.


I COMPLETELY agree!! Oh gosh, I want to talk and type and visit with you!

Darn it!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I will be back, jayne. I have a lot to say about this and it ties in with what I've been studying about guilt and shame.

Have a great weekend!

Jayne,

I'm here... just wanted you to know. I'll be back when I can. I missed talking this last week. Glad to see things up and running again.

How are you?

I'm here, I missed the boards too! I wonder if that means I need to cut back. The new format is nice but I'm still getting used to it and learning how to use the features.

I'm on Day 12, where are you? I'm trying to apply what she says about not leaving God out of the loop, accepting the favor of God, and using words to bless.

We have a house full of guests right now, my mom, and H's brother and SIL and their two kids. It's hectic but it's great to have this opportunity to bond and for the cousins to bond.

Have fun with your family, Jayne!!!

I've wondered about cutting back for years, and have done it, actually, but not without a fight! I was so addicted to this place it was crazy. I still have my moments, like if I get involved in a conversation or thread, but it's nothing like it was in the olden days of new_beginning (the 1st, not to be confused with II). Seriously Jayne, in 1999 and the early 2000's I wrote over 10,000 posts. Yeah, uh, ahem.

About the book: Chapter 10 says something fairly profound, I think.

She talked about submission and trusting people... about her disappointments. She said that God's word told her:

"I'm not asking you to trust people. I'm asking you to trust Me."

I have spent many, many years trying to do things myself and/or submit to earthly authority (which anyone who has to work outside the home certainly has to do!)... I've read many books on submitting to our husband's (and on the one hand think it's a beautiful goal, yet on the other it annoys me because our husbands are only human and make mistakes. If I know something he doesn't and advise him, he does the opposite and we fall on our faces, that makes me NOT want to submit to him, you know?). Okay, I got issues with submission and trust. That's a whole 'nuther can o' worms, isn't it?

But I like the quote... to get back to the original thought...

Yes, I'm struggling with the concept of trusting God vs. relying on my own strength. These past few days of reading, I'm struggling with understanding how to achieve balance, because I know she can't mean to treat God like "Santa Claus" and just expect everything to be handed to you without you doing your part; or that God will always answer your prayers with a yes. I know she means something different, I'm just having problems seeing how the right way would look, as opposed to the wrong way.

I imagine all this presumes you are walking within the will of God... but then in Day 13 she says to not wait until you are perfect before you become a friend of God. She says being a friend of God gives you boldness to approach Him again and again to ask for things you know are yours. But for that to not look like treating God as a Santa Claus, that must mean your request is within God's will, right? Which means you shouldn't demand things of God... but I do see how we are to assume that we have power because we are friends of God.

I'm not disagreeing with what she's written, I'm just struggling to understand how to apply it, with balance. Maybe I go too far in the direction of assuming I have no power.

Could it be that for some things, God doesn't necessarily prefer one choice over another, but rather He can work with us regardless of which of, say, two or three options we choose?

Hey there, sister!


Get in line, not behind me, beside me. I'm there with you.


I completely agree. I struggle with balance in general... being a very... uh... colourful person... dramatic... 'out there'... not a lot of balance in that kind of personality. I live BIG, I love BIG, I believe BIG.

Okay, so... Santa Clause... I have always struggled with what it means to pray when asking for something specific because, like you (I think), I go from two extremes: Believing God will answer Yes, or believing God knows best and will answer No. Unfortunately, I don't often have a sense of which way it will go and I hesitate to get my hopes up, but then, on the other side (whew! this is a long run-on sentence!) don't want to limit God and know He wants the best for me.


Good grief, that IS confusing.

I mentioned I've been a Christian since I was 15 and have gone through various incarnations through relationship with God, Jesus, Churches, Other Christians, you name it. I feel like I'm almost always reaching out and just toughing the hem of His garment, which the Bible says is enough to heal, but I so often am left wanting, unsure, confused. Frankly, I don't like it one bit.

I feel out of the will of God right now, because I don't go to church. I know church isn't everything but it's something... and I think it's important. But then, (here I go again with the "but then agains")... I know very good, solid Christians who don't go to church at all. I know good Christians who weren't baptized, but the Church of Christ (where I was originally saved and baptized) says if you aren't baptized you're going to he11. I left the church because of dogma like that.

Sigh.


Maybe. Maybe we DON'T. 12 step programs talk a lot about us not having power over... addictions, of course, but it makes me wonder about ALL things.

Then belief systems like, say, The Secret come along and say you have ALL the power, simply because of the law of attraction, which God created.

For people like me (and perhaps you) it all gets soooo overwhelming, which I why I struggle to find simplicity in my faith.


Good question... and I bet you're right about some of the options we have.

My concern has been (for some time, actually) that I stand at forks in the road and choose the wrong way. I can look back over my life and see some real doozie choices and KNOW they weren't right... but they brought me to this point, to this discussion with you... so there is potential for good to come from even the worst decisions, right?

"An act of kindness; effort on one's behalf or interest"

That is the definition of "favor"...

And the subject of Chapter 11.

Joyce says: God's favor is available to us but that doesn't mean we partake...

Made me think of a buffet... there's a really nice, huge, yummy buffet here in town... $17.50 a plate... so much to choose from... the very few times we've been there (for special occasions, mostly)... we've overeaten... gorged... so much to choose from. But there are things we leave out, because we can't take everything, can we? So we take what we want.

I wonder... do I not WANT God's favor? 'Cause it is THERE for the taking. Why don't I TAKE it?

When we ask someone a favor, we are asking for something unearned...

... much like grace...

I love the concept of grace.

I have a very strong work ethic... I want nothing handed to me that I can work for... but what a blessing it is when I get a gift of something I needed at just the time I needed it...

God wants us to seek his favor... and accept it with joy.

For me, I am a bad receiver... I don't take gifts gracefully... maybe because I don't feel I deserve it...

And ASKING for favor seems... wrong. Why is that?

Something to think about...

Hello to MYSELF! I found the password to an "old name" of mine and am going to use this one exclusively. I'm still me, though!!!

I just want you to know I haven't forgotten about this thread or about the book --- but honestly, I put it down a few weeks ago and haven't picked it up much. As much as I'd said I didn't want to put any pressure on anyone (and that was TRUTHFUL) I do miss having someone to bounce this off of... so I kind of just stopped. I tend to go in fits and starts, so I know I will be back to this... just wanted to say so to anyone who dropped by... especially if you're thinking of buying the book yourself.

Hi new/Nyneve!

I'm so sorry, things got busy and I put the book down and forgot all about it! We have finals next week so I'll probably be able to check in over the weekend and then later next week, then I should be more regular again.

Although I haven't read lately, God's been doing something pretty awesome in my life the past couple weeks. I've wanted to tell someone, I don't know why I didn't think of sharing here!

Basically this semester started out absolutely incredibly rough... but the two people around me who probably are going through the most difficult times of anyone I know, they are the two people who have reached out to me and turned everything around.

And things have been timed perfectly, things like, I needed to talk to someone who is usually not available, and I turn a corner and there they are. Or, I get delayed going somewhere and as a result I run into someone who presents me with an opportunity, or tells me something I need to know, or something. Another, I was pressured into going to a women's luncheon that I really didn't want to go to, and that's where I connected with one of the two people I mentioned above. If I hadn't gone, my life would be quite different right now.

Also, several of the things I've read (before I stopped reading) have been just the thing to share with someone else.

I'm so sorry I haven't been a more consistent partner in reading. I'll try to stop by a couple times over the next few days, and by late next week everything should be at least manageable.

I hope you've been doing well!

Hey jayne!

Don't be sorry... I've done the same thing with the book.

I'm so glad that God is working in your life that way... as He often does, even when we don't realize it, eh?

I'd love to hear more about what's happening and I do want to get back to the book, too. I don't like when this happens... I get all excited and then lose interest for some reason. Part of my issue right now is that we're getting ready to move (YAY) and also that my H hasn't had to work really later as often. I have a couple of websites I visit and try to keep up with and have been woefully neglectful of them, too.

All that to say, I'm sorry, too!

You're moving? That's exciting! A long move, or just to another house in the same city?

We still don't know about H's job, apparently they are still waiting for a decision from the first person. If things don't work out then H is second. At this rate I'm not sure if I'm still enthusiastic about taking the job though.

I just read Chapter 13, Becoming God's Friend. Our church has a song we sing, a contemporary song, "I am a friend of God." I like it (even though I miss a lot of the traditional hymns).

I hadn't thought that I should be "bold" in approaching Him again and again. I figured that you should ask, but always say you want His will to be done, and if there's no answer then you should let it go. But she says: "Knowing that you are a friend of God causes you to be shamelessly persistent until you feel victory in your spirit." She also (again) says not to wait until you are perfect before doing this.

I guess there needs to be some balance, you must be confident that what you are asking for is within God's will, or you must ask for things in a way that God can answer "yes" in His own wisdom, right? Like, instead of asking for a particular job position, ask that He leads you to a better job or makes the current job better?

Does that make sense? What do you think, how much is it ok to ask God for something specific?

Which chapter are you on?

Jayne,

Forgive me.

We're moving, the book is packed. I wasn't paying attention and it's in a box. I can't believe it.

I haven't been on to write much because my H wasn't working overtime... and overtime is my internet time.

I am NOT ignoring you and I LOVE your question. When I can get back to write on it more, I will.

In a nutshell, though...

Everything I've ever read in the Bible has said that we MUST be specific in our requests.

I have so much more to say, and I will be back when I can...

No apologies necessary! Especially after all the times I took a long time responding.

Good luck with the move. Sounds exciting.

We may be moving too, H got the job offer! We don't know any details yet, we're going to a conference in New Zealand in a few days and the person making the offer will be at the conference too. We will probably get the details there. We're still not sure if something can be worked out for me too.

So right now I'm torn. I did go ahead and pray specifically that he'd get the job offer! My mom has been praying for that for a long time, she wants me out of this place. A lot about this place is toxic.

Now I guess I'll pray that we get a good enough offer to justify leaving the job security I have here, and uprooting the kids.

MANY MANY MANY CONGRATS!!!!!

This offer could open something for YOU, too? That would be GREAT!!

It's interesting that you prayed for this job specifically, and got a positive answer to your prayer... and your Mom has been praying for you to get out of there....

... yet ...

Now you're wondering if the offer is worth the loss of your job security and uprooting the kids...

Is it fear, do you think?

I can totally relate, by the way. For me, I just plain don't like NOT KNOWING what is going on.

For me, it's a little control problem and big trust problem... as in: I want to control and I don't trust anyone (not even God?).

What do you think, jayne?

PS: I'm so HAPPY for you. This could be the beginning of something really wonderful for your whole family. If you decide against it, it could still be a real learning experience. I personally don't do well with change but I know in my heart it is necessary for growth.

Quote: H got the job offer!

Oh jayne, I am so happy for you!! I have been praying it will happen. YAY!!!