I'm beginning a new thread for our study of the book Woman to Woman. Woman to Woman: Click Here to view.

If you would like to join us, please do. There are no leaders in this study... and no timelines to follow.

Just a discussion and reaching out for women. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

No need to do anything but jump in when you feel comfortable!

Have a great weekend and see you next week!! [color:"pink"] [/color] [color:"pink"] [/color]

Okay, well, I read through the first two (very short and easy reading) chapters and highlighted some things.

First chapter is about discontentment. She says four things lead to it: Greed, Fear, Lack of trust in God and Looking in the wrong places. The way to conquor it: Gratitude and thanksgiving. I know this is true and while important, I want to focus on something she said in the second chapter.

Chapter two is about struggling with yourself. She asks us to think about when we were first saved. And you know what? I did that and it's what I'd like to write about today.

My parents were not religious. My mom was spiritual, dad was raised Southern Baptist and had bad memories of the "Bible Thumpers". I was a fearless teen and went out on my own to find who God was. I found Him at the Church of Christ Bible Camp. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It was 1974. I was 15 years old.

I have never stopped believing in God but have moved away (far, far away) from organized religion. That's a long story that's perhaps better suited for another day.

One thing that Joyce says that confused me is that the Holy Spirit walks alongside us. I thought the Holy Spirit was that still, small voice INSIDE us? Any thoughts on this?

Anyone else begin the book?

Hello...

I have not read this book but I just wanted to comment and tell you that I love Joyce... she is such an awesome communicator and she really lifts my spirits, I do have several of her books...might have to get this one and join in!!!

Hi NBII, I've ordered the book, I haven't gotten it yet...

So I haven't read the book yet, but I found what you wrote about the Holy Spirit interesting. IIRC, somewhere Jesus describes the Holy Spirit as the Comforter... I think the Holy Spirit is described other ways also... it may be interesting to look up all the references. I may do that after dinner tonight if I have time.

My personal opinion regarding viewing the Holy Spirit as walking beside us vs. being the still small voice inside us, is that *where* you picture it coming from is your own personal choice. I'm saying that having not read the stuff you are referring to, and I'm not basing this on anything, it's just my own personal opinion.

Any other thoughts?

willlovehim4ever, yes, you are more than welcome! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

jayne, I understand what you're saying... I actually did a very (very) short study and found this: The Holy Spirit dwells inside every Christian, each one's body being His temple (1 Corinthians 3:16). I would love to discuss this more!

Chapter 3 of Joyce's book is about something I am very familiar with: Worrying (Anxiety) and Prayer. It's the anxiety that I'm most familiar with because I have an anxiety disorder - although I don't like labels.

I love what Joyce says: "When our minds are constantly on ourselves, our problems, and our personal needs, we become ineffective and powerless."

Now I know a thing or two about this because I spent far too many years stuck inside myself, my problems. I did pray... and it did help me "feel" better... but it didn't give me peace. I wanted it sooooo bad!

She suggests asking the Lord to show us every time we are TAKING ON care instead of CASTING IT OFF. I'm going to do this! Can you imagine if we didn't have to worry about things anymore?

I'm not going deeply into what I'm reading but giving a bit of a synopsis and thoughts... when you guys get the book, I'll backtrack with you and discuss. In the meantime, maybe one of Joyce's chapters will touch someone and they will join us... so... on to Chapter 4!

Title: You are a work in progress

Ain't that the truth? She says that many women she knows don't like themselves (not surprising!).

God never intended us to feel bad about ourselves. And if God truly knows us and loves us then why shouldn't we love ourselves? (She cites Jeremiah 1:5 which says: Before I formed you in the womb I knew and approved of you [as my chosen instrument])"... That verse is interesting to me. I obviously believe in God and creation... but do I believe that God honestly knew me at conception? Who was I at conception? I know a "soul" but... a personality?... what? What do you think?

At the end of the chapter, she mentioned how we (as women) think that people (all people) are overly concerned with our performance. I wondered if she meant as women, as mothers, as employees, as church members or all of those? She suggests that we believe that God feels the same way! Do you think that? I have always felt that in spite of many things, God has never given up on me. I wonder what that means about me? Maybe I have more self-worth that I realize? Interesting.

Wow, those are some great ideas. I can visualize "casting off" vs. "taking on". That's a helpful way to look at it.

I hope my book arrives soon! I don't know how long the shipping was supposed to take.

Re. the Holy Spirit: I haven't had time yet to look this up, but I think the Holy Spirit is described somewhere as the Comforter, and the, not sure what word is used but something like the explainer or interpreter?

Here's a couple things I found:

Psalm 51:10-12
"Create in me a pure heart, O God,
and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.
Restore to me the joy of your salvation
and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me."

I love verse 12. When I was in high school our choir had a song we sang that went "Restore to me the joy of my salvation."

This is the passage I was thinking of:
John 14:15-27
15If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?"
23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
25"All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."

Yes, I've certainly heard the Holy Spirit called the Comforter.

Here's some verses I found:

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Gal 4:6 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Interesting, eh?

Chapter 5

Well, this chapter is interesting to me for one particular reason: She says that if we're feeling "Frazzled, Frantic, and Frustrated" we need to "Do Something About It!"

It's the "Do Something About It" that interests me, because I have often been confused about how much God really has his hand in my life and how much my own hand leads the way.

She says we need to ask God to help us make the changes we need to make in order to get our lives back on track. But, WE need to do the work!

She mentions the dreaded word "Should" and tells us not to give into what the world thinks we should do.

It's hard, though, when the reality is that we have obligations we can't get out of... sure, if you've overextended yourself you can choose not to lead the girl scout troup this year, but what if the obligations are something more substantial? What if it's an aging parent, a disabled child, a health crisis? I have found it very, VERY difficult to 'let go and let God' handle it... and I don't think that's what she's saying anyway...

I know God is not the author of confusion so I guess I'll just keep pressing on to find out what the truth of the matter is...

If the answer is: Just do it... is the question: How can I make my life better?

Before I write today I want to explain something about this book. It is really more like a devotional - as in: The chapters are very short (1-3 pages) and concise. So there will be a LOT to discuss. Anyone else get the book yet?

Chapter 6 has a funny title: Are you always on your mind? It reminds me of that song... Willie Nelson... Elvis... both sang it... "You were always on my mind"... and if you substitute it with "I am always on my mind"... it's just kind of comical.

She talks of me-ism, which we've heard a whole bunch of times, even here at MB.

After infidelity it's all about ME - whether you're the WS or BS. The WS mindset is selfish to begin with... the BS mindset is going to be in protection mode for quite some time...

But later on, when the WS becomes a former WS (FWS) and the BS isn't feeling so raw... it is then that I think we have to be very careful not to go into being a perpetual victim. I know of what I speak, having been both a BS (first) and then many years later a WS. Both happened years and years ago but you never forget, do you? And you shouldn't...

It also happens in other aspects of our lives, of course. I could tell long stories about me, but isn't the point to take our minds OFF ourselves? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Joyce says we need to be delivered from being the center of our lives and put God there.

Hi NB,

I haven't forgotten ya, I just still haven't received my book! I'm getting worried. I surfed around and ordered the cheapest one I could find, not the link you provided. I'm sorry... I saved about $1.60 and now I don't know if I'll even get the book at all. I sent them email last week which they haven't answered.

I wish I'd just ordered from the link you gave.

My book arrived! Actually it may have arrived several days ago and I just didn't realize - I was expecting it to come to the door, via Fedex or UPS. It was in the mailbox, which we didn't check for several days because we've had the flu or something. But it's here now, and I am grateful!

I want to apologize for the bad thoughts I was having about the company I bought it from.

I've read the Intro and Ch. 1.


I like how she defines contentment. She specifically says it is NOT being satisfied to the point of not working for change, but rather, being satisfied to the point where you aren't anxious or disturbed. I like this.

Also, she talks about how her H once said he realized he could never satisfy her so he was going to stop working so hard. That really struck me. I wonder if my H has thought that.

I want to:
- learn to derive my satisfaction from Christ Jesus
- replace greed and fear with trust in Him
- close destructive doors of discontentment through gratitude and thanksgiving
- enjoy my everyday life NOW instead of waiting for it to be perfect.

This is powerful stuff.

One thing I've been practicing is in the mornings, reciting a "grateful" list - all the things I'm grateful or thankful for. I'm surprised at the effect that's had on my attitude.

NB, thank you for suggesting this book!

You're welcome, jayne. I really like what this woman has to say! And I mentioned elsewhere that I saw her in person in the early 90's at a Woman's Retreat. She was very, very funny and personable, just like she seems.

I like the gratitude list, too and actually put together a gratitude book about four years ago. I was using it too, but uh, yeah, I stopped. I wonder what THAT'S about? I am so grateful for so much... maybe I need to do what you're doing and just recite it... I like to write though... but... so often don't find the time. Hmmm...

I'll wait for you to catch up to me and then we'll be on the same page, so to speak (pun intended). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I am not reading ahead, I've stopped.

Aw, thanks for waiting, NB! Now I feel obliged...

I'm feeling stressed and over-extended right now so I don't have a lot of time, but I'll catch up as fast as I can. I'm glad the chapters are shot, they really are like devotions so I'm reading them as my morning devotion. I read ch. 2 this morning. It was what I needed for today. I've been feeling the way she describes - feeling guilty, wanting to give up. The devil HAS been telling me I'm a failure!

Today I was especially helped by remembering to not lose hope or grow weary (Gal. 6:9); that God loves me and is working on me; that He corrects me out of His love for me, and He is transforming me to His will.

I see what you were saying, about her discussion of the Holy Spirit. One thing I was confused about - she says to follow the Holy Spirit by following our heart - not our head or our feelings. I would've thought my heart and my feelings were the same thing.

Hi jayne,

Remember what I said?
Please do NOT feel pressured in ANY way. I normally don't get the chance to write except for lunch times... 'cause we don't have the internet at home. There are reasons we want to have it - like this study... but...

The reasons we got rid of the internet were partly to do with the computer we have (long story, old computer, dial-up AOL 4.0 - you get the picture)... but the other part, the bigger part is that we CHOOSE not to have the internet, which is a really short story: I get addicted. That's the short part. The longer part is that my H and I POJA'd it and decided that for us, the time we spent on it and away from each other was too precious.

So, again, don't feel obliged or pressured or anything else, except maybe excited to see what God has in store for us. God's timing... not ours. Okay?

Just dropping by to say that I've been thinking about this book, about her message... about worth and gratitude. While I'm waiting for anyone else to join... allow me to share my gratitudes:

A husband who adores me

Children who love and respect me (and anyone who knows my story knows how precious this is)

My cat, the spoiled rotten fat furry sweetheart!

A job I love

A roof over my head

A car that isn't on its last legs

My health (at my tender age there are a few issues, but for the most part I am healthy)

Winter's almost over!

Two really close women friends I can count on any time of the day or night

My friends, acquaintances, co-workers, bosses, clients and even sometimes strangers who touch my life.

That God never gave up on me!!

What a wonderful idea, to post a gratitude list here!

I want to let you know that I've read through ch. 6 and even peaked ahead, but was completely swamped for over a week and didn't have time to come post. Well, also I tend to procrastinate things if I think I'll have time to do them "better" later - and I felt that I "should" write a lot of details - for example, I'd like to post the verse or phrase from each chapter that really spoke to me. Because each day seemed to have just the phrase or verse I needed for that day. (And I've been going through some rough days lately.) Since I didn't have time to go back through the chapters and write all that, well, I procrastinated...

I'm trying to learn to not do that; to not procrastinate with the idea I'll achieve perfection if I wait. It's better to jump in and do. Like she says (in ch. 3? See, I'm not going to stop and look it up! Let the imperfection stay!) it is ok to not be perfect. I don't have to have already arrived. It's ok to enjoy the journey.

I want to thank you for recommending this book. Really, each day seemed to say just what I needed - I've been feeling frazzled, I've been attacked by feelings of not performing perfectly, I've been too busy with urgent things to do the important things, I've been worried and anxious and trying to fix things myself without placing my faith in God.

Tonight I started re-reading the chapters, with the idea that I'd post how each chapter spoke to me. I'm up to ch. 6, which I think is where you'd stopped. I've decided to embrace not doing it perfectly - writing a summary of how each ch. spoke to me - and just coming here to post!

You said you'd stopped at ch. 6, so I'll wait to hear from you before reading any further.

Just a little bit on how this book is touching me, in general:

I am at a crossroads now. My job is so stressful and time-consuming that I don't have enough time for my family. Often I've consciously chosen to sacrifice some of my work performance in order to spend time with my kids, and I'm now suffering for it. H has been telecommuting, and he's applied for a job a couple states away. If he gets an offer, it's very likely I'll quit my job here - hopefully to find a job there, but even if I don't, we are seriously considering me giving up my job, my career, what I've been working toward my whole life. But life is too short to live the way I've been living.

I finally am feeling a little bit of peace. It's wonderful to know that God and my family love me no matter what goes on with my career. If I wasn't being reminded to put my trust in Jesus, I would be having a much rougher time than I am now. I'm a huge fan of security, I always want to know that I know where my paychecks are coming from. My job has (supposedly) a huge amount of job security. That's one reason I chose this career path. So usually this uncertainty would be driving me bonkers. Instead, I'm sort of excited about the adventure and the possibilities.

Joyce Meyers writes as if even women who aren't in some religious profession still have a "calling". I guess I knew that, but I hadn't thought in those terms in a loooong time. Right now I'm wanting to know how to tell what God wants us to do as far as jobs are concerned. If H gets this job, can I take that as a sign that it's in His will?

My gratitude list:

A husband who is faithful and forgiving, and takes care of so much with the household and taking care of the kids

Two happy, healthy, and forgiving kids

--I say "forgiving" because I'm not always the easiest person to live with, or the best wife and mother!

A mom and sister who are around to provide support

Job security

That we are getting out of debt

That we don't have any second mortgages or foreclosures

That I have a warm house to sleep in, food to eat, and clothes to wear

My salvation

My health

That each day I've been given another day to work to affect change in my life

That my H and I are actually living in the same place, as a family, and we may even find a way to be both working in the same region

Oh, gosh, something really funny happened just now. I was replying to the part of your post that talked about wanting to do everything "just right"... and I was saying how I want to write things that are deeply meaningful, not reactive... and how I'm trying to learn that I'm doing the best I can... and even if it's not...

...that's where I stopped... because I was going to say... even if it's not Pulitzer Prize worthy... except I couldn't remember how to spell Pulitzer (I have a learning disability in the area of spelling -and math, but in this case it was the spelling issue). Anyway, I had to open another window to go look up how to spell the word and when I closed I closed everything and lost all I'd written.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


Me, too... but it's pretty difficult, isn't it? Where do you think you got this idea that you had to be perfect? I got mine from my perfect family that hid a lot of dark secrets, but I digress. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, where did yours come from, do you think?


I don't know how old you are, but I'm what I call 49-and-holding. I actually AM 49 and smack in the middle of menopausal turmoil... I mention this because I'm feeling so out-of-body... and it has brought about a certain strange peaceful feeling. I think it's BECAUSE I can't trust my body to tell me the truth right now (unless you count the fact that it tells me I'm like a lot of other women). Where was I? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Oh yeah, the journey. I have spent a lot of years FIGHTING the journey. And here I am, on the brink of half a century and you know what? Whether I noticed or respected it at all, I HAVE been on a journey. I would like to EMBRACE IT instead of fighting it all the time. Does this make sense?


You're welcome, and I understand.

As I said above, I have been pretty anxious myself... about all sorts of things. It all comes down to fear, I think. I am afraid of how I'll look, what others will think, what God will think. God is the One Person who isn't judging me like that... but after having come from a fundamental church background that emphasized he11 and dammnation instead of love and forgiveness, it's certainly easy enough to believe that God is in His throne pointing His mighty finger at me.


I support you in doing whatever feels *right* to do! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Here's my little bit on how this book is touching me, in general:

Unlike you, I have passed my crossroads, but I certainly understand what it looks like when you're standing at the fork in the road. I chose a difficult road and one which I will regret (I'm guessing) for the rest of my life. My choices harmed many people amd I have spent the last eight years making amends for them. I no longer allow my choices to eat away at my soul but know the consequences are far reaching. I know I did the best I could at the time (my best, by the way, was flawed beyond recognition). I was, and am, a flawed human. God, thankfully, has accepted me into the family in spite of this... perhaps because of it.

Jayne, you are at a place that can be very frightening and life-changing. I remember the feeling well. As you process through this, please know that I will be here listening.

You said:
I loved reading that! I feel for you in the midst of the decision-making but you sound grounded and sort of (for lack of a better phrase) philosophical about the whole thing.


Me neither. I remember when I was going to church all the time I did a test that told you what your spiritual fruits/ talents were. I don't remember the exact verbage of it, but I was an Exorter. Even when things are spiritual, I'm usually pretty good at lifting people up. But for years I was in such a bad place myself that I could barely lift myself up. I'm just now beginning (again) to find the optimism I once had.


Isn't it funny that even though we are talking about this book, thinking about the things of God, I had forgotten to list this?

I like going to church but haven't gone consistently for a very long time - from before the "break" I had in 1999 (when everything crashed around me).

I truly believe that had I still been active in church it never would have happened - at least not with the devistation it did. Maybe I would have talked to someone, or God would have sent someone, or I would have been so moved by the Holy Spirit that I would have made better choices. Maybe that's niave.

It's a long story and not even important right now (why we left) but... sometimes I miss the community feeling I got... what I don't miss is the heavy, heavy Bible the preacher smacked us over the head with (figuretively speaking). Very negative, very punishing.

Anyway, chapter 7 - Waiting.

I used to have NO, as in zero patience. I still have some issues with it, but frankly, as I mentioned before, it more has to do with fear. For example, I have no problem with the waiting in a doctor's office, but if I think I may be missed, that I will be ignored or left behind... the FEAR kicks in and I get anxious.

Joyce mentions the feeling of deserving something... NOW. It's that whole immediate gratification thing that we American's are so famous for... even here in Canada (my H is Canadian) it happens. When I first got here it was a slower pace... there aren't even freeways here, just highways... but lately, I've noticed it is just as stressful as the States to drive on them. Perhaps moreso, because there are fewer lanes, trucks can go in the "fast lane" and everyone is in a hurry -- very dangerous.

I no longer feel that I deserve things. I want things, I need things, but deserve? No. Maybe it's my age.

She also talks about "My way or not at all"... I have also learned a lot about this, although it has been a struggle. My H and I had to begin all over (second marriage) and have been living in an apartment with no dishwasher (gasp)... and when he first started doing the dishes I cringed. When I wash dishes, I use bleach, scrub everything (okay, I'm a bit of a germaphobe) and there's NO food left on a utensil!!! I have found all SORTS of things stuck to spatulas and forks in the last seven years and I have learned that nobody will die from it, and most of all, it isn't worth making my H feel "less than" because he isn't doing it MY WAY.

On the other hand, my ex-husband just did something today that was in direct opposition to what I asked him to do (regarding our adult disabled son who lives with him). I was really irked!! I had the best way to handle the situation -- why didn't he do as I asked??? Just like when we were married (for 20 years)... blah, blah, blah.

So, indeed I do have some work to do. God certainly shined his searchlight (as Joyce calls it) on me right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

NB, my dear sister!

Or my own mirror self? Am I writing to myself???

Case in point:


Maybe I turned the last digit upside down by mistake... because I'm 46 and yes, going through at least pre- or peri- or whatever.


Ok, now it's starting to get spooky... I'm American, H is Canadian. His job is in Canada and for awhile we were living apart during the school year. I and the kids would live with him during summers and school breaks. Right now we're both in the U.S. and we'll probably spend the summer in Canada - unless H gets this other job.

Also, this is my 2nd marriage (his first) so I also have an ex-H.

Wow.

That's ironic, that you lost your post that was replying to my comments about not striving for perfection, due to trying to spell perfectly... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I'm sorry to have missed that. For future reference, I would've been ok with an imperfect spelling!

I need to get out of bed and start my day, I slept in due to a late night working last night. So I'm going to be satisfied with a short reply since I don't have time for a perfect reply. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll try to post more tonight, but I wanted to get this online in case it's your lunch break and you are online now. I hope I didn't miss it. I'm ready to read ch. 7 and comment on it later tonight, 'kay?

I look forward to reading your thoughts on chapter 7, Jayne... and also getting to know you better!

At 46 you're just a youngin' ... just wait until you turn 49!! LOL Kidding. But I'll tell you, I've spent half of the last six months being tested and retested and finding things about about the inside of my body that (while interesting to some) feels foreign to me. Did I mention that I'm also a hypochondriac? And you know what's that's based in, right? Fear, again. Sigh.

Anyway, neat that we have so much in common... really neat!!