QNL
Thanks for posting. It really means alot to me.

Your situation sounds a lot like mine.

You sound like someone I really can relate to. Do you know who Joe and Charlie are?



What I was implying here is that the two-active addictions alcoholism and an A had my gauges all off kilter. I know from my part how cunning baffeling and powerful alcohol is to me. I being sober and caught up in her alcoholism was thrown totally off with the mixture of the two. I think w/o the active alcoholism the guages would have possibly been clearer to read.
Does that make sense?

I would like your support and I will try to catch up on your thread.


Rocky

Nesre,

I don't know about recovering addict first, recover marriage second senario, I am sure there are as alcohol and drugs abuse is so prevelant.

I have seen stories where a recovering addict engaged in an A and the marriage was recovered, I think Pep is one of them.

In my case my FWH was boarderline alcoholic for many years. I begged, pleaded, never threatened but maybe should have. He was hospitalized a couple of times with it or due to risky behavior bc of over drinking. I am sure that it contributed to his first A. It was the health problems that made him stop, he only drinks very occassionally and never over drinks. That is why I say boarderline bc I don't think that an alcoholic can stop drinking once they start. However, the risky behavior of an alcoholic translates easily to the risky behavior of someone in an A. At least those that came out the other side of A's (waywards) describe it like an addiction.

Me, I drank until my early 20's and very rarely until his A. Not a good coping strategy for that or anything really.

It is by prayer and some growing up on my part that helps. And I want to be a positive example to my sons.

I would classify my M as recovering, not recovered.

Good luck in your journey,

nab

Thanks for the hope. I deeply appreciated what you wrote.

I think in the back of my mind I want this perfect MB M
at some point down the road.

Probably not gonna happen but something real good may work.





Maybe time and practice will help to get me to that point.

Thats probably where I am at now. I try to walk that fine line but unfortunately fall off at times.

I will be reading your thread in the near future.
Thanks again


Rocky

Not exactly, but close.
My H was drinking during his A. In fact, his drinking increased a LOT during the last 6 months of his A.

He stopped drinking the day after our "D-day".
He remained a dry drunk for awhile.
Our MC told me (in private) that in his experience, it was harder to recover after infidelity if one spouse is a dry drunk. Dry drunks have no way to "medicate" their overwhelming anxiety, they've cut themselves off from their liquid "medication". PLUS, dry drunks have not learned life coping skills and are usually in an arrested state of development - coping skills very much like a younger teenager. Very emotional and moody (understatement).

I told my dear H that unless he went to AA, I was [color:"red"]O V E R[/color] and [color:"red"]O U T[/color].

I do not make threats. I do not say things I do not mean. He knows this.

He reluctantly went to AA.
Then one day, it 'clicked' .... and he started to work the steps.
He's such an amazing man now.
I admire him and respect him so very much .... oh, and love? ~~~> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> in every position possible for people our age ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Pep,

Thanks for the clarity, I am not familiar with the term "dry drunk". Explains two of my siblings that stopped drinking but haven't addressed some of their issues.

So glad to see that Mr. Pep is one of the 10% that is recovering.

LOL on the last statement!

Hope I can get to that point!!

Thanks for posting--I hope it all "clicks" for W soon.
If I can ask-How long b-4 it clicked?

Your post gives me hope

Thanks

Rocky

I know this thread is about alcohol addiction, but does anyone know if the lessons learned/methods of recovery also apply to sex addiction?

To nesre: I really like your posts and advice to others here; I'm glad you started a thread. Thank you for joining and helping others here as you seek clarity for yourself. I wish you all the best in your marriage recovery!

~Saturn

Nab

Thanks for posting. It really helps to see where other people are at in all this mess.

I would just like to add that it aint pretty when a dry drunk realizes where they are at but continues to do the same things over and over.



I wish you well. Hope to catch up on the threads and catch yours.

Thanks

Rocky

Mel


Thanks for your response.

I am finding now that there is hope. Maybe slim but hope is still hope. It seems more stories keep coming.

I chose to be a voluntary victim by letting my alcoholic WW back into the house after a 6 mo. seperation in 2004. I would not recommend it to anyone.
By then I was heavy into Al-Anon and AA.
The guys on the link below plus all the support around me broke the dry drunk and supported me.
I cried like a baby when I got to the third step


.


http://www.xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php?action=category&id=13

These are short mp3's and I know in the first or second one the answer to the low %'s in alcoholism recovery (OPINION)
is answered.

After my spritual awakening the only reason I chose that role was to try to get my W into a treatment program. There was very little left of the M. I set my own time limit at 1/1/07. She went into treatment 12/06. At this point still a dry drunk. She even has realized this in the past week or so and has talked about it so I hope it leads her to dig further into recovery.

I am very cautious to talk about M relationship.
Maybe soon it will "click".

Mel, I want to thank you. After lurking for a long time I have watched time after time where you have jumped into situations and been a voice of reason. In situations where bounderies need to be set I now think-What would be in between-not extreme-still get the goal accomplished. What exactly do I need for me to make this work?

YOU ARE ONE OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD THAT HAVE HELPED ME GET TO THAT POINT IN MY LIFE.

A thousand thank you's


Rocky

Yes, I believe this to be true as well -- but I think it's true for many drunks in general (not just dry drunks) -- especially when they started drinking in their teens. You don't see this point addressed very often, but it makes a lot of sense when you really think about it.

LP

Saturn Rising



I do not understand sex addiction what so ever but I googled in s addiction and the first one that popped up "works the 12 steps"

http://www.sexaa.org/

To me-JMO-if a person truly works the steps to the best of their ability then some type of spritual awakening will occur. It may be an educational awakening-"not bright lights or stars" but could be a slow awakening or several small epiphanies.-- moments of clarity and growth about themselves

JMO -everthing we are talking about could pertain to recovering w/sex addicts and M.

This thread is about Alcoholism/addiction but all the same "rules" (how the addiction works) pretty much apply about any addiction. The difference is that I do not understand gambeling/shopping/food/sex addiction-To my brain those things don't matter or I seem to have common sense when it comes to them


BUT alcohol still after 21 years

Out of the blue talks to me-

Says

Its been such a long time -it would be OK just once
It will be different this time
You desrve it
You earned it
You can always quit again
NOBODY NEEDS TO KNOW

Thats why a support system is so important. Remember-Actions speak louder than any words when it comes to any type of recovery.

Maybe give the website a look

Hope it helps. REMEMBER JMO

Rocky

Thank you Rocky!

I have joined an S-Anon group (like Al-anon) and I'm learning slowly. I have co-dependent tendencies, that's for sure! I just don't know if everything that can be said for alcohol addiction can be translated to my husband's situation.

Like:
*MB program doesn't work for addicts
*Addicts can't love anyone, just their addiction
*Addicts have to go through recovery alone: spouses can't really help them (otherwise they are "codependent")
etc.

Thank you again Rocky and my best wishes for you and your family!
~Saturn

SaturnRising

Sorry I did not see this earlier.


Good for you. How long ago?


I have never been involved in their program but when a person has co-dependant tendincies I think it pretty much works all the same around the addicted person.

For alcoholics they estimate approximately 8 people are affected by the addicted person.



Plan A is a disaster for using addict and emotionally drains the spouse.
If SA-non is like al-anon then we have to become emotionally detached at times to protect ourselves from the behaviors.



I don't know if I totally agree with all of this. I know my W loved me even though she was sick. When she was her better self she was capable of showing love.
The addiction was so strong though that any empathy to the people surrounding her was lost when the use was started.
It is a sick kind of love. Not exactly a healthy love. [
When push came to shove the addiction won out. It blinds the person from seeing or feeling whats going on around them.



Addicts have to do all the work in recovery. A spouse can support them if they chose to. I would say at this time you are supporting the recovery the best you can w/your group.
Learning new ways to protect yourself emotionally may help to heal or your M.

I'm sorry I haven't read your thread yet so I may be talking out of line here.

I will try to catch your thread soon. Some get so long on here it takes a while.

I wish you the best
added
Went back and read your posts only. I see........


Rocky

Hi again Rocky!

I don't want to hijack your thread! You are very kind.

You asked about my thread- I have several, and they probably don't make sense because my story keeps changing!

Short version:
I had an online affair (emotional, not sexual) with an ex-boyfriend. I found MB, ended the affair, and started posting here.

I learned better communication techniques using the MB program; tried them out on my husband and they worked. He confessed to several physical affairs. I freaked!

We started marriage counseling and both of us posted here for a while. After a year, I noticed that our marriage was still the same (not better). He was still distant and still lying to me.

Last month he confessed that he's SA. Our counselor told us we needed to find a new therapist with a background in addiction. We did that, I started reading, and I began S-Anon meetings a few weeks ago.

This is all very new to me, which is why I was interested in your thread and have been helped immensely by your posts to Julie. Thank you again for coming here and for your advice. I wish you the best!

~Saturn

Since you didn't receive the props you deserve from the person who should have given them, I will tell you myself....GREAT JOB on RIM's thread. You took so much time and effort putting that all together! You have a big, generous heart of GOLD! We are lucky to have you on this site.

THANK YOU NESRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nesre...did you see my post to you? Thought you may have missed it over the weekend..?

Resonance

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. I did see it earlier but then work gets in the way of my personal stuff.
Also was watching shocked and sad-falling down the board
May want to check it out.

Thanks for the compliment. I wish I could do more but now I think its best just to sit back. For a long time nobody could help me........so I understand??????

She changed her name to tea tea at some point over the w-e

I've got nasty old dial up at home and it takes me about 15 minutes just to get to the site so I stay off it at home.

Thanks again

Rocky

SHORT STORY


But even after sobriety is achieved, it's an uphill battle for the couple. The spouses of alcoholics are usually so relieved when treatment is successful that they often think their marital troubles are over. It's true, addiction makes it impossible to resolve marital conflicts. But sobriety itself doesn't solve them -- it simply makes them solvable. Once addiction is overcome, a couple is faced with the legions of other Love Busters that were ignored in the shadow of addiction or were created by addiction


Two recovering alcoholics under one roof.

We are the couple from the LoveBusters-book only ours has been spread out over a 25 year M.

Lots of LB’s DJ’s AO fights and aurguments back and forth.

ME-One-night-stands during the two years of drinking. (1984-1986) I have had problems w/alcohol since age 14 with on/off stretches of sobriety)
WW 1987
I have been sober since 1986-Dry drunk until 2003-Started going to Al-Anon-(To save the M and to get W to quit drinking)
Thank God the group encourage me to go back and get my own sobriety in order…
With AA.
I work the 12 steps to the best of my ability following the Big Book and still attend
Al-Anon occasionally..

HER
WW 1985-1986?
Alcohol treatment 1988
10 years of sobriety
1999-Relapse w/alcohol
2004-2005?? WW-won’t discuss details-just want to move on
12/2006-Alcohol treatment-Still sober to date. Still won’t discuss details-just wants to move on

EXTREMELY DYSFUNCTIONAL AT TIMES IN THE PAST .-Getting better now.

I ended up lurking on this board for 4 years on and off.

I have read the books HNHN SAA LB’s and I do have a good concept of MB’s principles. Have not always applied them well.

At this point I need the advice of this board. She has approximately 14 months of sobriety.

As she has progressed with her recovery from alcoholism it becomes more apparent that a true WW is buried in all the crap but the A is over..
I have had a lot of time to read over the winter and have followed several new and old threads with all the side trails over the past few weeks. It really helped to educate me

She has tried to re-write some history-This is hard b/c going back to my own alcoholism and A’s my memory is very foggy as to details
I have heard the ILYBINILWY-several times although not lately
We got M too young-
I never loved you-
We should D and just be friends-but live together??!!??
Infatuation is love in her world-That’s what she desires now from me
Sweeping it all under the rug?

If what she has said is true about the A then its been over for about two years. I have “snooped” after excellent opportunities for her and found nothing. I truly believe the A has been dead for some time.

With the mixture of alcoholism, A and time span I know I missed opportunities that may have helped work for us.

My question is where do I pick up and proceed from now?

Do I pick apart each problem or LB daily and post about it?

I would really appreciate some feedback.

My goal is to try to Aproof this M. I will never go through what I have been through in the past again.
I don’t know with our situation if we can achieve the perfect MB’s M but I would at least like to try to get to a point where M is rewarding for both for us.


Rocky

Me 49 –
1-NS-? Stray dog 1985-1986
WW 1987
A/CD treatment 8/1986
DS 24
DD 14
Married 25 yrs
WW 43
EA/PA –1986/1987 A Ended after 1 ½ yr seperation-NC w/OM for 4 months-Me N/C w/OW for 3 mo after W asked me to give her up
Mutual agreement to get back together
A/CD treatment 1988
EA/PA 2004?—10/2006? Mixed w/alcohol relapse
Treatment 12/06 W-Just wants to leave A in the past-“WE” know what to do
Me-Houston-We have a problem (we need to work on) here

Need help!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alcoholic wife
Been through treatment seven times.

I have a good concept of the MB principles

The last discussion we had b4 she left treatment in DEC 2006 was no more drinking and no more A's. I am 99% sure she stayed sober and realatively sure she stayed away from [censored]. They were drinking buds.(Quite a bit more goin on than just drinkin)

Her sobriety has not gone all that well. Basically she is a dry drunk. There is no fun in sobriety---ANYWHERE>

M has been stalled and in one of my last posts I came to the conclusion the WW is still in there. I hate it when I am right.

Last night I stayed late in town for a meeting. Come home and there is her vehicle- parked in front of the bar- [censored] vehicle is there to. This is at 9 oclock. Nothing until 230 AM. She roles in and is drunk. I have not talked to her - don't really want to talk to her--

THIS IS THE DEAL BREAKER

I am ready to file and if I could get -r done by tonight I think I would sign and be done with the M.

I really want to take the right steps this time.
I procrastinated and mixed up everything I was trying to do and made a big mess of it all. I have been very tolerant patient and kind since 1999 when she relapsed. I found the MB program about 4-5 years ago and have worked really hard on cleaning up my own LB"s

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH OF THIS HEADF**K GAME> ALCOHOLISM/AFFAIRS

At this point a 2 bedroom apt anywhere but here and my 14 yr old DD staying with me as much as possible looks very appealing.

MY PROBLEM/QUESTIONS

NEED GUIDANCE--DEFINATELY READY TO LISTEN AND ACT

How do I legally get her out of the house? When we were seperated before I ran a flimsly Plan B. She walked all over it. Even broke into the house to be here and then wouldn't leave.

While I was laying in bed (not sleeping) I was running Intermediarys through my head. I think I have a very good one if she will do it.

Should I file for D as quickly as possible? I am prepared for the outcome whatever it may be. Then drag my feet? I know I may feel different in a week.

Do I allow her to take anything from the house besides her personal stuff?

How do you tie up credit cards? She has little income-During last flimsy PLB she used them basically to tie the gap in income. I had the DD 70% of the time and everything that goes along with a house to pay for.

Pull all the money from joint accounts and use it to keep paying the bills? Basically cut her off financially (except her pay check) until something legal is established?

Exposure?? I will (as low as it may seem) be testing for contact today. Should I find out there has been contact (drinking and renewal of the A) should I scorch the Earth?

My thoughts when I formulate a PLB letter is to send it to

her--- parents/ 2 brothers/boss at work/close friend at work/[censored]

ME--my parents/2 brothers 1 sister/My empoyer already has been aware of the sit in the past but will be updated.

Would this be going to far or not far enough with exposure???????

Had to post and get this started. Its not the path I would chose for myself or any one else.

Please help if you can

Rocky

Rocky,

<threadjack>

I don't know I you saw, but TeaTea(Regret_Is_Me) posted some very disparaging remarks about this forum and the people that tried to help her over in "Recovery". Specifically, she made some very mean insluting remarks directed at my wife(Resonance/LaLa). I was wondering if you had time, would you please stop over there and add your comments since you were also one of the more vocal posters that tried to help her. She's claiming everyone has ignored her!

Having a rough time......(TeaTea)

</threadjack>

Sorry to hear about your situation. I'll let LaLa know you are having problems and see if she has any advice for you. Hang in there!

Want2Stay