Hey Nes,

Boy am I sorry to hear this! I'm also sorry that I don't feel I can be much help...you're the one who's helped me! I'll be keeping up w/this thread though & offer support where needed.

I'll tell you, as I posted this morning, Plan B has been a God-send. Easy? Not even a little bit. Scary? Terribly so. But I'm getting stronger & I've got one he!! of a support system & I've never felt better about the current state of things. Even beneath the mild panic & derailments, life is good.

I will tell you this: secure your finances NOW. Don't give her the chance to plunder your funds - she (likely) will! I tried play nicey-nice, and I was rewarded by paying H's rent! And other misc. charges! Probably good to file too, D or LSA, so you can get the DD situation straightened out & also to let your W know you're for real. I think that's what's got my H reeling right now - this isn't how we usually play - I usually give in or let him home or even beg him to come home! Not this time!!

Best to you, be strong, and I'll be watching.

P.S. RIM/TeaTea has "left" the board so I'm not sure if your time or energy is well spent on her thread(s). Just sayin'

I'm so sorry nesre...I know you are hurting...

You know you need to protect yourself from her. It doesn't really matter if you feel differently in a week, yanno. I hate to say that, but the way you are feeling now needs to be your motivator. You cannot control her...you need to be well and you deserve so much better.

I think my "advice" would be based on what YOU want to happen, because I am a little unclear (you prolly are too, as you are understandably reeling). Do you want to save your M or is this really the deal breaker?

If you want to save the M, then I would say DARK Plan B, exposure, and heal yourself.

If you are DONE, then file and move out (if she won't) until the courts divide everything up.

The key here, either way, is to protect yourself from more destruction- emotionally and financially. Julie is right...if she is drinking again, she will clean you out financially, especially if she feels you are done and leaving/D. She will think of noone but herself...you know this.

I am just so sorry you find yourself here once again. I know you had much hope this time that things would be better once she was sober for a while. You know who you can control in this scenario, though...please take care of yourself and be well. Hopefully someone with more experience will be around to help you, too. As I have said before-this isn't something (alcoholism) that I have dealt with, and all I know is that Dr. Harley says you cannot Plan A someone while they are hooked, and Julie's Plan B seems to be working for HER own happiness.

I wish you all the best...and thank you from the bottom of my heart for the help on the other thread. It meant a lot to me!

(((((nesre)))))

Julie

Thanks for your support.

I guess the next few days will tell exactly the direction I am going to go.

Its great to see you happy and doing so well.

Wife called 3 times today while I am at work. Its just like she never quit. It was sixteen months.

Says she found out from this (last night was the 1st time) that theres no doubt in her mind shes alcoholic...Do ya think????

Drinking only-I may try PLB

If [censored] was involved I really think I mam done.

Sorry I haven't been on. Been too busy at work.

I pray for you guys every night-Even your H.

Gotta Run

Rocky

Resonance

I could always live with W's drinking. It was when she became involved with the OM it all got crazy..It was like a weird line that I crossed and I can't get back on the right side of it. It is within me.

I am going to do some snooping (because I have the capability)
and if he was involved (SEX) that would be the deal breaker.

If it truly was a drunk PLB would be better because I truly would like to save the M.

Mix A + A and it just gets to crazy.

Thanks for your support

Rocky

Looking for help possibly from Princess Meggy??


Not exactly sure how to contact someone on the board so I hope someone can get the message to
to her and see if she can look my thread over.

I read through your recovery story and can really relate. More than once you said you wish you had known about MB's principles and the help here on the board. How it may have made a big difference.

I've been lurking for about three years and seldom post. I know I come from a different side (Al-Anon + AA ) living with an active alcoholic. I use MB to help myself with LB's and also to get a good grip on what a good M looks like. Still things get crazy.

Heres where things are at now and why I am looking for possibly help from you.

WW went back to drinking in March. (She had about 18 mo's-DRY ONLY & Miserable.) At that time I was debating over it being a deal breaker. Decided to sit and see what was going to happen with A and alcohol. I think PA ended in 12/2006 but EA may still be real. Try to stay detached/ protected kind of living my own life but yet supportive when she maintains some sobriety. Have gone through many cycles over the past months with short periods of sobriety and binges.

WW things also such as

OM phone # appearing once on home phone
Her-Telling me OM was at a certain bar and she left and went elswhere
OM Driving into his place 1 minute after she drives in here after she has been gone drinking for hours-has happened several times

I KNOW-2x4's om lives close by-I Have tried to get her to move-I am more than willing to move

Put vehicle 1 in the ditch-doesn't remember exactly where or who pulled her out-
Cigarette ashes on the passenger side of the vehicle-Who was with you?
Passenger seat tilt adjusted back in the vehicles- when no one has been with you
Bought DD a decent car in Sept-Hit (drunk) telephone pole Dec 2008-$1800 in damage
Lots of drunk stuff-Coincedences-????

It is a mixture of WW and alcoholic "normal".

WW is highly intellegent (IQ proves it). She has an angels heart when it comes to working with special needs children-mainly autistic. She always has. At times before she started drinking our R has been very good. PERFECT_-_-? MB M?? ---NO WAY but good.

She has been called by alcohol counselors as a high functioning drunk. She can consume large volumes-could drink a lot of good men under the table-and still walk - talk - spit- and touch her a$$ with both hands - But ask her the next day what she did that night and she does not remember more than just the first hour or so.

One thing I have learned well from this board and all boards that deal with R's is that the addiction(s) needs to be dealt with b-4 any M recovery can begin.



HERES WHERE THE REAL QUESTION IS

SHE has stayed sober for the last 3 weeks. Has gone to a lot of AA meetings/church/met w/pastor

Still acts like a WW to me-Has turned all of history around (always has) and I am the bad guy. Mean and resentful to me. She treats DD 15 with care and trys to make up for her wrongs.

Was so bad last week I asked her if we could go to a M counselor. She agreed.

I called 2. Only one called me back Sat.


OF ALL THINGS MC WORKED DIRECTLY UNDER HARLEY FOR SEVEN YEARS!!!


WW talked to her and "POJA" (something new for us) We are scheduled for this Thursday.


With your past history would you have any advice on how I should persue this opportunity?

If you had been given a chance like this would you have done something totally different that may have really helped your situation?

Any advice on how to proceed with an Alcoholic in dry drunk and is a WW? May be active EA yet?

God knows I need all the help I can get and even if you don't think you can help me personally I would appreciate a prayer.


50 –YIKES!! BS
Married 27 yrs
A/CD treatment 8/1986
FWH 1987
Me N/C w/OW for 3 mo's after W asked me to give her up
Mutual agreement to get back together
DS 25 DD 15
Her
WW 44
EA/PA –1986/1987 A Ended after 1½ yr seperation-NC w/OM for 4 months-
Mutual agreement to get back together
A/CD treatment 1988 Relapse in 1998 6 treament programs since-none completed
EA/PA 2004?—10/2006? Mixed w/alcohol relapses-attempting to stay sober
Treatment 12/06 -Just wants to leave A in the past-“WE” know what to do
Until 3/2008 dry drunk-
Current-Mixed Alchohol relapses and brief dry stretches
EA? PA? ONS? Drunk?

Wow Nesre, you guys LIVE on a roller-coaster. I don't know what I can offer since when my H stopped drinking, he REALLY stopped. But he didn't stop with just that, he went through some intense counseling to get to the bottom of things. I don't think we would have made it if he had only stopped drinking. It would have been a matter of time (1 month, 1 year, 5 years) before he started again.

Your wife (and you) have battled alcohol-related problems for a long, long time. The affairs, AO, LBs, etc. are all part of that. Even if you learned the MB way... until your wife gets serious help, I don't see it being effective.

Another thing, I don't know if you are a believer, but God also played a HUGE part in the restoration of our marriage and my DH's inner healing. It wasn't until he was back-against-the-wall-no-where-else-to-go-I'm-gonna-die-if-I-don't-change that God was FINALLY able to do some serious work in him.

I would say to you as the Husband to get into church... humble yourself before God... get some intense counseling... and stay in AA, etc. (if that helps you). Hopefully, your wife will follow your lead... as she should. Then you can work the MB plans together as they are meant to be worked.

PM

Thanks for replying.

I printed your post out and will be in church Sunday. Started about 3 yrs ago. Quit going about 1 1/2 yrs ago.

The MC we see tommorow may be able to help me to find a personal C.

Definately will stay with AA.

Thanks again. If you say prayers at night please add an extra one for us if you can.

50 –YIKES!! BS
Married 27 yrs
A/CD treatment 8/1986
FWH 1987
Me N/C w/OW for 3 mo's after W asked me to give her up
Mutual agreement to get back together
DS 25 DD 15
Her
WW 44
EA/PA –1986/1987 A Ended after 1½ yr seperation-NC w/OM for 4 months-
Mutual agreement to get back together
A/CD treatment 1988 Relapse in 1998 6 treament programs since-none completed
EA/PA 2004?—10/2006? Mixed w/alcohol relapses-attempting to stay sober
Treatment 12/06 -Just wants to leave A in the past-“WE” know what to do
Until 3/2008 dry drunk-
Current-Mixed Alchohol relapses and brief dry stretches
EA? PA? ONS? Drunk?

EA? PA? ONS? Drunk?

I'll do better than that. I'll say one right now.

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

Just had to post since its only been about 10 months.

Extremely down.

WW alcoholic W in alcohol treatment again.

Let me back up. From the last post until Oct 15 drunk on and off again. Mostly on.

Got so bad DD16 and I had an apartment rented to move into Oct 25. WW basically bought more time by going to treatment.

Only thoughts I had was a solid PB. I was able to get out of the apartment deal and stay in my home. DD and I were ready to walk if she did not chose the treatment deal.

Saw IC last week. Talked about up coming end of treatment. In the past I have always tried to be very supportive. Last time in 2006 ended up being an angry sober WW. A started again after she went back to drinking. "They are only drinking Buds"
Discussed with IC at how to proceed. She was very straight forward as she saw us 3 times last winter. If WW grabs on physically, makes direct eye contact-body language in any way says I just wanna be close to you-Baby I'm sorry don't give up on me-Then cautiously go with the flow.

If you get the same old same old be prepared to move on with DD. Confrontional-wont make eye contact-digs way back into the past and uses it as a club-

Haven't really talked for 3 weeks since the phone time is limited. DD has been with at visiting (very limited also) so not much opportunity there.

Drove 100 miles one way last night to see the return of the "SOBER WW".

Upset at how I "Hurt her parents by exposing her Affair"
I did very limited exposure. My parents, hers. and my DD16.

The only thing I could say was are they upset by the knowledge or by the A itself? Did not go over well with WW. Thinks I did it just to belittle her.

I have a very good R with inlaws. I called them earlier and asked them there truthful opinion when I told them. They said they were not upset at all by the way I presented the news to them. They believed my intent was asking for help and support.
It also cleared up why their R with D was so messed up. Wouldn't return phone calls-make plans and not show and such.

Hey did ya know they just invented these new things called bounderies?? She was adiment about placing a bunch around me..........

What a wonderful way to spend 1 1/2 hours and then drive home 100 miles.

Looks like PLAN B still ahead. Disapointed and bummed

Nesre

So sorry. I'm sure you know by now that her comment was her self-defense mode so that she doesn't have to look at the REAL issue - HER.

I doubt she will ever be able to delve that deep inside.

Teach D16 a real lesson, and leave the drunk behind. D16 already has a really good chance of becoming an enabler just like you. Leaving W is probably the only chance you have of helping D16 NOT become like that.

CP

Thanks for your post.

Since posting DD and I are going through a 4 day family program at the rehab center. Each of us (DD and I) will be in seperate groups without W. W will even be out b-4 we go. This is something new 4 us.

Hoping this will give us each a new perspective on how we all interact as a family.

DD already has been affected and it is now coming out.
Currently is seeing an IC, and is in a support group at school. 3 weeek ago she asked me (after seeing her IC that day) to go to a NA meeting. She has had 2 experiences with drinking I knew about but appears pot really seems to be the problem. I took her that night and now she goes regularly.

DS 26 also lived with us until 20 years old. The last 2 years were straight out boundry breaking (drinking in the house). W would not let me toss him out (which I am now grateful 4) which was my first instinct. Instead we gave him generous deadlines to find work-apartment. It was kinda POJA between W and I.
We cleaned-painted-moved-filled his refrigerator-over a course of about 5 months. Biggest part was money 4 apartment. W's and his drinking played off of each other this whole time with each blaming the other.

He is still into heavy drinking and from time to time we hear stories from other people about "How we threw him out".
Extremely distorted.

I'm grateful because we accomplished the goal-living in his own space-with love, compaasion and kindness. I know the true story.

"I doubt she will ever be able to delve that deep inside."

I don't know either. This last week of her program is an intensive spirtual retreat. It was an add on to the program and she brought it up several times. Money was the issue since insurance does not pay 4 it. All I could do was support what ever her decision was as to going. (Used GRACE-Gently Released All Concious Expectations) Yesterday she made the final decision to go. It gives me a shred of hope again.

I truly believe our HP will work with us when we are ready. Is she ready? I can't answer 4 her.

I know PLB may still be needed to break this cycle we are all in. I am willing to ride it out just a little longer-3 months and see if the course we are on changes
I know my course needs to change. Implementing PLB may be the healthiest choice at some point ahead-just not today.


I post here b/c I do find a lot of info that i can apply to my own personal life and M. Actually I use a lot of different sources. CP you stated that you do not believe she will be able to delve deep inside. I was in her shoes several years ago. Hollow, empty, a shell of a human. By figuring out what I don't like about myself I am able to take small baby steps and fill that human back up again. With the good stuff.

My true hope is that if one person identifies with my sitch and does find some hope or strength then posting here has been well worth the time.


Nesre

I'm so glad your daughter's getting help!

Sounds hopeful. I'm a big believer in therapy, especially intensive therapy. Good luck.

Hey CP

I been reading through your thread with interest b/c I see some of the patterns WW and I are in. SOOO much ingrained communication and control. I see it with DD too. I see it in all of us.
The 8 page post from LA at the beginning of your posts is a big bite to chew on but makes sense in my world to. I'm going to print it off too.

My question today is she went to the spiritual retreat for a week so next Sunday she will be complete with the whole program.

With approximately 45 days of sobriety would this be the time to ask for N/C? I was checking her cell for the first 2 weeks of her program and heard messages from POSOM. I even forwarded one 2 my phone. Didn't know I could do that or I would have forwarded them all. She wasn't allowed her phone in treatment but had it in her possession.
Probably a mistake but I let her know I was checking her phone. I let her know the A at least from POSOM's point of view is not dead. She changed the pw and let me know I violated her privacy. No access to her phone.

She says POSOM is only a drinking R. I don't buy it. I have seen too much and know different.

I really do not want WW back. I would be exstatic to let newly sober W in and let her grow.
Is this the time to apply MB's principles. Have others had this type of experience?

My head tells me not to let WW back into the house w/o minimum agreement of

Continues recommended treatment plan for sobriety
N/C w/POSOM
Commitment to work on the M-POJA? Counseling/MB home study course?


Any ideas??

Nesre

[quote=MelodyLane]Unfortunately, many women have been taught that there is empowerment through victimhood, so in order to gain that power, they have to demonize MEN. Many women have an entitlement attitude that leads them to believe they are entitled to an affair; that they are somehow free to abuse (ALCOHOL/EMOITIONAL/VERBAL/A) their husbands (NESRE)and their children(DD) and no one will say anything about it. And men (NESRE)put(S) up with it!!

The WW's come here and are SHOCKED to discover that they the pity parade doesn't wash HERE. The posters here see right through it and hand them their asses. I agree that there is a double standard and that the mistreatment of men is largely ignored, while every grievance, real or imagined, towards women is magnified.

That being said, you MEN (NESRE)contribute(S) to this sad state of affairs by acting (BEING A)like doormats. How many times have we seen men come on this forum who abandoned their families just because some selfish, entitled wayward wife told him to get out so she could carry on her affair? (BEEN TOLD MANY TIMES IF I DON;T LIKE IT LEAVE) As long as you MEN (NESRE)act like DOORMATS, you will continue to be treated as such. And you have to take some PERSONAL responsibility for CONTRIBUTING TO YOUR OWN DEMISE. If you would stop lying down, you might not get walked over so badly!

I get real tired of having to tell men how to act like men around here. I am going to start charging you men commission for my work. (quote]

MEL-I HAVE NO IDEA IF YOU READ MY THREAD BUT DO YOU TAKE VISA OR MC?


Stolen from another thread but applies to me.

After 30 days away from AWW I am standing back like a 3rd person looking at what was supposed to be our M. Pure rediculous-crazyness-insanity. Not only from her but from me to willingly participate.

I was O&H with her last night on the phone and asked her to find an apartment to see if all this could be sorted out with space and time.
B-4 I can go any further with this R-M?(Not sure) I need to know that sobriety is a firm commitment and that N/C is really N/C.

I struggled with this all week as I can see my love has been unconditional instead of conditional. Big mistake.

It is a boundery I have never placed in the past and maybe thats why I have footprints ingrained on my forehead.

Nesre

BUMP

Bump

Hi.
I see this.
I had to LOL at the way I chose to end my post !


Shocking!