I first posted this in the Divorced/Divorcing forum but got a referral here in an attempt to recover the marriage. Long story short, my wife of 31 years entered a mid-life crisis and told me on the Nov 1 that she was unhappy and didn't want to be a wife and mother any more. A week or 2 later, I discovered she was having an online affair. I convinced her to try MC but she refused to go after 2 sessions, I suspect because she had already made up her mind that she wanted out of the marriage. The OM is really a downgrade: he has no money and is twice my weight. But she bought him a bus ticket to come see her. Their first 'date' was in a Super 8 Motel. We filed for divorce shortly thereafter (the divorce is not final). However, I found some of their emails during that period that suggested he was using her to get at my daughters (21 and 13). He said things to my wife that suggested he was a pedophile (directed at my 13-year-old). I got a restraining order against him to keep him from making any kind of contact with her.

She's abandoned the family twice, moving to where this OM lives about 1000 miles away in CA. On both occasions, she cited it was my fault. Her latest 'reasoning' is that it was because I would not lift the restraining order so he can come shack up with her. (She wants to be able to have some custody of my daughter and that can't happen with the order in place). The first time she was there it lasted about 2 weeks but she became angry with him because he couldn't put her first in his life (in front of his kids and his ex). And I gather she's not really happy again because she's found this ape to be an unmotivated couch potato who does nothing but watch TV and play video games … and who lost his job a few weeks ago. At the same time, it looks like she may be headed for another EA. (Rather than seeking a professional counselor, she takes advice from people she plays on a game site and she's struck up a 'trusting' relationship with yet another; however, at this point she insists he's just a friend who understand her.) In any event, she's decided in her state of irrational behavior that there's no way we could reconcile.

I still love her deeply even after all the hurt she's inflicted. I suggested to her that we try to reconcile but she's not receptive. My part of the hurt coming from detecting her suspicious behavior then 'spying' on her … then getting my in-laws to "side" with me (but they saw it for what it was). As I understand Plan A (I'm a beginner), I readily confessed my sins when this first began and am willing to work it but she's unwilling or unable talk, or at least reason, enough to implement the plan (even though she's unhappy with him). She's lost all rational thinking and would rather stay there, miserable, than consider possibilities to save our marriage. I should stress that from day 1 she's been stuck on this plan of hers; that she doesn't want to be my wife anymore.

I apologize that this is a rather rambling first post but the story is complex as well as distressing. Given her irrational thought and behavior, I'm at a loss of where to proceed. Any suggestions? Plan B?

Pablo,

I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. The veterans here should help. It does sound like your wife is addicted to her on-line gaming and needs to give it up if she's to become a real wife. Have you read all the information on this site and His Needs/Her Needs, Surviving an Affair?

Have you been in Plan A?

Pablo, how come she doesn't want to be your wife? What was your marriage like before her affair?

And I APPLAUD YOU for protecting your daughters!! You did exactly the right thing in getting a RO and in exposing your wife's affair. You also did the right thing in spying on her. No one has the right thing to the privacy to have an affair and destroy you behind your back.

It sounds to me like you have been doing a plan A all this time and have good instincts for this. Have you read any Harley material? I would suggest getting Surviving an Affair by Dr. Willard Harley and then reading Lovebusters. There are some links I can give you that will get you started.


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html

Our marriage before the affair.
Our marriage had developed in to a routine, a rut really. She had her hobbies, I had mine. We watched some TV and movies and together but had few things that we did together. After having read the ENs, I recognize now that these were probably major contributing factors. As she initially announced her unhappiness as a reason for leaving and I attempted to probe for the source of her unhappiness, she revealed that she wanted more excitement in her life and more sexual passion.

As for the latter, some background. She has always been inhibited sexually. She felt uncomfortable talking about her needs and desires. After a gillion attempts to get her to open up to me in this way and since frequency or technique wasn't a problem for me, I stopped trying to find out what she liked in that department. About 10 years ago (20 something years into our marriage), she revealed that she had been molested by her uncle. I was concerned and did approach her about getting counseling at the time; however, she insisted that she had gotten over it. The reason I believe this important now is that it appears to be a major concern to her. In the messages I've seen, she's a totally different person: She's revealed to the OM, things she never talked about with me. (Hurtful to say the least). I still continued therapy and the counselor suggests that the molestation probably plays a big part in her new found desires and that fact that when he stated sexual ideations in his messages toward my daughters and she overlooked them suggests that she may be unconsciously offering the daughters to him.

As for her unhappiness, she says she tried to talk to me about it but I really don't recall ANY direct discussions about it. I don't discount that she may have thrown hints my way, but they would have been so subtle that I didn't pick up on them.

And then several months before this happened, the wife was terribly involved in planning our daughter's wedding, that caused her a lot of stress. This was a 'project' between her and my daughter and I didn't detect that she wanted any additional help.

Another factor that played a part was that she was approaching 50.

A major obstacle to Plan A.
Soon after I discovered the OM (still an EA at the time), I pleaded with her to end it. To try to reconcile our differences but she wouldn't hear of it. She had set a SINGLE course of action and that was to end our marriage. At first some of these were stated in anger but saw that wasn't getting me anywhere. Subsequent attempts at reasoning with her in a calm but respectful manner have failed. At this time, she's not receptive to leaving this guy cold even though they continue to have problems, major ones IMO. I do feel it's a matter of time before it's over but like I mentioned previously, there's a distinct possibility she may be developing another EA for another although she insists 'he's just a friend.'

Lovebusters
If she were to come to this site, as I've suggested to her on several occasions, she would definitely look upon the spying on her as a 'buster; however, in the lack of info that she provided me, I felt I had no choice to discover what was going on. Had I not done it, I wouldn't have know about his desires on my daughters. So although it could be viewed as a 'buster, I feel justified in that respect alone.

I will definitely pick up and read, 'Surviving an Affair." Thanks for the recommendation.

In the meantime, need advice on how to proceed.

Pablo, she may not have liked your spying, but that is definitely not a lovebuster. The only reason she would not have liked it is because she had something to hide.

Are you giving her any money? Does she have access to your money and credit? How is she supporting herself?

Pablo, one of the goals with Plan A, which is covered in SAA, is to convince your spouse that you will be willing to meet her needs in the future. The reason she is having an affair is because the OM is meetng some of her top needs. What need do you think that is? Could it be sexual fulfillment?

But first, of course, you have to identify those needs. SAA can help you with that. A good start would be this link that describes emotional needs. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html

Thanks Melody! I'll try to get that book TODAY. I've studied those the emotional needs. Unfortunately, without her input everything is just my guess. At this point she's not willing to discuss it.

Last time I talked to her, I expressed my desire to TRY to work things out. I think that scared her. She hasn't talked to me since.

I am giving her money but it's barely enough to cover her bills at the moment.

Pablo, I would STOP doing that immediately, because essentially you are financing her affair. That is NOT in her best interest or yours! I would separate all your finances and get her name off any credit cards, lines of credit, etc, so she can't plunder your finances. If you stop giving her money, she will be forced to either go to work or get money from the OM. This will put great pressure on her affair.

Thanks again Melody! She's been removed from credit cards and such...I feel that from that perspective, I'm protected (well as much as I can be in a no-fault state). Thing is, that the money I do give her now is less than what she could actually have the court impose on me before the divorce is even final (temporary 'maintenance'/alimony).

Do you suggest that I withhold that to force her hand? That's viable particularly since she's not currently in the state and would have to come back to put that in motion. I understand what you're saying but I didn't want to get into an more adversial position.

Pablo,

I too am very sorry you are here. But this is the best plae you can be. The weekends tend to be slow on here, but there will be lots of people who will come help out.

Even though different sexes, your sitch sounds so similar. The downgrade of OP, the unwillingness to try to work on the marriage, the SF problems between us and how they "say" things are so much better. WH told me that the grass wasn't greener on the other side. He didn't want to be married to his best friend anymore. He wanted something more. That something more is a crack addict or user with hep c who has been divorced twice and stays at home and caters to his needs.

My WH has pretty much abandoned his life completly. And it hurts deeply. So I totally know who deeply hurt you must be and at a complete loss to understand why they are doing what they are doing.

There are so many on here who can help you put into place a solid Plan A, but keep in mind that anything you change or do is for you. Do you see things in your M that you want to change regardless of whether she comes back ro not?

How are your children doing? Hopefully GHopper will check in on you and offer some advice, he just put together the most amazing Plan A which culminated with reconciliation last week. If he doesn't check in, go visit his thread and see if you can't get him over her. And if not, then there are truly many many others, like Melody who know what they are talking about and will help you.

I wish you the best. I truly understand how hard it is, and how sad that you are watching the one person you loved the most in the world destroy their life and there isn't anything you can do but pray.

Do you have a relationship with G-d?

Yes, absolutely! You are ENABLING her affair by giving her money. that is not in anyone's best interest! That is like driving the drunk to the bar and giving him beer money. This makes it EASY for her to stay out there. Don't give her a CENT unless it is ordered by the court.

She won't like it, but that is ok. Your marriage can survive some temporary anger when you cease to enable her, but it can't survive an ongoing affair. Your goal is to save your marriage, not to avoid making her mad at any cost.

Hi Queenie! Thanks for you your input. It's comforting, in some respects, to know that there are others that have felt what I am feeling at the moment…although it is sad.

I tried looking for the GHopper thread you referred to but not having much luck. Do you have a specific link?

Melody, thanks for the advice. It makes so much sense to withhold her funding. I don't believe it will be too much of a problem in the future…since she's not really leaning forward to make things happen in regards to the divorce.

Some additional info on this episode: I really want my wife and daughter to have some kind of 'normal' relationship regardless of the outcome. However, she continues to hold this restraining order as a point of contention between us. Her 'reasoning' is that it's keeping her away from her daughter … as if the restraining order is against her as well. I flat out asked her what responsibility she thinks her bf should take for it and all she says is 'some.' So this is what I'm up against: I can't leave my 13 year old daughter vulnerable and at the same time try to save this marriage. Of course on my part, this is a no-brainer. My daughter will be protected at all costs. But the wife doesn't see it that way and it's nearly impossible to break through that barrier. It's as if we have nothing to talk about until the restraining order is lifted although there are definite signs that this relationship is over.

My take on this dilemma, currently, is to just let the wife let this affair die it's death but in the meantime suffer through her ups and downs. It's not really the course I'd choose, but don't see with her line of reasoning, any other way. At the moment, with this restraining order in place, she practically refuses to listen to anything I have to say even although she's 'beginning' to see no future with this OM.

What gets under my skin is her unwillingness to attempt to see how her moving back here is in the best interest of our daughter. I really hate to accuse her of this but despite what she says, her actions tell me that our daughter really doesn't play a part in her decisions. Perhaps it's her dementia but it's extremely disturbing none the less.

You have nothing to talk about because she is in the throes of an ADDICTIVE AFFAIR. She uses the RO as an EXCUSE, but be assured that the RO would not be a barrier if it were not for her affair.

Nor can you reason with your wife. Trying to reason with an affairee is like trying to reason with a falling down drunk. THEY HAVE THE EXACT SAME MENTALITY. She lives for her AFFAIR and her OM and nothing else matters. I am sure you can see this.


She is blinded by her affair as I said above. Thank GOD you have the good sense to protect your DD!


This is true, your DD's best interest is not her priority at all. In fact, she would HARM your DD if need be to get her affair FIX. This is just the truth, Pablo, and it is a CLASSIC trait of affairees. But, it does no good to say this to your wife.

If you are saying stuff like this to her, I would stop doing that. No lectures, no disrespectful judgements, but do tell her the TRUTH. Tell her that you and DD are very hurt by her affair.

You are getting good advice. Now the only thing is to stay calm and have some patience. Of course the affair will end. But then you want your wife back.

I would write her cheery emails about things you are doing. That way you will be communicating with her to meet a need, but will be more able to keep away from the subject of the RO.

You did the right thing, so don't back down.

The OM was meeting some of her EN's - I would assume conversation and admiration. Who know? So you will need to attempt meeting whatever needs you can long distance.

Also, Pablo, I think that right now your wife is a DANGER to your DD, and that very much SHOULD effect their relationship. That is a natural consequence of her affair and she should not be protected from that. NOR should the truth be withheld from your DD. That is a risk to her security to not understand that her mother is NOT SAFE. She cannot protect herself from her mother if she does not know the truth.

Melody is EXACTLY right. I've been thinking about that. You want to be CERTAIN that your daughter knows what's going on in case your wife tries to break the RO to satisfy the pervert.

It is scarey to think about, but pedophiles DO choose vulnerable women to get access to their children.

Of course you are all correct. Being FORCED to choose between my daughter's safety and my marriage is both easy and difficult. Meaning, there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that I will protect my daughter at all costs no matter how difficult it is personally. Fortunately, the wife and OM are out of state and I'm not currently challenged by proximity.

As you might suspect, my wife and daughter were very close. Trying to communicate to my daughter the danger she's in has been emotionally grueling. The wife has convinced her that "he's a nice guy" and even got my daughter to ask no, plead with me directly to drop the RO. I'm sure you can imagine how heartbreaking that must be to tell your daughter 'no,' but she's desperate to get her mom back. (I am too but not so desperate to drop that RO I assure you.) I don't want to show her the messages because they are truly disturbing (you can see them at http://www.geocities.com/pablo_s2k/OM_desires.html

I do have my daughter in counseling and her therapist, who's seen the messages, agrees it's probably not a good idea to show her at this age. Even if she picked up on the innuendos, it might do more harm. I've explained to her that they were of a sexual nature and that I did the restraining order to protect her. Of course she's torn between what I tell her and what the wife tells her. I hurt for her too because it's too much for a child to have to contend with.

As I said, or alluded to, previously, I think my ONLY course of action right now is to let the affair die a natural death. However, there's no indication on her part that she will change her mind about the divorce. Although she's not happy in her current condition, every conversation we have, she eventually brings up the RO. Once that subject comes up, it goes down hill. Given that, it's a major barrier to try to convince, or even show, my wife that I really want to satisfy her ENs. I'm at a loss on how to proceed.

The link only goes to Yahoo.

Pablo, how often do you talk to her and can you describe a typical conversation?

Pablo, I read those messages. They are absolutely horrible! If your wife cannot see the inappropriateness, she has truly been blinded by this junk. What a perv! You are doing the right thing completely with the RO. I am very concerned that your wife has enough sense to be a safe mother for your daughter at all.
Were these messages left all in a row, or over the course of several conversations? I mean, does he talk about your daughter like this regularly?? How old is this creep?