Thanks Guys, I can't see this from where I am right now....
I am roughly planning to go in 10 days time which is not long. I confronted her a little today and said why when previously she was spending everyday with me am I getting more of the cold shoulder now and she said she is extremely stressed about leaving and changing her life again.
She does seem to want to go but I agree with you guys above, what are her motives for doing it.
But therein lies the problem, with no fear in mind, I am prepared to go anyway regardless of whether she comes or not then if she doesnt come I will go to Plan B, though it does concern me that I have only done Plan A for a couple of months maximum.
So I agree with the wallowing in the affair and from Tokyo she will obviously get no help from me, no use of the car etc. so it's almost a default Plan B enforced by the distance.

However, what if I keep getting the I want to go with you story, and she actually wants to come with me with her son. (by the way I havent seen him for several weeks as he talks to the OM!) so in some way that would be a step that she were serious.

If I say to her, don't come with me stay here, when she is saying that she is leaving him then I may be shooting myself in the foot. Despite her fence sitting, I think that she is actually scared of this guy now and is frightened to leave unless he is out of the country for a while. I know she is very unhappy and all the things that give her pleasure or pain are being inflicted on her by him now so I know 100% she doesnt want to stay with him long term.

So with that in mind, what do I do when faced with her saying "lets go, I want to leave him, I want to spend the rest of my life with you"????

So on one hand theres that opportunity for a clean start somewhere fresh BUT I agree with the comments above that what happens when he comes back, I don't know how he will react and how she will react to his attentions....if she goes back to him again which is possible it's going to kill me, after I have no doubt spent a couple of weeks Plan A'ing to death in Tokyo when she is with me.

Then there is the possibility of exposure to him, but can someone tell me the benefit of that. He already knows she is not happy and they obviously sneaked around behind my back so all it will do is cause a big argument and she wont talk to me for several months if at all. It WONT precipitate the end of their relationship, I know that 100%. She will talk her way out of it with him.

So choices seem to be:

Exposure followed by WW3
I move anyway if she choses NOT to come and then Plan B (worried about short Plan A though)
She wants to come with me and is up for it - Then what do I do?

Thanks for all your help......I was ok before doing my Plan A but as time for a move is approaching I am getting stressed and unhappy and she is also getting stressed which is not making for the best Plan A environment.

Ah, I forgot to add that her two friends are leaving at the same time, one to America and one to Tokyo as well so she will have no friends left here after that.

Spike

Nothing you can do can make your WW leave your marriage. Nothing you say and nothing you do, unless you force a divorce on her.

All you can do now is affect how welcoming a proposition is a marriage with you in it.

That is what Plan A is primarily about. With your neediness and panic you're not doing a great job of this Spike.

Do you think that many of us who are advising you don't know EXACTLY what that ice cold panic in your gut feels like ?

Fear, and your instinct, are not your friends right now.

If you move away and plan B you need to be VERY dark.

You also need to set parameters in a plan B letter for your spouses return in a letter.

AND agree an intermediary.

But in any case Spike, you better man up mate. Your walking terror isn;t healthy for you, and isn't useful to your marriage. I know this.

All blessings

I dont think I can do this anymore.
Im sitting here crying again. She saw me a for a few minutes and I asked why dont you want to see me so much now or talk to me and she said because you keep pressuring me, or asking me questions or not smiling when I see you, you're not happy to see me.
She still said she wanted to be with me and said she wanted to see me tomorrow, valentines, and talk to me properly and smile. She even bought me an expensive valentines gift today!!!!
I dont get it...Im so confused and so tired of crying over her.
I said to her if you want me to go I will, today NOW, she said no she didnt want that.
She talked to OM just before she saw me as well and was angry with something he said as well.
I know I'm getting it wrong, questions and pressure are pushing her away, I think I've lost her.
Feel like getting on a plane now and throwing my phone in the sea.

Sorry for the constant updates, please read the posts above, I really need some help.
She just called again after I sent her a nice email and said I love your emails but your face is sad everytime I see you.
I know I'm pushing her away, I know I'm being anti Plan A and my time is running out.

Go and see your doctor about anti-depressants Spike.

They may help you detach and do this thing.


BTW that might not be a bad idea. A very dark plan B.

I know I'm not doing good, continue to beat me round the head in whatever way possible. I'm 33 and a well educated Brit and this isn't me, I feel weak and stupid.
I wake up everyday and think when I see her I will smile and do no LB's but everytime I manage to do it, and to respond to her sulking or whatever problem there is.
So please I know you have all been there, I SO appreciate all the advice and just plain support. I should see her tomorrow she has said she wants to as long as I smile so I am trying to man up before then!!!!

Does anyone have any thoughts on why she bought me an expensive valentines gift when she is supposedly a bit angry with my LBs at the moment?

Also, whats the thoughts on the moving away situation. If i move alone I guess its plan B time, but what do I do if she does want to come with me? It seems like I should force a discussion on how to repair and rebuild away from him but I'm afraid that will be seen as more LB behaviour?

Aghhhhhh.......you guys are amazing. You guys get me through my toughest times when I can't see through my fog...

With the Anti-Depressants, I agree unfortunately Japan doesn't have much stock in depression and medication so I Have ordered some St Johns Wort which is supposed to be good for mild to moderate depression. We will see!

This is a summary from Pepperband


Make your behaviours meet these objectives and you'll be fine !

Thanks Bob I am going to do some more reading and try and start afresh from tomorrow if I get the chance to see her, fingers and toes crossed.....

Whats your take on the valentines gift?

Spike

Nobility is attractive to women and differentiates you from OM.
Dignity is attractive to women and differentiates you from OM
WS fear judgment, so non-judgmentalism is attractive to WS
Calmness is a tool that encourages honesty in WS - if she knows you won't explode
Independence is attractive in BS, and can make WS fear losing them.

Pleading is pathetic and repels WS
Neediness repels WS
Trying to teach WS repels them
Trying to make them see sense repels WS

I am sure you can get Cipramil or similar in Japan. There are enough westerners there for there to be a demand.

Spike

She doesn't want you to dislike or judge her, so she is trying to compensate for her betrayal by buying you stuff. In a wayward mind that might actually work.

She is unable right now to show you she cares by stopping her affair so she is showing that in a way that doesn't require her contrition.

Pay little heed to it.

I'm messing up big time aren't I....

I was doing good with Plan A, she was getting sick and tired of him now I feel like I may have pushed her back towards him, in fact I know I have...

******.

You haven't pushed anybody anywhere !

Your WW has chosen her every action. her affair was not a reckoning on your husbandry, nor are her vacillations now.

Beat yourself up all you want, but that still doesn't make any of this your fault.

What you don't trust in your heart yet are these two truths :

1) You will be fine whatever happens, in a year. In fact if you "lovingly detach" you'll be better in SIX WEEKS than you can even imagine now.

2) That moving on from your WW in every way but fidelity is a good thing for your marriage.

Invest in yourself, go out, have fun, keep a smile on your face. Keep fit. This builds a confident more independent spike AND attracts your WW back.

My Revised Plan

Thanks guys for all your support especially Bob, I have been reading some of your story, I have re-read my previous posts and the help here and I want to summarise the situation and what I plan to do now and hopefully I am going down the right road this time, so comments would be appreciated:

Current Situation:

WW still living with OM. What do I know for sure......I know she is not happy, I know the fantasy of the affair has crumbled, I know he controls her, I know she has no money, I know she now finds sex with him boring and hasn't done it for a while, OH and she admits she made a mistake, after a slightly drunk phonecall when she told me what a mistake she had made and how much she loved me and begged me to tell her that I still loved her. That's what I know for sure from verifying my information

What I don't know.....how close she is to having had enough of him....whether she still sees his behaviour as a challenge or not or whether she has had enough....

She has said nice things, which I am not going to put too much faith in as she is a WS. She has said I love you, I love you very much, I don't love him anymore the love's gone for him and she is ready to finish with him. There is no doubt however, his lovebank is seriously depleted.

From talking to friends who also don't understand why she is still with him they attribute it to a) pride, b) guilt and c) a challenge

Pride - That she doesn't want to be seen in a bad light again in our small community for changing from him to me then leaving him again
Guilt - He turned down a lucrative contract to move here to be with her
Challenge - She thinks she can change him

SO when I have pressured her, bad LB Behaviour I know, she has said that she wants to leave this place and go with me and is ready to end it with him. She seemed to be honest because in the same conversation she talked about concerns she had with the way I behaved before and we would have to work on those.

What I am worried about:

That she is not as ready to chuck it in as she says. Yes she is very unhappy and all the other problems above but I think is still wavering between the two of us, especially as I have slipped in my Plan A recently. I think she is still clinging onto a believe that "tomorrow will be better" with him but it never is. I forgot to add that she tells me that they argue every day, sometimes big arguments. Her words were that the day starts off good and she thinks it will be ok, then something always happens to argue or to make her sad.

So it kind of feels like we're in a soccer match after a draw and ready for penalties! Trying to smile :-)

On my side, I don't control her and support her when I am not LB'ing and am more generous and have a track record of support.
On his side, it's still new and she still has a slim hope tomorrow will be better with him, though deep down she knows it won't.

So I think we're in a draw right now, I think I messed up the last few days and my fear has pressured her and swung it a bit back towards him now.

So it's penalty time and not much time to go and I think I am down 1-0 at the moment after a Plan A match that ended in a drawer.....

So I have roughly two weeks before I need to go to Tokyo to find a new job, I must do that for me.....

So my plan is:

I will go to Tokyo in any event, even if it means leaving her here with him because I cannot put my life on hold any longer and I know for a fact me moping around here is not attractive, if I got a decent job in Tokyo as I had before in the UK it would be very attractive.

If I go alone implement Plan B

In the next 2 weeks Plan A like crazy, no questions, no pressure just over the top Plan A, be a man and stop being a whingeing crying dirtbag.......

If she does decide to come with me, then we HAVE to sit down and agree what steps she is going to take to end it with him. We both have to agree or I am going to get hurt again when she is behind my back in Tokyo or coming back here to see him. AND I have to keep an eye on what is going on in Tokyo if she comes with me...

I think a serious possibility if I go to Tokyo and implement Plan B is that she follows pretty quick once I get established. I really cannot see her staying here unhappy with no friends in that situation. I know that I think if I go and Plan B, I'm not being over confident but I just can't see her staying with him unless she tries to cake eat some more.

Does this sound reasonable? I've tried to get a grip on all the advice, and I THINK I am reading her state of mind correctly.

I would really appreciate advice on whether I am reading her state of mind correctly. WS seem to always follow the same mindset and I need to know where I am in the game to try and work out what to do next.......

It doesn't matter what her state of mind is. Plan A followed by plan B is the best thing you can do with an a wayward spouse unless they have a chemical addiction or a mental illness.

if she stays with OM its because she wants to. if she comes home its because she wants to.

Concentrate on your own behaviour. Study and apply plan A until you plan B in Tokyo.

You're making it sound very complicated., It isn't, mate.

Study MB more, panic less.

Thanks Bob,
I just re-read my previous story post link on first page and comments from Melody...
I just thought of a third option, sorry if I'm being boring I'm just trying to get some plan in my head I can stick to amongst the confusion.
There seem to be three scenarios:
1) Plan A, for 2 weeks, followed my me moving alone to Tokyo then Plan B
2) Plan A, for 2 weeks, followed by her coming with me.

and I just thought of....

3) Continued Plan A, until I find a job remotely from here BEFORE moving to Tokyo then if she doesn't come Plan B.

The reason I add the last one is she mentioned today she is worried about how we live until I find work which is a valid point. With a young son, she could have a valid point in staying put with him until I am established.

BUT if I go with no job and Plan B, even when she could have a point about security, I may shoot myself in the foot.

Therefore option 2 is the best option, followed by option 3 then option 1.

Sorry again for keeping posting, I am so confused, she wants to hear my plans for Tokyo tomorrow, so I am thinking she is worried about security for her and her young son which is a fair point. If I do option 1, it just might be for the wrong reasons at the wrong time.

Thoughts? Thanks?

Thanks again Bob...
Melody if you are about can you take a look as you helped when I first posted my previous post and story.

Spike have you studied "surviving an affair" and the articles on this site ?

Hi Bob,

Yes I am on my second read of surviving an affair now....and been studying a while.
My lack of skill in Plan A is not down to not reading its just down to me panicking and being stupid!

Spike,

Just read a few of your posts, and wanted to remind you, Plan A is for YOU. Continue to tell yourself, your Plan A goal is to make YOU a better person.

Have no expectations of seeing results of PLAN A from your WW.

Sitting on the edge of your seat, holding your breath waiting for your WW to change will not make it happen. It will only set you up for further emotional pain and suffering. She will see and feel that.

OM is unknowingly helping your Plan A. Each day she spends with him makes you look more attractive. Now it's time for you to work on your game face, and be more attractive, solid, and stable.

Your WW is cake eating. She keeps a foot holding each door from closing and locking behind her, to both you and OM. She wants options.

It's your job to give her a safe place to land when she hits bottom. To also remind her, that decision is hers, but you require 100% of her commitment, anything less is unexceptable.

Keep posting, keep reading, see a Doc about the Anti-D's.

-JKT