Yeah thats what she doesnt get I think.
Right now she is getting desperate for money, he doesnt want her to work, shes emptying her bank account, son starting school she needs money for, car falling apart etc etc....
Until now shes had me to fall back on, cake eat with etc.
I know he doesnt give her any money to speak of apart from food etc.
So I think shes going to find life pretty difficult, I aint going to be sending her money, her friends are leaving soon as well.

I understand people pretty well, must be my feminine side :-)
but even I dont get why she is staying with him and will stay probably after I leave.

I know she doesnt love him anymore, I know she thinks hes a child so even forgetting me, why does she stay and not either get out to me or to being single or another better guy!!!!

Thats what I dont understand. Shes pretty much throwing her life away for a lower quality of life in a very poor area of Japan with someone she doesnt love or even like most of the time...

Pride maybe, I dont know dont get it at all!

Forgot to add you are right about being stuck with the loser 24/7
Her son is starting school full time, I wont be here, her friends wont be here so she will be on her own all day just waiting for him or working in a dead end job.
I do think shes crazy, I admit I've lost some pride and my career suffered because I moved to be with her, but I have the education and background to go to the UK and get a very good job again and have a good quality of life, he doesnt.
She stays with him, shes got a loser 24/7 and a low quality of life with someone who in her words is "[censored]"

Just need to post somewhere supportive, feeling very bad right now.
It's not just her, I put everything into starting a new life here in Japan and its all failed. I'm living in a bedsit with hardly any money and no job.
I can't easily find a good job here so I'm stuck teaching english if I stay, if I go maybe that is the best thing but then I am on the brink of bankruptcy and I would be worse off doing a regular job in the UK than teaching here but maybe I would feel better about myself.
I just dont know what to do, I feel like I have no options not just about marriage anymore but my life.
Im pretty sure she is not a good woman and actually maybe its not worth saving but I cant stop missing her, wanting her to hold and talk to even though her behaviour is just bad.
So I dont know what to do, I stay, I struggle and I dont have a career and I dont get her back.
I go and have problems in the UK with money, struggle and pretty sure I will never see her again if I go, distance and all that...
This is such a mess...I want to do the best thing for me but I cant find it, I know if I go I'll spend my time missing my wife, I see her 2-3 times a week now, I know its Plan B and shes cake eating now but its not like a normal Plan B where the WS is close by and you know in your head they could walk back through the door and commit to the marriage.
If that door is 7000 miles away, absence is going to kill it in Plan B not bring that person back to you.

Sorry for ranting, but apart from the money problems...
If I go, we are finished, it will just finish me off the sadness of leaving again without her and we wont be back together I know that.

If I stay I have major career and job issues and she will cake eat.

Sorry for going on, I am so frustrated I cant stop crying and I havent done that for weeks!

Go back home now!!! She will follow. Just say you are going next week and then go. Right now you don't represent a great financial option to her, plus she knows she has you as a friend whenever she wants. Time to rock the boat. If she stays then you have your answer but it sound more like she won't make a decision for a very long time and just keeps you on a string.

No I am going soon definitely.
Had an argument with her today, I saw her but she was stressed about other things with her son and then spent most of the time on the phone to her friend during lunch with me. I got pissed off and I said to her I really needed to talk to her today.
Both got upset and I got out of the car.
She got angry with me and said "you know I want to be with you, you know I love you, why cant you wait for me and have patience with me"
I'm out of patience, sitting there with her she was just panicking about the OM seeing her with me!
I didn't finish it good as she had to go, very weak...feel ashamed.
I think I am done this time, I cant do this anymore, she will never ever make a decision while I am here, but the thing is WHEN i go she may follow in a few weeks/months but I dont think I want to let such a selfish woman back into my life again.
I feel so bad, I feel like going now, deleting her number, turning off my phone, just disappearing...no letter nothing.

Spike,
I'm sorry that you're dealing with all this right now. You sound so upset, can't say as I blame you.
I think you need to go somewhere else. I think you need to take a week or so and look around for a place that is suitable to you and your career. Tell her that you're leaving. She has the choice of leaving with you and making the relationship her top priority, or she can stay and her life can remain as it is, without you in it.
Again, I'm sorry that you're going through this.

Thanks for your reply.
I dont think she will come, I dont know why.
I dont get whats in her head maybe you or another woman could comment.
I know she is unhappy with him, argue a lot, problems, no sex etc and she says she wants to be with me, but she still wont leave and its so frustrating!

She says its because he is still trying for her and maybe her pride plays a part because she cant belive she cant change him into what she wants I dont know.

Her friends have said several times in the last few months if I was in a better place, back in my old career she would come to me, I dont get it, I really dont.

Wow. This is an astonishingly selfish statement. I literally would have been struck speechless.


Honestly, I think leaving and restarting your career is what you should do. Given what you have told us about your WW and her personality, you are not going to win her back through plan A. To have any chance of not only winning her back, but much more importantly, TOTALLY recalibrating her mindset, she needs to be hit upside the head with Plan B. The first statement I quoted above speaks volumes to the depth of her fog and irrationality. She has clearly learned nothing from this entire affair and if you somehow win her back, I foresee her continuing to justify her behavior at the same time as she compliments you on making money again. Simply put, she does not see marriage and commitment in a proper way to support a long term commitment and honesty.

I think at this point, the only thing that will get her to reevaluate her perspective is losing you completely. I just don't see her challenging her sense of entitlement otherwise. If you do go to Plan B, I would certainly recommend a letter explaining why you are leaving and what you need from her to reconcile. The letter I think will act as a jump start for her introspection. Also, I think clearly speaking your mind will prevent her from justifying her actions by telling herself that "spike just up and quit. He obviously doesn't love me and I made the right decision."

Good luck to you man. I know there is a point that you just cannot take anymore.

Thanks for your comments.
Yes I did have a sharp intake of breath as well. She is very very selfish, she thinks of herself that she is always thinking about other people. She truly believes thatm she;s capabale of being very giving but at the same time or 5 minutes later being very selfish.

She is basically the woman in the Meredith brooks song [censored]..

I'm a [censored], im a lover, im a child im a mother, she sings about changing from one day to the next. That is her to a tee, spot on, one day up, loving, nice next day [censored], difficult, selfish.

I understand the fog now she got angry because I'm not someone she can push around anymore, im disturbing the status quo of cake eating and her living with OM and still getting some ENs met by me.
In her favour she did come back and half heartedly make up with me.

I completely agree about Plan A, zero chance unless he gets hit by a bus of it working while I am here. She is quite happy cake eating right now, she moans about it being difficult, ha ha, but is really happy with it.

I also agree that her view of marriage and committment is possibly permanently twisted. That is a big problem, I am not sure because of her personality and her need to be desired by men and thought of as beautiful that she will ever be able to have a truly faithful long term relationship,

It occurred to me that if I am not here she may cheat on the OM and me with someone else, at least form new "friendships" with guys to get her fix of attention.

Yeah I think you are right about the letter, I was feeling very bad before, I will do that so she knows how I feel.

ALL of her friends have said for months and recently that she will come back to me if I was back to my old self, with a job etc, basically got my pride back,

WHat is weird though is if that is true, what is she doing now??? I have posted before she is seriously unhappy with the OM and with the comments from her friends that she would come back if I were back to my old self, is she playing some kind of game with the OM to get me to change? Does she stay with him because if she comes back now she knows I wont change?

The dynamic is weird, all WSs are in fog but she is not easy anyway.

Even still, she would only be back because she had nowhere else to go. It seems clear that she doesn't see her actions as wrong.



The upsetting part about her friends' mentality is that it does not address the problems with her. This mentality rests on the assumption that it is only YOU that is in need of fixing. It dissassociates your WW from any accountability and blames you for the affair. "Well, if you were just this or that and had this or that, she would come back." While you are working Plan A and striving to get your old self and pride back, you will become a better, more attractive man. But at some point, someone must ask your wife the question "Well what are YOU going to do to make yourself attractive to me as a spouse again."

You are right about that she doesnt see anything as wrong.
The best thing she says which hurts deeply is with tears in her eyes she said "why did you lose me"
i.e its all my fault, she truly believes its all my fault.
Its so f****d up,
Whats scary is that i think in her head she does think she loves me, she does think its all my fault and she does think that shes done nothing wrong!

Spike,

"""why did you lose me"
i.e its all my fault, she truly believes its all my fault.""

Oh my God, she truly thinks she is "GOD'S GIFT TO ALL MANKIND". This is to be said with a very deep Darth Vader type voice with much reverb and emphasis on the ALLLLL.

And could it actually be that she is rationing small bits of herself to tease you into becoming the man you once were? She is unbelievable!

You should RUN back to the UK without this chick.

IMHO

kirk

WOW,

Who the heck is Spike? I don't see a whole person here, all I see is a shell of man who defines his entire exitence on an unfaithful w who isn't going to become repentant and try to reconsile her M.

Spike doesn't exist. Spike is the ghost who waits fruitlessly for his cheating w to define who he is as a man??????

OK, harsh enough?

Spike, boogey out of town and get a life, please!~

Do you want to spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder, just in case she's found, yet another OM?

What about you? Are you still there or are your really a ghost of what your WW will turn you into?

I don't care a rat's behind what her R is with OM, and neither should you!

Once again, WHERE IS SPIKE?????

All Blessings,
Jerry

The more I get stronger the more I can see it,
She does think she is god's gift to mankind and loves it when she gets male attention. Its the most important thing in her life how she looks.
I do think as well she is rationing parts of herself to me. Sometimes there are bits when she is with me when she is genuine but I think a lot of the time she is spending time with me, encouraging me, trying to sleep with me just to keep the cake eating going, its not genuine a lot of the time.
But she gets angry with me for questiong her genuineness, she thinks I should be grateful for an hour or two of her time...

Yeah harsh enough but right,
I basically had a lot of problems before I met her and she did when she met me save me from depression and an unhappy life. She did love me to start with, I know that, she does look back on those times and so do I. I guess I am scared of being without her at all, not because I dont value myself but because I dont want to feel like I did a few years back when I had nothing.
I am going to go, I just wish I was in a similar boat to other BSs.
When they split or do Plan B they maybe have the same job and the WS lives quite close, emotionally I think that is easier to slowly distance yourself but knowing they are close by and they could recommit easily by walking back in the door.
WHen I go it will be a very long way away, maybe I am better without her, in a lot of ways I am sure I am, I am not blind to her behaviour but I can't rid myself of all my feelings so easily and know how depressing it will be to be back in my parents house in the UK so far away.
I guess its too much all at the same time, losing your wife is bad enough but having to go back to starting again like you are 18 again is doubly, triply bad!

Spike,
I wasn't trying to beat you up with my reply, but rather, trying to get you to change direction a bit here, as, it would seem what you are doing now is simply not working.

Your WW throws you a few crumbs by seeing you a couple of hours at a time, and then leaves to be back in the arms of her lover. Does that sound like a life that you, or any other man should be forced to live with?

You've got to do as DR Dobson suggests in "Love must be tough."
Open the cage door and let her fly.


I know it's scary Spike, it's scary for all of us even being here on this forum to begin with. We did not ask to become a member of this club, trust me. That being said, it's courage that makes a person move forward and do the right thing. Ask yourself, If I wasn't afraid, what would be the next right thing to do?


There is no shame in starting over again, none whatsoever. What do you think that nearly everone on this forum had to do after their M came tumbling down around their head? The folks here are shinning examples of the courage and resilience of human spirit in the face of adversity. I admire the he@@ out of all of them.

It's more than time, Spike, for you to begin to heal yourself and move away from the drama and trauma that your WW subjects you to on a daily basis. Heal yourself first, and perhaps, the M will follow. No guaurantees for sure, but certainly worth a try.

I do wish you luck and courage.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Hey Spike!

Forget who said it, but the phrase (and I paraphrase)

"waiting for feelings before acting is like living life backwards" comes to mind.

You know what you need to do, yet you are waiting to feel like doing it before actually doing it.

An analogy...no one feels like doing laundry, yet it's the doing it that gets it done.

Sometimes I don't feel like going to the gym but drag my sorry a$$ there anyway, knowing how great I'll feel after I'm done.

Waiting for WW to do anything is a poor choice... It's YOUR life, my friend.


In what way? Situation, outlook or attitude?


I disagree...a Plan B is as close to cold turkey as you can get.

And why do you want to make it easy for WW to recommit? It has to be her choice, and if she should decide to do it, it wouldn't matter if you were on the other side of the universe!


...not as bad as hanging around in a situation that's absolutely and categorically bad for you!

Dr Phil has said that it's better to be healthy by yourself than sick with someone else...sage advice.

L2F

Thanks for all the help I need you to be harsh.
She is a nightmare and I know now she is not going to change. She lies and cheats continuously.
She still lies to me, I've lost count of the number of lies even since we met, I should have known when we met when I discovered lying early on. She is lying to the OM now.

Its painful, but she has treated me like [censored], shes not sure of her relationship with the OM so is lying to him and cheating on him with me (if you see it from his point of view) in case it doesnt work out with him. Like she said, if she was sure about him she would not be seeing me!

Unbelievable. Cake eating at its worst.

I also know that say she came back, say Plan B worked and in her case I think it would be more because of something he does or they do to cause an end to the affair rather than anything I do, then as someone said I will always be looking over my shoulder.

She is so adept at lying, though now I know her well enough to work out when she is doing it, that I would always be wondering where she is what she is doing.

I can just imagine being at work, and her going for a coffee or whatever and she attracts guys like flies. She would never say sorry Im married, instead she would flirt and get a phone number and think there is nothing wrong in that.

If we were back together and we were having the slightest problems, I mean something minor like an argument over money or something to do with the home etc. she would in her mind rationalise meeting another guy for a coffee etc. thinking it was ok.

She needs male attention and I Cant see that ever changing in fact it will get worse in the next 3-4 years as she gets towards 40.

I know that she is bad news for me, I dont see any circumstance in which she can change.

The OM is in early denial and when he finds out the scope of her lying, he will drop her like a hot cake or go through months of pain like I have. If I'm not here she will be sneaking off to see another OM behind his back!

I feel sad, but there are a million better women in the world who would appreciate me not a woman whos just out for herself and f**k everyone else!

""I know that she is bad news for me, I dont see any circumstance in which she can change.

I feel sad, but there are a million better women in the world who would appreciate me not a woman whos just out for herself""

Yesss?? We all agreeee....AANNNDDD?? What the HE)) are you STILL DOING THERE??

Boy, I'm sorry I'm yelling here, but my gosh, how much more do you want to take? GET GONE FROM THERE.

It's springtime in the UK!! That's almost like springtime in Paris is it not?

I actually thought you would be in the UK by now.

YOU GOTTA GO!

kirk

And yet you hang around waiting for her to toss you a few crumbs!

What is wrong with Spike that he cannot strike out on his own without being totally codependant on a totally dysfunctional women who treats him like dog sh@@!

Spike, until and unless you learn to listen here and become a man on your owwn, any advise that continues here will fall upon deaf ears.

I feel very sad for you and your inability to be a whole person all by yourself. I do believe you need serious IC to consider why you continue to act in this manner.

I do wish you all the best, but find it fruitless to continue to offer anything that resembles advise, as you eyes are closed.

All Blessings,
Jerry