LG,

From mid-sept. through Dec. we worked with SH, did all the HNHN stuff, additionaly saw another MC on top of SH. WH was NC for that time period. I took a hard look at my own 'stuff'.

BUT WH bailed again on me end of Dec.(I didn't find out until Feb.) He said a crack opened up with a conversation with OW and it snowballed. He said he didn't know why he let it happen again and that he recognized that I HAD MADE a lot of great changes.

Sooooo...that is why I think it is hopeless at this point. He has done this to me twice. The second time might have been even worse since I thought we were both working toward recovery.

I am in the process of gathering attorney names, I don't want to hang on waiting for him to wake up. I don't think he will wake up. And OW won't rest until she has him living with her. OWH doesn't want anything to do with her anymore. I want out.

I can take this wake-up call from the universe to grow, apparently I pushed the snooze button with the first wake-up call(my son). It doesn't seem healthy to hang on.

My WH isn't like you LG, he isn't emotionally strong(has admitted that). Can't face what he has done to me and the rest of the family. Rather run off and hide with OW.

LG,

Thank you for clarifying, and I understand your passsion behind your statements now.

I'm not sure if you are aware, that for some moms, especially moms who have chosen to be home with their children instead of putting them in daycare and seeking employment, sometimes your words can come across as more about condemning them for valuing their children than trying to help them see areas in their marriage that they can improve. This is not the first time I have seen it here, that is why this time I posted. From what you have posted here, I see that is not your intent.

Don't take me wrong....I am NOT trying to tell you how to post...sure don't want to instigate THAT topic <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Just as I don't want anyone to think they should tell me how to post. From what your last post said, I now understand why you say what you do, but I think many SAHM BS's end up feeling offended instead, and so they miss the really good point you are trying to help them see.

I don't think this is coming out like I intend. I respect your views and your passion on this, LG.

Kag,

You feel this is hopeless, but it is not.

My FWH started his A a year ago this week (gag!). He left home in June and said he wanted a divorce. He came home a month later, and led me to believe that he was going to work on the marriage. I spent July-August trying to implement all the MB principles. We went to counseling every week, but FWH wasn't really yet ready to recommit to the marriage. He was just faking it all for a while.

Things blew up eventually, and he moved out the first week of September. He was gone until the end of October, when he finally came home a completely different man...broken, humble, remorseful, horrified by his behavior.

Kag, these things do happen, more often than you think.

You emotions will drag you all over....stick with the MB program if you have any inkling that you MIGHT want your marriage, if it could be wonderful, better than before.

By working the Plan, you will know that you did all you could to save your family; and you will be able to honestly tell your children that. If WS doesn't turn around, you will be able to seek divorce with NO second thoughts.

Someone once asked me here, "Think about your husband before the affair. Was he worth fighting for?"

There are many, many people here with marriages that SEEMED hopeless, but they are happily recovered now...even marriages that were miserable for YEARS before the affair.

You do have a right to divorce, and only you can make that decision.

KAG:

That's why NC is so important.

Even to this day, as successful as our recovery has been, I will avoid the OW like the plague. Because SHE has a key into me as well. And she COULD turn that key. I will not let her, but if she contacts and continues the contact, then my A could start right up again. I don't really think I will allow that to happen. But its like alcohol or cigarettes. If I never take the next one, then I do not have to worry about the one after that.

If my BS had found out about my affair about 5 months in instead of 4.5 years, I could have been just like your WH.

Attending counseling sessions with BS, but continuing to cake-eat and staying in contact. Hiding it even better.

SO, he claims not to be emotionally strong? Of course, he justifying his actions. HE is split in two, and if he can just say, "I am weak" it sort of helps him get put back together. That's the easy way out.

You CAN be DONE. That's fine. Do the whole Plan D thing and get on with your life.

However.

You have been married for 19 years. This A has been part of your M for less than 5% of your marriage.

Don't quit on it so easily. You haven't quit like that on other parts of your life.

You might be surprised at how successful your marriage can become. But you have to fight for it as hard as anything you have ever fought for in your life.

In spite of what the WH claims: That he is done, or that the marriage was wrong from the beginning or whatever they spew.

You tried after Dday. You counseled with the Harleys. WH stayed in contact and then ran away. Have YOU remained in counseling with SH? Have you entered Plan B with his guidance? You can stumble early in Plan B because its tough to do. And WH will not like it. So he will try to break it. But you get better with it.

You mention that OW is losing her H. So are you. OWH has given up. I hope you don't. That's handing the father of your children over to OW on a silver platter.

This can be saved. It will take alot of work on your Husbands part, but it CAN be saved.

LG

SMB:

Thank you for the post.

If you notice, I do very little "Drive-by" posting. I get on a thread and follow up.

I can understand your concern that some of what I say could be construed as harsh on a SAHM.

That's OK. Mostly the problem is one of typing this stuff with the same demeanor as I would deliver it in person. Which I TRY to do, but I can't type nearly as fast and/or with the same grace.

KAG has a VERY tough sitch. I understand where her WH was AT. I also understand where KAG was at. 'Cuz I was there. And so was Flamingo. KAG's personal sitch with her son is certainly more extreme, but those same issues fractured our relationship as well. So, I'm really trying to address that life before the A, and how if those issues are addressed, then this M has a chance at recovery.

Heck, as I have said a number of times around here, IF ONLY I had learned about MB 10 YEARS ago. If ONLY I had tried to look for it. But I thought I was OK. Boy, was I wrong.

SMB: keep fighting the good fight. You and TST can help many around here with your story.

LG

Yes still with SH.




Feeling like they deserve each other.


I don't think he has it in him.

KAG:

PLEASE REREAD SMB's Post about HER Marital recovery.

GO and READ her earliest posts.

She, I believe, was even more pessimistic than you.

But look where she is at.

If you ain't got Hope, you ain't got anything.

And this sitch is alot more hopeful than some.

LG

That just cracked me up. I type about 90 or so wpm. tst gets soooo frustrated when he's typing. And when I am WATCHING him type....ah, very painful for me. Just give the laptop, and I'll type for ya. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />






Thank you, LG. That is my hope, and I'm sure it is for most all of you who stick around and give your time.

Have a really hard time believing this will happen. The first time he agreed to NC he seemed resentful of me! And didn't you want to turn away at that point?



I wonder about that because we weren't meeting each other's needs. We went thru ****** with my son. It seems like too much damage has been done.


I do have a couple of lawyers lined up but I am off to FL for vacation with my boys, so I will think about it when I get back. We DID have a family vacation planned to AZ but that is NOT going to happen.

Is it worth $200 to find her parents? The only people that have not been exposed are her parents and work.

Problem is he doesn't see it as an addition, even working with SH. First it was 'destiny' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Now it is pyschobabble. He thinks there has to be reason that he behaved(behaving) this way.

I was going nuts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> knowing they were working on the same floor. He didn't think it was an issue...well here we are, it was an issue.

There IS a reason...several, actually. They just aren't the "pretty", "flowery", "destiny" kind. Here's a list to get you started:


selfishness
entitlement
sin
lust

and now...
add addiction


Why are WS's so freakin' blind! I know...the fog, the fog...

Wondering if WH will ever believe that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

How do I figure out if WH is reading this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

heck yes! You need all the help you can get. Now, her parents may not do anything and they may even support her affair. But on the other hand, they may make it clear that your H is to never darken their doorstep. Regardless of the outcome, it will cause conflict in the affair and harm any notions of a future with her family because of the embarrassment aspect.

Like Dr Harley says, 'exposure is like chemotherapy" to cancer. You need all the help you can get, KAG, I say go for it!

News...I am really terrible at plan B. WH wanted to talk last night after dropping kids so I gave in and listened.

He said he told his boss about the affair and that he had to be transferred to another office in order to save his marriage. Problem is that there would be times where he would have to go to old office for meetings. WH also willing to work with SH again which was a requirement for me.

I am away for 10 days with the boys and said I would think about his comments, but told him basically he hasn't come with a concrete NC plan. AND why should I believe this time would be different? What revelation changed him mind about doing what is necessary for our marriage. Did a lightening bolt strike him?

There are a million questions I want to ask him, like how do know she won't keep pursuing you, what did you tell her, why should I belive anything you say....but I don't want to engage in a discussion.


I have nothing to go on to believe he won't do this again, I am terrified to step into that abyss. I am keeping an arms length distance in the meantime.

He does 'feel' different though, like maybe some fog is lifting???

What to do at this point <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Kag, let him negotiate his return with Steve Harley. Steve told another member to say, "We are really close to the edge here, and I do not want to make any mistakes. I would like to get someone to help us through this. All I know is I want us to be in love again. I am not asking you for a commitment, I am just asking you to speak with him so you find out his professional opinion of what R would involve for us."[/quote]

Steve advised in the past: During this time, remain guarded and you can say that it is not that I do not care, but that I just want to ease into reconciliation.
[/quote]

You should know that this will likely lead to a resumed affair. Every time he goes back to that office he will be back to Day 1 of recovery. He will be in a state of perpetual withdrawal. He would need to negotiate a different arrangement with his boss so he is NEVER back at that office.

That sounds good....I was afraid SH would want me to let him move back in if he met the NC requirements and I am not ready for that.

It was actually his idea to work with SH because he knew that I felt like that SH was the only one that made sense and kept us going. We saw several other MCs that were AWFUL.

WH actually negotiated with the current one, who we saw once together and he has continued to see, to agree to work with us while we are working with SH. MCs usually want to work alone.

Now I haven't agreed to anything yet....since none of it is concrete. I will see what happens while I am gone.

What are your thoughts about this: The old office has 200 people in it. He would be meeting on a different floor in a different department. Most likely would not see her.

I am more worried about her constant pursuit...calling him on his cell, going over to his new office etc. I think she is a little pathological....