To Mrs. Eye:

Fact: your kids will hate OM. They will be disrespectful. They will take shots at him. He will expect you to stand up for him. You will ALWAYS be in the middle of this battle. You know your kids are right for resenting him, and yet you will expect them to treat him well. You will cause untold harm to your children with this expectation. Ultimately they will blame YOU for this.

Fact: you can expect your children to never be what they could have been with an intact family. Expect falling grades. Expect acting out. Expect experimenting with drugs and alcohol. Did you know your children will be 75% more likely to develop a substance abuse problem?

Fact: expect your children to have a negative view of relationships. Expect to hear your daughter never plans on getting married. Expect to hear that your daughter also cheats on her partners. Expect to hear from your daughters boyfriend as he breaks up with her "like mother, like daughter"...

Fact: Expect your childrens financial picture to change dramatically. Everything that would have been possible for them may not be. Your financial future will change. OM and maybe you will be paying child support. Your standard of living will drop. And your childrens' standard will drop.

Fact: expect years of uncomfortable events. Your children will lose all of their traditions. Every event from now on will be split between Mom or Dad. No more celebrating their achievements surrounded by friends and family. They will either have Dad and his circle -- or Mom and her circle. If Mom keeps OM in her circle, the children will gravitate towards Dad -- because they already know they do not truly come first with Mom.

Fact: expect years of uncomfortable events with OM's family. You will never be embraced, you may be tolerated. You will never "feel" the same toward OM's son that you feel toward your own children. Expect OM's son to hate you. Expect him to act out. You will want OM to protect and defend you from son's mouthiness and disrespect. And yet, son is right to feel how he does toward you. You destroyed his Mom. You destroyed his family.

Fact: every time you set foot in a church you will hear a little voice telling you what a hypocrite you are. You don't belong there. You don't REALLY live your life by God's word. Whatever faith you have will disappear. And OM will lose his connection and comfort from his faith. His religion is another thing he will have to give up for you. And he will resent you for it.

Fact: Expect to wear that Scarlet letter forever. Everytime you go to your kids sporting events you will have to wonder of the other parents know about you. How many of them gossip behind your back about why your marriage ended?

Fact: If you go ahead and divorce Eye, he will be fine. It won't destroy him. He's learned what it takes to have a really great marriage. Expect that he will find someone new. Expect that he will do all the right things (in the right way) and that everyone will eventually be HAPPY for him. Everyone will embrace his new choice -- even your kids. So while the kids HATE OM -- they will LOVE their new stepmom. Eventually you will lose the kids entirely. They won't want to be with you.

Fact: every relationship cools off. When that happens with you and OM, you will always have to be vigilant...you will always wonder...if he's gotten involved with someone else.

Fact: you will see Eye being a different person. You will always wonder if your life would have been better if you had just TRIED. You will be jealous of anyone Eye gets involved with.

Fact: You will soon, if not already, be in despair over how *you* have ruined your life. Expect serious depression. Really, why would either of these men want you when you are such a mess? Watch out for suicidal thoughts and plans. Get counseling. Get anti-depressants.

Fact: The only way to prevent any of this is to get rid of OM. Even if you don't recover your marriage -- OM has to be out of your life in order to repair your relationship with your children. I doubt that you have the strength to do that -- so I simply warn you to prepare for all the above.

Mrs Eye; you KNOW you've done this all wrong. Even if you wanted to leave, this isn't the way to do it. It would be completely different if you had dealt with the marriage first, before becoming involved with OM. And I speak from experience that there is absolutely no way to change or fix this outside of getting rid of OM. None of your schemes or manipulations will fix this. If you don't want the scenarios I've described above, the ONLY way is to end the relationship with him. And Mrs. Eye, you KNOW deep inside that your relationship with him is not blessed. It will only bring you bad things (karma).

And when those bad things happen? The job losses, the money problems, the kids acting out? You will know you deserve every one of them.

From one who's been there -- get rid of OM and TRY.

Bravo Lexxxy!

If my XWW was yet capable of admitting truth, she would acknowledge virtually everything as you have outlined above because they are all happening to her now. Even when her now failing adultery ends, she has already created years if not permanent damage to her relationship with her daughter. It’s a heavy price to pay for a fantasy.

WOW! Lexxy. What a moving post. I have goosebumps on my arms and tears in my eyes.

I pray she reads it and it stirs her soul. And that she realizes she is not the first to walk this path....and there is a road that leads her out back into the light.

Wow - that really is an excellent post. I really hope Mrs Eye reads it. One thing I would add is this:

Mrs Eye -

You will never ever have the same relationship with your children if you follow through with this. I know. My Mom left my father for the OM. My relationship with my mother was never the same. I dont like her. I dont respect her and I hate what she did to our family. My relationship with her is strained and if she wasnt my mother Id just as soon never see her again. I STILL view her as selfish, and I have never accepted the OM. You should also know that they were miserable after a year and are still miserable today. My mother recently said she wished she had stayed with my father.

My mother took off with the OM when I was 16 years old. I am 42 years old now. Time DOES NOT heal all wounds and you are deluding yourself to think your kids are going to "be happy for you"

Read through your husbands posts again. You have hurt him terribly, yet here he is, fighting to save your marriage and family. He is fighting for YOU. If that isnt a "soul mate" I dont know what is.

I agree, Lexxxy...FABULOUS!!!

Mrs. Eye...PLEASE WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amen JK! He has earned the respect of so many people on this board.

Want2Stay

Lexxxy...That post should be pinned to the top of the board...It most definitely belongs on Pep's Notable Posts Thread...

I wish I could have read that while I was in my affair-I honestly think it could have cleared my fog faster...BRAVO Lexxxy...My hat's off to you...

Mrs. Eye, I so hope that you read that post over and over...I want so much for you to realize how much your husband DOES love you...I want for you to have the marriage that I KNOW that you could have...What an amazingly beautiful family you have-Please don't throw it away...I really hope that you are reading, and again, I invite you to post...My email addy is in my signature line, feel free to use it anytime...

Mrs. W

((((((((EYE)))))))))

You know it's not over. Like you say this could all be part of Gods plan... remember the night you went to the N.D. site. We both felt it then... so lets pray this is but another step on your path. My prayers are with you, your kids and Mrs. Eye.

Lexxy _Wow! Great post!

Mrs Eye,

MIL left her husband for OM when her daughters were teenagers and preteen.

1 was married 4 times, now alone. She lost a son soon after first divorce to an accident while he was with the babysitter while she worked her second job. Her daughter is married for the second time. Her grandchildren are in therapy.

1 is with her 4th husband. She got pregnant at 14 and married at 15. She has 4 adult children by 3 different men and one she gave up for adoption because she was single (divorced) when she got pregnant. Her oldest was living with a guy when she got pregnant by someone else. Now married to a different guy. Her second daughter lives with another woman. Her son and his wife are in counseling. Her other son...she has no idea where he is.

1 has had multiple affairs after getting pregnant and married at 17. She got pregnant by another man and kept it a secret for over ten years. Her husband has raised that child as his own.

1 has been married for 20+ years and seems to have a good life....but she lives 1000 miles from the rest of the family. She was but 9 when MIL left with the piano teacher.

They all get together for funerals.

MIL is still married to her OM, but she sees her children, grandchildren and great grandchildren about once every 3 or 4 years and seldom for longer than a day or two at a time. Two of her great grandchildren she has never seen in person; they are 3 and 4 years old.

It's the price she paid to be with her "soulmate".

Her XH (FIL) was married to someone else for 30 years. He died and now his and MIL's children call his widow "Mom" and their children call her Grandma. They visit her several times per year, even though she lives several states away.

Just something to consider...

Mark

He'll be different with you, you're special.
Author Unknown

You two have a "connection," a rapport that he didn't have with his wife. You have more things in common, similar personalities. He's pointed out all the ways that you two are so alike - it's just uncanny. You are so lucky to have met him at this point in your life. He says that he really appreciates you for who you are - and he's the first person to really do that, isn't he? Sure, he said the same things to *her* when he got together with her (and then grew to hate so many things about her), but it's different with you. He couldn't possibly be operating from scripts anymore. And it's so nice to finally have someone YOU can lean on, isn't it? It's hard being on your own, managing a household, and doing it all yourself. All of a sudden, here's this guy offering to help in ways that no one ever did. Knowing all the things you have been longing for and wanting in a partner. He couldn't possibly be hooking into your heart-felt desires and hurt places and pretending to be the answer, because he knows that's where you are vulnerable. He couldn't be pretending to like the things you like, and want the things you want, and be the person you have been looking for, because it's part of his patterns. Just because he did that with the women that came before you, doesn't mean he's doing that with you. He's really sincere this time.

He's told you all his deep dark secrets (at least, all the ones he thinks can win him sympathy and attention). He's acknowledged how he behaved badly in the past (even though it was brought out by who he was with). You two must have a very special connection for him to be so open and "honest". And he seems to be remorseful, so that must mean he won't do that kind of thing again, right? Not with you. You're special. So what if he told his wife the same kinds of deep, dark secrets, opened up in the same way? So what if he exhibited the same kind of remorse for things he did to partners before HER? So what if he told her all the same sob stories and pretended to be working on his [censored] with her? So what if he lied to his therapist and others? He really means it this time, with you.

He says things are going to be different with YOU. Even though he SAYS he accepts responsibility for his actions, he also says that it was really things in HER that brought out his bad behavior. He's not going to be like that with YOU. Sure, he said the same things to HER, but this time he'll be different, because he's told you how YOU are different from her. (So what if he's told other people how you remind him of HER? That doesn't mean he's following the same old patterns, targeting the same types of women. That doesn't mean that he'll be turn emotionally abusive with YOU at some point...) He's such a sweet, wonderful, helpful guy, it MUST have been something in HER that caused him to act badly, right?

So what if he was busy cutting her down behind her back with their mutual friends while he was telling her she was the "best thing that ever happened to him", and that he had "never loved anyone as much as he loved her"? That doesn't mean he still has the capacity to be manipulative and dishonest and cruel. He was just confused, the poor man. And besides, he won't be like that anymore, with the right woman to love him and dote on him. She just didn't give him the kind of attention he really needed. But YOU will. So he'd NEVER do that to YOU.

So what if he didn't leave his wife before he got together with you? It's not like an abuser should spend a few years in therapy, and work on his stuff before getting involved in another intimate relationship, right? I mean, after over 4 decades of emotional abuse and being an abuser, he can get himself fixed up enough to stop harming others in a just few months, with the right woman to rescue, er, "help" him.

And those stories of how his wife emotionally abandoned him... He's just had it so ROUGH all his life! He told you how she didn't even try to keep the marriage together or say that she wanted to try to salvage their relationship when he said he wanted to separate. She was just so unfeeling! The poor man - here he was trying so HARD and all - seeing a counselor and everything! It couldn't possibly be that SHE was so emotionally beaten down by his behavior that she was RELIEVED when he wanted to leave... He couldn't have been emotionally abusive and dishonest with HER too! If his wife didn't trust him, it had nothing to do with HIM and his behavior - it must have been HER issues.

Even if in his past, he DID say, "Some of the problems I bring about by vamping, pumping up the emotional content of a situation. Of course that's easy to do with a new friend. I have a stock of techniques and behaviors, tested. I'm also inventive ... so I pick up new techniques fairly quickly ... It's just I'd rather enjoy the "romance". It comes naturally to me. I enjoy doing it. It's also a head trip for me, with my poor self esteem, to have someone so taken with me. I like the first results, the joyous feelings, the elation, the euphoria, just not where it leads." ... he couldn't possibly still have been doing that with his wife, or even YOU. He has REAL, deep feelings for you. You've even seen him cry and show his vulnerable side. That MUST mean he's sincere, right? He couldn't possibly be using YOU for an ego stroke. Not the man YOU know.

He's just so caring and sensitive and considerate. He's so sweet, rubbing baby oil all over you, making love, sending you little cards, doing all those romantic things. He really does seem too good to be true - cooking, cleaning, intelligent, literate, creative, affectionate. So what if he was like that for the first year or so with her too... before the subtle patterns of abuse started to creep in? So what if all that "wonderful" behavior shifted until he was telling her he loved her one day and then telling others how horrible she was behind her back the next? He wouldn't do that to you too, down the road. She must have brought it out in him. He couldn't possibly be playing the same game over and over again, with you as the next target. No. This time, he'll be different, with you.

So what if he has been incapable of honesty and integrity all his life? So what if he actually admitted to his wife (just about the time you two started up again): "I am afraid of truth-tellers. I have so many lies in my past and present. The truth burns." That couldn't mean that he was telling lies to YOU. After all, he was so HONEST about his dishonesty so THAT'S got to count for something... It must mean he realizes his mistakes and won't make the same ones again, right? The fact that he acknowledges things is so CONVINCING. If he acknowledges it, then he couldn't possibly STILL do those sorts of things. Sure, sure. He had HER convinced too. But he couldn't possibly be STILL lying to YOU. You're special.

Yeah, sure, he might have done those kinds of things in the past, but the past is the past, right? It doesn't have any danger of repeating itself with you. Because you're special. His love for you is so strong and your connection to each other is so different (at least, that's what he has told you, and you know you can trust him, right?), he wouldn't EVER do anything deliberately hurtful or malicious to YOU. He wouldn't undermine YOUR support network and use your friends to hurt YOU. He'd never make snide remarks about YOU behind your back and then make sure you found out about it. No no no. She must have brought that out in him. But you, you're special.

Besides, he's been in therapy. That must mean he's sincere, right? He wouldn't possibly be using the whole "therapy" thing as a cover-up to make himself look better because his reputation got damaged after the fiasco with his wife. He couldn't possibly be using contrition, and the "I feel so bad about myself"-line to get sympathy and support! He couldn't possibly be going after women who have a strong sense of personal responsibility because he knows how to manipulate that to try and get them to feel responsible for HIS sick feelings. He couldn't possibly be seeking out active, intelligent, dedicated women, so that he can PUNISH them when they don't direct all that energy to HIM. Just because he has engaged in such manipulative behavior in the past doesn't mean he would be doing that NOW. Not with YOU. You're SPECIAL.

He's so contrite and sincere about "working on his issues", he couldn't possibly be lying about that. Just because he has a history pathological lying to himself and others, doesn't mean he'll be that way with you. Besides, if he has deceived himself so completely that HE doesn't know it's a lie, then he can't be held accountable for it, right? He can always claim that he doesn't have good "memory" for things in the past. But don't worry. He won't use that sort of deception and evasion with YOU. You're special.

The poor guy just made bad choices before (you). Sure he made mistakes, but if his ex doesn't want to have anything to do with him, and now think he is mentally ill, it must be because SHE is unstable - I mean, look at how amazing and kind and charming he is with you... He couldn't possibly have been like that with HER TOO... He wouldn't be using stock romance "lines" on YOU.
This time, it's REALLY love. You're Special.

Sure, he did a *few* things in his past that were unkind, but he needs to be forgiven for HIS behavior, (after all, she drove him to it), but HER mistakes and reactions to his emotional abuse, were unforgivable. But things will be different with you. He won't think YOUR mistakes are unforgivable. He won't apply a double-standard to YOU. He won't expect YOU to be perfect and subtely criticize you when you don't measure up to his standards. You're the one who is going to change his life.

And speaking of unforgivable, of COURSE he can't forgive her for doing things that *hurt* him (he's so deeply sensitive, you see) - but he couldn't possibly have lied about the things he said she did. He couldn't possibly have "set up" situations so he could cry foul... He wouldn't have ENCOURAGED her to do things so he could later claim that he was hurt by her... And, well, even if he DID, maybe do that, he certainly won't do it with YOU. You're too special for that. Any time he tells you he's happy for you and he encourages you to do something, he'll REALLY mean it, with YOU. He won't create a revisionist fantasy of your past so that he can insist you did things to hurt him as a justification for his cruelty to you. He won't secretly resent you for not devoting all your time to him. Even if he DID do that with her, he won't do it with you. Especially after he makes all those sacrifices for you. He won't secretly be dependent on YOU for all his attention. He won't be more demanding of you and your time and resent you when you don't give it all to him. Not THIS time. You're SPECIAL.

He's such a nice guy, he won't "help" you (especially unsolicited) and then have an unstated hidden agenda like he did with all the others. He's going to claim his right to be "selfish" now, because he's been so USED from all the excessive GIVING he did in the past that nobody really appreciated. The poor guy. He's never taken time to be selfish in the past - not even when he was sitting alone in his room, sucking off his hurts, or using other people. That wasn't selfish - that was just "acting out". But he's better now. Don't worry. He won't use his new-found right to be "selfish" against YOU. No. He really is a changed man, with you. With you he will give unconditionally.

It's no WONDER he behaved so badly! Look at how his wife was always hurting him, oppressing him with her refusal to live her life solely for him, expecting him to be honest with his feelings and actions, when he just wasn't ready. And besides, he just can't handle confrontation, you know? And like, she's just so SCARY when she's upset (it's just so unbeCOMing when women display any anger!) that he HAD to act that way. She actually raised her voice at times! Can you imagine? Nobody else is allowed to have anger and raise their voice except HIM. Because, like, he can't DEAL with it, and he shouldn't be expected to! He couldn't possibly have been projecting HIS issues on her so that someone else could have his anger FOR him, or so that he could get angry with someone other than himself! He couldn't possibly have been DELIBERATELY hitting all her hot buttons to hurt and upset her so he could lay blame. And, well, even if he DID do that for years, he won't do it anymore, with you.

And if somehow you accidentally do things that "trigger" his old abuse patterns, he'll be so sweet in telling you how you are doing things that remind him of her, so that YOU can change YOUR behavior. After all, you wouldn't want him to start acting emotionlly abusive again because of something YOU did.

And you don't have to worry about that, because you'll never get upset with him, and you'll never challenge him to be honest or to accept responsibility for his actions. SHE did that, and it was "controlling," but it'll be different with you, because you know better. And you won't need to worry about calling him on his behavior anyway, because he'll NEVER lie to YOU. He'll always be completely honest and upfront with you. He won't have to "forget" any promises he made to YOU. If he is inconsiderate, it won't be DELIBERATE, with you. If he lied to her or anyone else, it was because they drove him to it. With you, he won't withhold information, or distort or omitt the truth. He won't break fundamental relationship agreements with YOU. He won't HAVE to, because you'll be right there validating him 24/7, supporting him and telling him how he's so CLEVER and BRAVE to have escaped such a horrible relationship, and how wonderful it is that he is working so HARD to overcome his terrible past!

And it's a good thing he's not going to do any of those things he might have done in the past, because then you won't have to worry about forgiving him. You see, she REPEATEDLY forgave him for the lies and the accidentally-on-purpose "mistakes", and all that did was make him feel bad about himself - that she could forgive and he couldn't. Wasn't that AWFUL of her to make him feel so bad that way? So she DESERVED to be punished even more. And she should NEVER have shown any guilt when he manipulated her. It just caused him to hurt her more. He told her it was "like blood in the water for sharks" for him. She should have known better. YOU know better. But then, he won't be manipulative and passive-aggressive with YOU. He'll be different with you. You're SPECIAL.

And sure he made her work at the relationship when he wasn't really trying, but that wasn't being dishonest - he just didn't know what he really wanted, so that made it OK to put the burden of the relationship responsibility on her. Sure he admitted that he wanted her to make him the first priority in HER life, but he wasn't willing to afford her the same consideration. But that wasn't one of his patterns. He won't do that with YOU. Besides, he admitted his dishonest behavior after he abandon her, so that makes it ok. It erases everything. His slate's clean. He even said he was sorry, months later, so that shows how sincere he was. He couldn't possibly still have been interlacing the apology with blame. He's not STILL acting manipulative and projecting issues.... and well, if he is, he's only doing that with HER because of their history - he wouldn't do that with YOU.

And it's so sweet how he still talks about how much he cared for his wife, how much he did for her out of love. Sometimes, he even talks fondly of his treasured memories of her, of how she "helped" him (when she wasn't hurting him, the witch) - that must mean he's a deep, sensitive guy, right? Maybe you can even "help" him to forgive her and heal from his terrible past... Just like SHE thought she could "help" him.

And besides, he did so many NICE things for her and all those other women. That should count for SOMETHING, right? It's not like he was emotionally abusive or manipulative ALL the time. So it kind of cancels things out, right? It's not like he HIT anyone or anything. At least the things he did didn't leave any VISIBLE marks. Besides, he probably just made honest mistakes, that's all. He couldn't have actually got off on seeing them hurt and crying. He wouldn't have LAUGHED condescendingly in someone's face while she was crying. Not the man YOU are involved with. HE certainly doesn't remember doing anything like that - and HIS memory is inviolate.

He's told you how different he feels with YOU. How different he IS with you. How healing your love is. How much he NEEDS you. What a wonderful person he thinks you are. How important you are in his life. How much he values and appreciates you, and misses you when you are not together. How amazingly transformed he feels now that he has finally met someone as SPECIAL as YOU. So what if he told her the same things? He really MEANS it this time, with you. He's a changed person, (this time, for REAL) with you. You're special.

You don't need to talk to any of his ex's to find out what he was REALLY like, because the past is the past, right? You couldn't possibly learn anything from their experiences, because he's not going to be like that anymore. It couldn't possibly be that they have anything valid to say. Besides, you trust him to tell you the WHOLE TRUTH about his past (as far as he can "remember" it), right?

And he's such a sensitive, caring guy, he REALLY does wish he and his wife could be FRIENDS now. He can't understand why she would have NO desire to have any contact with him, NO desire to have anything to do with him - after all he did for her, after what they had. After all, SHE is the one who did unforgivable things. He's so uncomfortable around her now, because of how much she hurt him. He wouldn't STILL be projecting HIS issues on her, and implying that they are HER issues... After all, he's a changed man.

But you don't have to worry. He won't PUBLICLY divulge YOUR insecurities or deeply intimate things you told him in confidence to other women - he won't betray your trust - like he did with her. No matter what happens between you and him, you'll ALWAYS BE FRIENDS. You and he will always be able to work things out. So what if he said EXACTLY THE SAME THING TO HER (and all the others) too? It'll be different with you. You're special.

He won't wait a year or two before he starts in on YOU. He won't then use his knowledge of YOUR insecurities and emotional hot buttons to deliberately hurt YOU. He won't start using psychological warfare to couch his deliberately hurtful actions in social plausibility with YOU. He won't flirt with your close friends and use any attraction they might have to him, against YOU. NO. He won't tell you that you just weren't meeting his needs or living up to his expectations. He won't expect you to read his mind. He won't try to make it look like YOU are the reason he is unhappy, and YOU are the cause of your relationship problems. He won't set you up to get upset with him so that YOU are the one who breaks it off with him, (or you get so angry with him that he HAS to break it off with YOU) and HE looks like a martyr (AGAIN). So what if he made all the same promises to her? Just because he was following some of his old patterns when he got involved with you, doesn't mean he's going to follow through on the rest of them. He's CHANGED now.

You're special. Just like SHE was when he was with HER. Just like they ALL thought they were.

YOU are the one who can "fix" his wounded ego. Your relationship with him will be So Much Better than his last ones, because you're special! With you, he'll be honest and straight-forward for the first time in his life. He won't become cruel or passive-aggressive. He won't play headgames anymore. He'll stop using and discarding people like old kleenex. He won't be rude or unkind or disrespectful like he was with those other women. HE LOVES YOU SO MUCH, HE'S NOW A CHANGED MAN. (Changed for the better, of course.) Not because of therapy. Not because he's removed himself from relationships and taken some serious time to get his [censored] together. Not because he's done any REAL work. Not because he's actually admitted to his real motivations, or made a single sincere change.

He just needed to find the RIGHT woman to "save" him from himself and "help" him become a better man, and that's YOU.

You just KNOW he'll be different with you. Right?

It couldn't possibly be that SHE was so emotionally beaten down by his behavior that she was RELIEVED when he wanted to leave...

This is for Eye's WW ....

Darling woman, haven't you even wondered ~why~ his wife is not trying to salvage her marriage?

I'll tell you why .... she is SICK TO DEATH of his long term marriage misbehaviors.

SICK TO DEATH .... with good reason.

If he had a history of being a good husband, she would be willing to try recovery (it is known that your OM has pleaded with his wife to give him more chances and take him back)

YOU are holding onto a loser - this man you think is just so fine is damaged goods rejected (with reason) by the woman who knows more about him than you ever will !

OM does not know how to be a good faithful husband - think it over.

yeah, r i g h t .... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> "a changed man" an adulteror with "ethics" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />