Stalwart...
keep trying. stay away from the porn. SHOW her everyday in some small way that SHE is who you Want, need, love and DESIRE! AND GIVE IT TIME........

Update: One month since D-Day.

We went on a date!

Just a little dinner together, but it was good. We were able to talk more and she was able to express a bit more of how things are going for her.

What is working:

Radical Honesty: This is great for just discussing things. I refuse to fight with her or argue, but I can respectfully and honestly tell her how I feel about stuff. This has really been effective. I tell her that I was a selfish a$$ when I broke her trust, but I don't beat myself up about it. I apologise and that is it.

Chocolate: I sneak little speciality chocolates (Lindt etc.) into her lunch or purse before she goes into work. On the days she is off I hide them around the house and leave a message on the phone on where she can find them.

Flowers: Every two weeks or so, depends on the life span of the flower.

Self Care of Me: Since I plan on being her hero I will get my self in good shape mentally, physically, spiritually and emotionally. She knows the steps I am taking to make sure I am in a healthy space. I tell her all of the positive things I am doing so that I can be a strong, healthy, stand up guy for her.

Plan the work, work the plan.

Hey Stal!

I LOVE the new you. The "fighting hero"! That is exactly what your wife needs. A hero that won't give up.

Wow Stal! A date. That's awesome!

I had the biggest smile on my face when you said this....



I loved the "Since I plan on being her hero...." part! And that's exactly what she needs while she's picking herself up. She needs to see you take the lead and it sounds like you are. I am sooooo happy for you.

One IMPORTANT thing here though Stal.....I want you to make sure that you are doing all of this for you too. You need to do all of this stuff for yourself so you will feel admirable. If you do things that ARE admirable, you will be admired for who you are.

What I'm about to say may be difficult for me to articulate, and may be met with skepticism or flatout disagreement by some. However, I want to tell you this in case your wife feels the same way as I. Your situation is not exactly like mine. I think my situation had way more betrayals in it, so take what I say anyway you wish.

For me, when I think of how my husband hurt me by betraying me, and disrepecting me with porn, women, unfair and unkind conversation or just flat out neglect or emotional abuse.........I don't see those actions as admirable, or that he was "a good guy making poor choices" or "mistakes". This was a guy who didn't just "fall" into an affair. This is a man who deceived me and hurt me over and over again because of his selfishness. Sometimes I think he's in an affair with himself.

I know that my husband is doing some of the things you said above, like counseling, etc and learning to become a "better man". That is WONDERFUL and GOOD and NECESSARY to have a fullfilling life for you, and to be a man that your wife HAS ALWAYS deserved. And you may well be becoming that man now.

I said all of that to say that while you may feel that you are a "better man" now, your wife may not feel that way just yet. She has a lot of hurt and pain from someone who wasn't that better man and she will need time to see if that change in you is real. If the two of you had a great marriage for a long time and this was a bump in the road, it'd be a different story. However, when you live with someone who can hurt you over and over again, and deceive you over and over again, it's hard for the BS to see you as a decent person until it's proven over time.

I am sure you do have some good and redeeming qualities to which your wife can draw from, like maybe you were a good provider, etc. But the big things that matter the most is trust, respect, care, etc. She may be a little resentful if you tell her "I am a better man now" IF that is all you ever say when your wife is upset. I think it's good that you told her you were a sefish azz and that you ARE BECOMING a better man. This stuff will take time and you need to show consistency before she can believe it. You have to believe it.

I know I am having trouble saying what I want to say. All I know is that my husband cheated, neglected and deceived me soooooooo much for the whole time I've know him that I don't SEE him as a "better man" YET. I SEE him BECOMING a better man, but I get resentful when he tells me he is already there and that makes everything alright.

I'm not discounting you or my husband for feeling "better" and you need to say and hear it from us as well. I am happy that my husband is doing things to become a decent guy, but he wasn't for a long time and those hurts need to be healed. And if your wife is hurting, address those hurts and don't just say that everything is ok now because you're a better man.

Listen to your wife's hurt, address them with your brave radical honesty, tell her you know you deceived her, your were a selfish azz, she has every right to be angry and upset, let her vent that FIRST, and then comfort her with the things you are doing to become a better man for her. Go through these steps with her when she triggers. Talk with her side by side, hold her hands, look into her eyes, and get to the CORE of her hurts. Help her to work through the pain, not around it.

Just go slow with her. ASK her is she needs to talk about anything, let her vent, listen and repeat back to her what she said, make amends by apologizing and then apologize again if she triggrs. Look for her pain and try to help her with it. Don't be defensive, after all you did do things that hurt her. That hurt doesn't go away overnight just because you apologized. She'll be in pain and may be angry at times. If you're consistent in the care of her healing, your recovery time and efforts will pay off faster.

I LOVED what you did with the chocolates and flowers AND the radical honesty, of course. Are those things what led up to a date? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> If not, what did?

I love this too.....




<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hey Mopey,

"I LOVED what you did with the chocolates and flowers AND the radical honesty, of course. Are those things what led up to a date? If not, what did?"

Thanks for the cheers. Yep Radical Honesty was the foundation for the date and it was the daily chocolates that helped. The chocolate was just a little affection reminder every day.

I have never posted my situation here, but I read every day.

My H is not having an affair with another women, he is having an affair with porn.

We had yet another d-day, and if things don't change for good this time, I'm outta here.

What you can do, is to not speak the 'I won't do it again' words, you have to show her this time. My H finally is going to a mens addiction group and seeing a counselor.

Only time will tell if he's serious this time. I've dealt with this for seven years and found out last week that all of the other times I thought he stopped for long periods of time, he never did.

It breaks down my trust for him. I lose respect for him, and one day I will just not care any more.

Don't let that happen to you, Stalwart. You have time!

Hey Sushi,

Thanks for the encouragement. I have a distance to travel for my wife to be able to trust me. She has all of my computer/internet account codes. She even has full run of my workshop. I am finally welcoming my wife into every 'room of my house' and I like to have her here.

A word of caution on addiction groups. Many people quit using other methods. In fact, other methods can often provide better results with lower chances of relapse than some types of addiction groups.

I am fortunate enough to be making lasting long term changes. These are not that flashy or dramatic, but slowly and steadily over time I am winning back my wife's trust.

I hope your husband pulls his head out of that very dark place and sees how valuable you are.

Update:

I have been working on building a relationship with my wife. I have not had anything to do with porn. She is still very reluctant to go through the MB books with me. D-Day for me also resulted in me getting some therapy. I have been diagnosed with cyclothymia which is a milder form of bipolar disorder.

I am seeing a shrink, taking lithium, and trying to get my moods leveled out. I did not realise that I had cyclothymia and was not aware of the affects of my mood swings. It has only been a little over 2 months since everything hit the fan. I am hoping that I can get effective treatment and my wife and I can build a relationship.

It has been challenging. I felt like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. I did not know when I changed. That is a major love buster and trust killer. I am grimly hopeful now. I have been messed up for years and I know it will take time for this to all sort out.

I really miss the good times we had at the beginning of our relationship. It was not all terrible all the time or anything like that. I want this to work and I want my wife back.
We used to be so much in love and her face would light up when ever she saw me.

I believe in the MB principles; I am worried that my wife will not go along with them. I understand her reluctance; me having a mental illness makes it hard for her to trust me.

At least I am still trying and hoping. Does any one know of good ways to encourage a reluctant spouse to follow the MB program?

Stal - my husband Kasey posted for a while on the emotional needs board. he got exposed to porn at the tender age of 4...

Interesting on the diagnosis - in my husband's 12 step group for SA, a number of them are on anti-depressants or lithium for similar diagnoses.

Some things to help your wife - don't try to hook her on MarriageBuilders. You just continue working to meet her emotional needs as you have been.

I get a little defensive of people trying to minimize porn addiction compared to full-blown other-woman kind of adultery. Kasey left the marriage builder board completely after so many were treating SF as an entitlement, and that porn was harmless. He knew better. I knew better. Those are the only two that matter. So I'm grateful to see that you are in no wise minimizing the harm. That will go so much further to recovering your marriage.

One thing I want you to consider. Every time you start encouraging her to leave you - that you don't deserve another chance, consider that you are asking to take the easy way out. Losing her means you don't have to continue the hard work of maintaining your moral center... it gives you an out. STOP ASKING FOR AN OUT!!! I see right through it and it's the one weakness I've read in all that you've posted that could kill your marriage and throw you into relapse.

So no more back door. Do the hard work!

Thanks KaylaAndy,

Interesting observation you made about me asking for an out. I do get defeatist some times. Time to burn the boats so that I have to stay and fight.

Porn for me was like having a mistress. There were points in my life that I easily spent an hour a day on it and often it was more like 2-3 hours. That is not an innocent passing fancy. Pornography robbed me of my time and energy. I wonder how much my perceptions of women and myself will change as I remain free from porn. Two hours a day of thinking about and using porn has to affect my thinking in negative ways.

Thanks for the support and advise.

This is the one thing that still haunts me about my husband's addiction...

That every time he kisses me differently, or touches me differently - where did he learn that - and it's a sickening thought.

So be careful that way in the rebuilding stage - let her lead. But make sure she knows she's loved!