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Of course you don't want to see her hurt. You love her. BUT...and please hear this...manya WS will make the BS feel as though they are being hurt by reasonable requests. This is manipulation. Do not fall for it.

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Balin,

I am so sorry for you having to be here. But you can take comfort in the fact you are in the right place. It will be freeing for YOU to be able to talk to others who know exactly what you are dealing with.

To me it sounds like you are starting the path to recovery. Are you guys in marriage counseling?? What about individual counseling? Have you considered this option??? I am glad you all are reading "Surviving an Affair". It will be the best thing you will have done as far as recovering your M.

About the forgetting part and forgiving part. Forgiving will come. I think you are being too hard on yourself because you think you need to forgive her right now. You are human. It may take a little longer right now. Don't beat yourself up because you can't. Forgetting?? You will never forget. The scar?? Yes, it will always be there, whether you stay married or divorce.

FH and MDEC are giving you some great advice. You are being helped by some of the best. Stay with us and we will help you through this painful time....ask all the questions you want and seek the answers you need. YOu will learn, you WILL grow, and the end it will make you a man of intergrity and strength....

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I want to be married to her.

Okay, Balin, let's start with this premise and the goal of a recovered marriage.

I don't want to mislead you into thinking that this "road" is an easy road, it is not.
It WILL get "easier" as time passes and you are both working toward the goal, but initially you will likely be "fighting" extreme emotional reactions that are normal. You have every right to feel all that you are feeling as result of the betrayal, but what we are not going to do is to use those feelings as a justification for sinful responses (though they MAY at times happen when the feelings overwhelm you).

What we are going to do is to try, both you and your wife, to learn what it means to submit your lives to God in humble obedience, to receive from God what He is making available to you, and to trust that the One who sits on the throne as Sovereign Lord WILL be faithful to His promises to you.

With that in mind, I have an assignment for you (both of you), if you are willing, that I want you to begin each day with as you walk the path of Recovery. I want you to read four short passages of Scripture. They are Philippians 4:13, Philippians 4:8-9, Romans 8:26-32, 1 Corinthians 13:4-13. Will you agree to this assignment?


Now, let's turn our attention to the statements/questions you posed in your previous post.


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There are so many questions that I have I just don't know where to start or how to phrase them.

This is normal, so don't let it bother you. We will get to all of them, and some you haven't even thought of yet, in time. So just simply post them as they come to you and don't worry about what you say or how you say it.


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How am I supposed to look back on my own life? I know I screwed up. I picked the wrong wife. I know that now.


No, you don't know that now. You FEEL that now.

How is Jesus "supposed to look back on His own life" here on earth? Did Jesus "screw up" knowing who adulterous and evil His "bride" was?

Balin, becoming a "born again" believer in Christ is about TRANSFORMED lives through the power of God, not through your or your wife's own power. We can talk more about this later if you'd like, because we still "battle" our sin-nature while we are alive but we are able to "conquer" in that battle BECAUSE we have the power and person of God within us. Philippians 4:13 will speak directly to you on this matter as you progress through recovery and the challenges of each day.


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She knew that, had I known the truth about her, that I could never be with someone with her past. So she hid it from me. She had told me about her serious boyfriend in college and that was all. All the other stuff has come out only in the last few weeks. She lied to me to get me to marry her and when I asked, she had the audacity to say yes knowing that I had no idea who she even was. She tried to hide it for a long time, but her ugliness finally came out in the greatest sin of her life. The 12 years since I've known her have contained some of the happiest memories of my life. Now, they are all tainted. They are all fake. How do I look back on those knowing that she played me for a fool the entire time?

They are not all tainted. They are not all fake. They ARE if you choose to use them as justification for unforgiveness and for rewriting history to justify your own actions. Tell me, Balin, since you became Christ's bride, have you been "holy" all the time? Have you been more "perfect" than Paul? Have you been playing God for a fool the entire time? With your "background" prior to accepting Christ, what "ugliness" in your past have you brought into your relationship with Christ?


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We have our 10th Anniversary coming up in July. I was planning on taking her away from the kids for the weekend and going to a nice hotel in Kansas City. What exactly will I be celebrating?

Did God bring you into her life? For what reason might God have brought you into her life? Here's something to think about, could it be that GOD knew what was going to happen and that He chose you for her husband because He KNEW that she was going to need you? Are you feeling a little like Jonah, not wanting to be obedient to God because you don't "like it?"

Celebrate getting to know each other and the beginning of a new life together with God as the center and the head of your marriage. Those whom God loves, He will prune and get rid of the unproductive branches in your lives so that you will be able to produce the fruit of the spirit in your lives, in your marriage, and in your relationships with others.



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What happens if/when she falls back again? I cannot keep her on the road to God. That is between her and God. I can help guide her and remind her of His Word, but I cannot control her. She has to do that herself and she has one of the worst track records of doing that I've ever seen. I just can't help but think that it is only a matter of time before she forgets about her path with the Lord and looks one more time at satisfying her selfish indulgences.

Gee, not to be flippant, but what exactly was the response of the father to his Prodigal Son? And what was the response of the Prodigal Son's brother? And what was the father's response to the brother's righteous (and selfish) indignation and anger?

You, Balin, are the spiritual head of your marriage, by the command of God. What does that mean to you?



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I have always treasured making love to her but she has never let herself give me the passion I've desired. I've told her about that many times and she agrees that she can't. But, with her history of sexual addiction, how do I desire the one thing that she needs to run away from? She had no problem showing that sort of passion to anyone who craved it, but what about me? I know that sounds selfish on my part, but I'm her husband! Isn't it right to deserve ALL of her love? Is it right for me to even want the very thing that reminds her of her hideous past?

Yes it is your "right" and it is also "right." But that also assumes that it is "right" for both of you. It does not mean forcing a spouse to "perform" in ways that they are not willing to do. The "passion" you've desired IS available and it WILL come with time as you both grow together and as she refocuses her needs to you, in submission to God's commands to her as your wife.



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She is trying to be repentent and she swears that she has been forgiven by God over the last few years. She feels that she has been completing that forgiveness now. Luke 17:3 says that, if she is repentent, that I am to forgive her. But part of me is saying that she is just getting what she wants, yet again. After her college boyfriend broke up with her, she wanted some revenge sex. Got it. Then she got sick of that and wanted a good, serious relationship. Got it from me. She then wanted to be married. Got it. She then got bored and wanted to feel that forbidden passion again. Got it from OM. She then wanted a family and couldn't get it from OM. Got it from me. She now wants to be forgiven and move on with her life in the right direction. Do I just give that to her, too?

Short answer…Yes.

I understand your thoughts and your feelings. I am NOT "excusing" her past behavior, but I am telling you that WITH CHANGE will come a person who IS walking with God and who IS the wife that God wants for you. This is also where the Romans passage will come into play for you, to KNOW that God is in control and that God WILL use all of the circumstances in both of your lives to work for good change and development in your lives that will bring Him honor and glory. It might seem tough to see that right now while you are awash with emotions, but having "been there" myself, I would simply ask you put aside judgment for now and just trust me on this one until later on when you have enough time to "look back" and assess the recovery efforts you will have both made by then.



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I know the Bible teaches forgiveness, but is that really what I'm supposed to do here?


Yes, unless you want to say that God should not forgive someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, or that God should not forgive a believer who has sinned after accepting Jesus.

Commands of God are NOT suggestions, no matter how much our "flesh" wants to scream at us, "it's UNFAIR to ME!"

Understand, Balin, that CONSEQUENCES of sin are not always erased even though the sin itself is forgiven. We can talk more about this in the context of your own marriage if you'd like, but the best illustration of this that I can give you on the "short run" is that Jesus commands us to forgive, BUT He also gives a Faithful Spouse the right to a divorce as a consequence of the adultery if the Faithful Spouse cannot choose to "Fight the Recovery of the Marriage" fight.



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I'm never going to forget this. I know that about myself. I don't forget anything. My life now has a permanent scar from this and it is all because of the woman that I'm supposed to love again. How is that possible? How am I supposed to live my life not even knowing if my wife's clothes are on while I am at work?

No, you are never going to forget the FACT of the betrayal in the past. Why should you? God never forgets anything either. KNOWLEDGE of the past events is NOT what is important. What IS important is what you do today and why you do it. God puts your sin, my sin, your wife's sin, all sins of all believer "as far away as the East is from the West." That does NOT mean that they are "Forgotten." They are forgiven and God promises to never use them against you, not because you are worthy of His forgiveness or merit his mercy, but because JESUS does and He paid the price of sin FULLY on your behalf, my behalf, your wife's behalf, on behalf of everyone who places their faith in Him as their Lord and Savior.



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I want so much to love her again and have the marriage in reality that I always had in my head. But it just seems like an impossible task sometimes. Like I said before, God has led me this far without reacting, but I am far from healed from this wound. She has no idea how much this hurts.

No she doesn't. But I do. I've been in that bottomless pit. I've felt the "soul searing heat" of the adulterous nuclear devastation. I've felt the seeming impossibility of ever surviving the depth of the pain and anguish. I KNOW that I could not have survived, that my marriage could not have survived, under my own power and with my own limited and finite resources.

God also knows. Jesus felt it many times magnified in the Garden of Gethsemene. Are you familiar with what that portion of Scripture? If so, read it again and meditated on what Jesus (the fully human man) was feeling and what the Father was "asking" Him to do for those of us who would put Him on that cross and be the cause of His receiving the wrath of God for sin, while He Himself was sinless and not deserving of any "penalty" or "pain."

But I also know that for believers there is a very thin thread that reaches all the way down into the pit. I know that all I have to do is grasp that tiny thread. I know that no matter how seemingly fragile that thread looks, compared to a big thick rope, that it is unbreakable no matter how much weight it is holding. I know that the person holding the other end of that thread IS GOD, and IS powerful enough to pull me up and out of the pit no matter how far down I have fallen. It is dark down there, but there is light at the top and it is NOT the light of an approaching train. It is the light of Love, Forgiveness, Restoration, and Healing.

The thread is there, but are you willing to simply reach out and take it, to simply "hold on" for now?



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Is that enough questions for you? I have more if anyone's willing to start!

Bring on all the questions you have. We have time. This is NOT an "overnight" process. Be "forewarned," that the average recovery timeframe is 2 years, or as long as it took the WS to get into and out of their affair. For me, that was 6 years.

Be committed to the recovery. Be prepared for ups and downs. Be reliant on God whenever your emotions flair up and entice you to "throw in the towel." It will happen, so be prepared.

Take each day one day at a time. That is also God's command. We cannot change the past, we cannot know the future, so God has told us to do what is needed TODAY and to trust in Him for the future, which HE DOES KNOW.

God bless.

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FH,

You have given me so much to think about that it has really allowed me to get rid of a lot of the negativity I'v been feeling all day.

I know that, when I think that she should not even be my wife, that I am just feeling sorry for myself. I've always loved this woman. It just hurts so much that she hid so much of her past from me even back then. I cannot change it. I trusted her back then and I have up until D-Day. Maybe I should have dug a little deeper back then, but God wanted to keep it hidden from me. He must have had a purpose. As demented as it seems to me, He had a reason for putting the two of us together.

No, of course I have not been perfect to Christ. I have been very disobedient and He is always faithful and there when I need Him. I cannot possibly comprehend everything He has done for us or how He is able to forgive us whenever we turn our heart back to Him.

It's funny that you mentionned that I'm acting like Jonah b/c that's my youngest son's name. So, you really opened my eyes with that one. I don't want to forgive and love my wife right now, but He wants me to. No matter what happens with her, I need to be able to end my life saying that I've been as obedient to God as I could. I know I can't even come close to what He wants or expects, but I sure can try.

I know that I have not been the spiritual leader of my house. I grew up not knowing the Bible and was really taught to read and study from my wife early in our relationship. I knew she was more learned than me so I did not take the reigns as being our spiritual leader. I feel ready for that now. I still have so much to learn, but I feel that God has given me the strength to take control over my house now. I am ready for that role.

She says she wants to be there in every way for me from now on, but I'm not letting her get too close yet. Two years is a long time to go through this. I guess if she thinks that's too long to go through an uncomfortable spell, then I'll have my answer as to how genuine she's being.

Now, let's talk more about your "consequences of sin" topic. You brought up the part where Jesus does make a path available to me for divorce. What if I'm not able to get over this situation? What if I cannot forget and love her in the way that I'm supposed to? Is there a point where I would realize that He is not giving me the strength to get over it because He wants me out and to do something else with my life? I completely understand now that the path to recovery and the path to divorce are equally dark and painful. I think I'm on the path to recovery, but I'm not taking my eye off the other path just in case I need to backtrack. I know I don't want the D path, but I have to be ready for anything right now. It's too early in the game.

Finally, I love your "thread" analogy. It makes total sense for me. Sometimes I just have such a hard time believing that that tiny thread is going to get me out of this darkness. It's going to take great faith to hold on with all my heart. Right now, I feel like I'm holding on to it, but I'm only a few feet off the ground - I'm making sure I won't die just in case it breaks. Eventually, I'm going to have to start moving up. That's when the real fear will start.


BH (me) - 33
FWW - 32
S - 3 & 1

Married 7/25/98
EA/PA 2/02 - 2/04
D-Day 1/23/08

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Balin...

You are newly removed from DDay. It is ok to be thinking these things and a long these lines. It is normal.

Have you ever tried journaling??? or to make it easier, start with lists. That's what I did. The first list was of the reasons I am mad at my WS. Everytime I got mad, I wrote it down. It helps get my feelings down in a neat concise order, rather than being all jumbled up in my head. It also helped take a little steam out of that anger. You are doing a form of that here, but I suggest getting a notebook and starting it up. You could also write down all these questions, so that one day they can be answered. It will also help you when you reflect later on, to see where you have been and help you re-evaluate where you are at that point in time....

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He had a reason for putting the two of us together.


IMHO, it is not God that brings together all couples. I would be careful with this reasoning.

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journaling is an excellent suggestion -

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Maybe I should have dug a little deeper back then, but God wanted to keep it hidden from me. He must have had a purpose. As demented as it seems to me, He had a reason for putting the two of us together.

I'm not sure that I would agree with what you are saying here, or at least the way that you are saying it. God believes in openness and honesty, not in deceit. While it is possible that God may not have revealed things to you at that time, it is more likely that He simply allowed the two of you to follow your choices, knowing that He would "still be around" in the future when it became evident that "doing things without God" wasn't working too well. I hate to say it, but sometimes as parents we allow our children to do things "their way" despite warnings that we have given. We aren't going to allow them to do something that will kill them, but sometimes experience lends more understanding and acceptance that someone other than ourselves may actually know what is best for us without our having to "try it for ourselves."

But one of two things WILL happen as a result of such a personal trauma. Either you will allow yourself to become more and more disillusioned with God as a loving Father, or you will learn more about yourself and gain a greater understanding of what BEING a believer means, and if it's the latter you will learn that we are here for God, not for ourselves, and will strengthen your walk with Him.



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I know that I have not been the spiritual leader of my house. I grew up not knowing the Bible and was really taught to read and study from my wife early in our relationship. I knew she was more learned than me so I did not take the reigns as being our spiritual leader. I feel ready for that now. I still have so much to learn, but I feel that God has given me the strength to take control over my house now. I am ready for that role.

Not being the spiritual leader in the home is a failing of most of us. Events such as infidelity also tend to focus the magnifying glass on ourselves, as well as the sin of adultery and the prima fascia proof that the WS was also walking AWAY from God.

If you are ready to begin to take on the role of spiritual leader, then know that it, too, will take time. You can begin easily enough, but being consistent and learning more and more about that role will take time. So don't allow yourself to become too impatient with the process.

Here is an excellent discussion about the roles of husbands and wives that was authored by another strong believer (another BS btw), Mortarman, some time ago. I think you may find some very valuable information in that thread that may have application to your own marriage.


Husbands and Wives Roles: The Thread


And here is another thread discussing Spiritual Leadership.
Question on Spiritual Leadership Role - thread of Healingbird

Spiritual Leadership



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She says she wants to be there in every way for me from now on, but I'm not letting her get too close yet. Two years is a long time to go through this. I guess if she thinks that's too long to go through an uncomfortable spell, then I'll have my answer as to how genuine she's being.

Two years seems like a long time right now because you are just at the beginning stage of recovery. Don't get too involved in "timeframes" because they differ for everyone. Just know that it's not an "overnight" deal to recover from infidelity. But the "going" gets much easier the longer you've been at it, so don't think that the "uncomfortable spell" will last throughout recovery. You will find, along the way, that there will be times when you don't even think about the affair and the recovery. Sounds strange, almost unbelievable, right now I know, but it will happen.



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Now, let's talk more about your "consequences of sin" topic. You brought up the part where Jesus does make a path available to me for divorce. What if I'm not able to get over this situation? What if I cannot forget and love her in the way that I'm supposed to? Is there a point where I would realize that He is not giving me the strength to get over it because He wants me out and to do something else with my life? I completely understand now that the path to recovery and the path to divorce are equally dark and painful. I think I'm on the path to recovery, but I'm not taking my eye off the other path just in case I need to backtrack. I know I don't want the D path, but I have to be ready for anything right now. It's too early in the game.

No, Balin, I'm telling you to "Burn the Bridge" of divorce if you choose recovery. Unless there is ongoing infidelity, you can't keep "one foot in the marriage and one foot on the divorce button."

Some will argue with me on that point, I am sure, but we are talking recovery WITH God as a covenantal partner, not about doing it on your own. Recovery is a "three-way street," not a one way or a two way street. It is you, your wife, AND God, all headed in the same direction. Someday I'll talk with you about the "triangle of marriage" as a picture of WHY you will recover and have a better marriage than you ever dreamed of having.

The "onus" for the recovery will be on you, at least initially, because you ARE the "Betrayed Spouse." While your wife was "in control" of the affair, you are "in control" of recovery or divorce. So let me cite one thing you said that deserves a little more comment and thought.

"Is there a point where I would realize that He is not giving me the strength to get over it because He wants me out and to do something else with my life?"

God does NOT want you out of your marriage. God hates ALL divorce, but He has granted Betrayed Spouses the "option" to divorce if they cannot bring themselves to forgive as He has forgiven you and me. God WILL give you all the strength you need. That is the purpose of Philippians 4:13, so that you will KNOW that God will give you all of His strength IF YOU WILL LET HIM.

We can get into the idea of forgiving as God has forgiven me (you, me, all of us who are believers) later, because it will be the KEY that unlocks recovery for you and allows you to have the marriage that God always intended for believers.


God bless.

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My husband did the same thing with the lies. I thought he was just lying about an affair I found out about. I wanted to test him just to see if he was telling the story of the affair straight, and curious about possible other affairs. But I went through 8 months of continually not getting the same answers over and over again, so I had my H tested with a polygraph. Turns out, I learned of many more infidelities. See my sig line.

During those eight months, my H "seemed" very remorseful at times. Told me "I had the whole truth" CONVINCINGLY so many times. I trusted he would never lie to me our whole marriage and this through me for a loop. I was SHOCKED all that he held back from me. His unfaithfulness went back to when we were dating too.

My H had been reading on MB that whole time too. I think he had some people fooled, he sure did me on a new level. He's also a christian. There are just some people who are willing to avoid the consequences and take stuff like this to the grave.

Considering what you've said, I think a polygraph would be in order too.


Husband was unfaithful to me before and after our marriage, at least 7 times. I found out 13 yrs into the marriage. Trickle truth for an entire year. Several different d-days, so it was more like a d-year. Difficult recovery.



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Balin, I HIGHLY recommended that you and your wife both read the book "How can I forgive you" by Janis & Springs.

It could truly help you both in this situation. That book knows how you are feeling, so do I, and it can show your wife how to help you with your hurt. It has helped us.


Husband was unfaithful to me before and after our marriage, at least 7 times. I found out 13 yrs into the marriage. Trickle truth for an entire year. Several different d-days, so it was more like a d-year. Difficult recovery.



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Over the next 6 weeks, I have learned more than I ever wanted to. I stopped asking questions long ago, but she needs to get rid of all the deceit in her heart. Every day I go home from school dreading hearing the next saga in my perfect-wife-turned-evil story. I have now learned of who, what, when, and where. She has yet to tell me why and says she doesn't know.

Balin, what purpose would a lie detector test serve? It seems from what you have written that the Lord has been the "lie detector" of choice who has been convicting your wife's heart and that she has told you about all the "who, what, and when" parts that were in need of confessing.

This "every day" dread of new revelations you are dealing with will end and you seem to have no more questions about those things. If, in your judgment, she has been giving you the truth, painful as it has been to hear, then the "baseline" for recovery has been met...that of honest confession and repentance.

But here's the thing the you will need to understand. She has had 4 years to "deal" with her actions. The Pastor gave her the correct advice, and that has been, for her, the "pressure relief valve" for the secrets that were eating her alive on the inside. In confessing to you, she had to also face what was probably her greatest fear of the moment, that you CAN and MIGHT choose to divorce you. Understand that if she wasn't willing to lose you as a consequenes of her past actions, she would NOT have confessed to you. In short, she is throwing herself on not only God's mercy, but on your mercy.

Here's a decision you will have to make. Do you want to recover your marriage with God as your partner, or do you want to do it "man's way?"

One of the aspects of recovery that we touched on were "consequences" of the sin that continue even after the sin itself has been forgiven. You have already implemented some of those consequences that are designed to not only help in restoring trust, but that are also designed to help protect her from a weakness that she is vulnerable to by being accountable to you in several areas.

It's very hard to have an affair when what you are doing is an open book to your spouse. " We now have each others email addresses and I have phone records of everything. I get the mail every day and she gives me a detailed account of every place she goes throughout the day. During my upcoming soccer season, she has agreed to go over to church member's houses or to have her mom or sister visit while I am out of town."

Balin, you, unlike us, see your wife day to day. You hear what she says and what she does. You see her attempts to restore her relationship with God and with you.

The question it would seem that remains right now is about your relationship with God and whether or not you trust HIM regardless. If you don't trust God and want to impose the "necessity" of a polygraph test, you can. Only you can evaluate everything and decide if such a test would be helpful or harmful to your recovery efforts since you have chosen to walk the path of recovery instead of divorce.

With respect the remaining question you have of "why," she may not consciously know an exact "why." But she will learn that too as you both work through recovery. If I can be a bit "simplistic" for a minute, you both already know the "why" in it's most basic form. It is sin. It is temptation. It is pride. It "seemed good" at the time, just like the fruit "seemed good" to Eve's "reasoning" at the time. Remember, temptation always "seems good" and the dark underbelly of sin is NOT presented. But obedience to God is what protects us from sin. Reliance on self is what leads us into sin.

Would you think that a 50+ man with a history of infidelities MIGHT be in a position to manipulate a "sweet young thing" who doesn't have a lot of maturity yet? Could that person be a predator, enticing her with things that "sounded good?" The WHY, I am convinced, is because she was NOT walking TOWARD God but was walking AWAY from God, refusing humble submission of her will to God's will. "Laziness" in belief for a believer can lead one to think that things like the 10 Commandments were not commmandments from the one who IS Sovereign TO those who are His servants but were merely "suggestions," leaving the "authority" to accept or reject them in the hands of the servant. God does NOT relinquish His authority in the matter. He holds us accountable for disobedience.

But think about this as you ponder the "why" of sin. Sin originated with Lucifer. WHAT was His "first sin?" Was it not "pride in self" that led to rebellion against God, that the created being could BE God? How many others "bought into" the lie of Satan?

Then think of the 40 days of temptation that Jesus went through and how He dealt with it. Remember too that Satan stated TRUTHS to Jesus, but appealed to what in Jesus as he twisted those truths that he hoped to use to "override" submission to God? Satan stated truths to Eve too, but twisted them, appealing to what in her?

God bless.

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I can't thank everyone enough for the advice and thought put into helping me in my situation. I'll respond in for detail to your post, FH, when I have more time. But, right now, I have one question.

The A ended a long time ago and there has not been any sort of meaningful contact in a long time. Do we need to send a NC letter in this case? I can't see why it would hurt, but we actually have not sent one yet.

(As mentionned, she did call the OMW to confess 3 weeks ago. OM answered the phone reluctantly that night - I was listening. NC was not directly said, but the message was perfectly clear that WW was coming clean.)

Last edited by Balin; 03/05/08 12:56 PM.

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The A ended a long time ago and there has not been any sort of meaningful contact in a long time. Do we need to send a NC letter in this case? I can't see why it would hurt, but we actually have not sent one yet.


Balin, since you are asking for my opinion I will give you my opinion. Others may disagree with it from their perspective, but you will have to decide for yourself what applies to your situation.

I do not think a NC letter is needed nor appropriate unless YOU feel a burning need for one to "formalize" your wife's commitment to you and to ending the affair.

The reason I don't think it is needed is precisely because of what you have said. The affair is long over, there has been no contact, and there is not likely to be any contact with the "accountability" factors you two have put in place.

The purpose of a NC letter is, imho, to formally end the affair(usually an active one) and indicate that there is no love for the OP, that the BS is in fact the person who is loved by the WS and to make it clear by way of stating a desire for No Contact of any sort that the affair IS over, regardless of any feelings that the OP might have.

I understand the no meaningful contact issue that you mentioned, having gone through that sort of thing for a long time in my own recovery, so if you'd like to talk about that aspect more, we can. But my stance is unwavering on that issue, No Contact is not "optional." Forgiving contact is part of recovery, but so is restating the absolute requirement of the OP being completely out of your lives for the rest of your lives as being the "minimum" recompense due you as one of the consequences that WILL attend the adultery forever.

God bless.

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FH,

Thanks fro your opinion on that. There has been contact since WW left her job. She has admitted that there were emails talking about how work was going and that they were getting quite rare. The last one was sent by OM Sep 2007 and was just casual talk about work. WW says she has not responded in a long time and never discussed anything emotional or inappropriate.

Of course, by the time I got her Hotmail password, all emails from/to OM were deleted. She did send an email the day after D-Day to tell him that I now knew about the A and that I had the email password and phone records.

This was before we read anything about NC clauses, which are obviously NOT an option from this point on. I just did not know if the formality of a NC letter was appropriate at this point since both parties are aware that life has moved on.


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This was before we read anything about NC clauses, which are obviously NOT an option from this point on. I just did not know if the formality of a NC letter was appropriate at this point since both parties are aware that life has moved on.


imho it would be appropriate if there is any further email, or other, contact. The communication line needs to be severed permanently.

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A NC letter is needed. The last contact with her OM was less than two months ago.

Get the letter out.

Polygraph. And BTW, there is nothing unChristian about having her take the test. You are under no obligation to believe a known liar. Her word should be verified.

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While it is possible that God may not have revealed things to you at that time, it is more likely that He simply allowed the two of you to follow your choices, knowing that He would "still be around" in the future when it became evident that "doing things without God" wasn't working too well.

I understand what you and MEKD are saying here. God "allowed" this to happen, He didn't "make" it happen. Sometimes I put a little too much importance on things that happen to me when I am faced with trauma.

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But one of two things WILL happen as a result of such a personal trauma. Either you will allow yourself to become more and more disillusioned with God as a loving Father, or you will learn more about yourself and gain a greater understanding of what BEING a believer means, and if it's the latter you will learn that we are here for God, not for ourselves, and will strengthen your walk with Him.

Trust me, I have grown closer to God through this giant mess. I have read more, prayed more, studied more, and listened more than I even have in my life. I can tell my "good days" are when I am spending my time getting closer to Him. When I don't make the time to read and pray as much, those days hurt more. Plus, I have to tell you that there are Christian concept that I now see for what they really are. I have never truly understood what it means to "love your wife as Christ loves the church." I also never truly comprehended how much it meant more Jesus to have dies for our sins. I still don't realize the true gravity of what He did (I don't think any of us do), but it has now struck me in a deep, personal way like it never has before. God's grace is alive in my life now whereas before, I didn't really grasp that notion.

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If you are ready to begin to take on the role of spiritual leader, then know that it, too, will take time. You can begin easily enough, but being consistent and learning more and more about that role will take time. So don't allow yourself to become too impatient with the process.

Thank you for the links to those two discussion on being spritual leaders. That topic is the most important of my life right now as I realize that that was my greatest failing. Had I been stronger, I feel like I could have helped WW more. I don't know if I could have prevented it, but I could have helped.

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You will find, along the way, that there will be times when you don't even think about the affair and the recovery. Sounds strange, almost unbelievable, right now I know, but it will happen.

It doesn't sound strange, it sounds quite close to impossible right now!

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No, Balin, I'm telling you to "Burn the Bridge" of divorce if you choose recovery. Unless there is ongoing infidelity, you can't keep "one foot in the marriage and one foot on the divorce button."

I truly believe there is not ongoing infidelity. That much I believe is true. She is a stay-at-home mom and does not leave the house except with the two boys to run errands. At night, she is with me all the time except for 2 hours on Mondays when she goes to her women's Bible study. Yes, her attendance is verified there.

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Some will argue with me on that point, I am sure, but we are talking recovery WITH God as a covenantal partner, not about doing it on your own. Recovery is a "three-way street," not a one way or a two way street. It is you, your wife, AND God, all headed in the same direction. Someday I'll talk with you about the "triangle of marriage" as a picture of WHY you will recover and have a better marriage than you ever dreamed of having.

That topic sounds like one I need to hear about. I know we have to have God be the focus of our lives right now. Through talking with my pastor and talking to WW, I have realized that one problem I think I had was that I worshipped my wife. I loved her to death and did everything in my power to please her and make her happy. Everything I did was for her. I don't think God likes it when He runs second in someone's life. In my case, it was true. My wife was my idol and I don't intend to let that happen again. I've been wondering about how to love my wife like God wants me to while keeping Him at the top where He belongs.

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God does NOT want you out of your marriage. God hates ALL divorce, but He has granted Betrayed Spouses the "option" to divorce if they cannot bring themselves to forgive as He has forgiven you and me. God WILL give you all the strength you need. That is the purpose of Philippians 4:13, so that you will KNOW that God will give you all of His strength IF YOU WILL LET HIM.

Thanks for the encouragement. Like I said before, I can tell when I have His strength compared to when I have my strength. I feel so weak so many times anymore and it is those times when I'm trying to do it without Him.

I loved the comment by Mortar in one of the earlier threads that talked about him running up ahead of Christ trying to do things for Him, when he should be just allowing Christ to carry him through life. That commentary really struck me as I also feel like I can do things myself to make my life better and easier.

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We can get into the idea of forgiving as God has forgiven me (you, me, all of us who are believers) later, because it will be the KEY that unlocks recovery for you and allows you to have the marriage that God always intended for believers.

That's what I need. If it's the key that unlocks recovery, I'll need that talk eventually. I thought I knew before, but I'm really having a hard time truly forgiving. It's not real yet.


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That's what I need. If it's the key that unlocks recovery, I'll need that talk eventually. I thought I knew before, but I'm really having a hard time truly forgiving. It's not real yet.

I'll give you a hint. It has to do with what the phrase "sin is anathema to God" means, why the Father forgives anyone of their sins, what becoming more "Christ-like" means, and what it cost Jesus to actually BE the propitiation for our sins. If you want a little more limited, but powerful example of what being forgiven and then being the forgiver is like, read the parable of the Unmerciful Servant in Matthew 18:21-35.

God bless.

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I have read the Unmerciful Servant numerous times in the past 6 weeks. It's an incredible story and I just pray that I can get there someday to show WW the love and grace that God wants me to give her. Thanks for reminding me of it.

There are so many questions that I have and I just need to investigate for a while. I can't show her forgiveness until I know what I'm forgiving. There's a few big questions still to answer and I don't find her answers satisfying at all.


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You are under no obligation to believe a known liar. Her word should be verified.

She came to me out of her own free will to tell me about the A. She had been living with this guilt for 4 years and finally broke. I did not drag it out of her nor did I pressure her into telling me. She told me out of her fear of not being saved.

Yes, she lied about details - some big. In the end, she had an A with a married man. She had sex with him multiple times and went out of her way to hide it from me. It is now over. She's admitted to some hideous and disgusting things and things she knew could easily end our marriage and break up our family.

What would I learn from a polygraph that would cause me to now, all of a sudden, say that it just got to the point where I can't try to save our M? (I'm not really being sarcastic. If there's an answer, tell me.)

She slept with him and lied about it. I know that. It was as bad as my own mind could possibly dream of. It sucks. I hate it. My life has been turned upside down right when I was my happiest.

If any more truth comes out, it's to help her become a less deceitful person. I want her to be cleansed of everything evil. If she has deceit that she needs to tell me about, I'll let her tell me because she needs to rid herself of it - not because it will change my love for her.



I hate this freakin' roller coaster ride of emotions. I was genuinely ticked off this morning, now I'm defending her. What's going on???


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