the word "any" does not work for me .... radical honesty is the first MB concept that should be applied to every marriage IMO
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Totally agree there.
If only radical honesty was a prerequisite for marriage.

Actually, MANY of the MB principles DID help us along the way to figuring out just how dysfunctional we were. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

physical safety is not one of the listed MB concepts (I don't think)

if we were to take a poll which MB concept should be applied before the others - I am pretty certain RH would be the most popular response

It isn't?

It seems I've seen it written somewhere that the Harleys would advise a spouse to separate immediately until physical abuse is ended and safety is established.

But, I could be wrong.


I concur that would probably happen. I'm guess I just prioritize danger to life/limb above just about everything else. *shrugs*

Mys

"maladaptive" is still the better term. It's assessment is relatively free from subjectivity. Although the term might connote or indicate abnormality or mental dysfunction, it simply means behavior that is counterproductive to the individual

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Maladaptive works for me
But, the more it is associated w/ abnormalities like sexual addiction it could be thought of as less subjective.

I think the term 'addiction' actually brought the issue of sexual maladaptive behavior into the limelight and there were many who felt that, at last, there complaints were being taken seriously.....but, a
long w/ that came whole new set of problems....kinda like w/ AA......I personally believe there is a difference between people who could easily stop drinking (but choose not to even if it is causing issues in their life) and those who have a true addiction to alcohol.... I think most people would call them both Alcoholics.

Here's what I found on the site regarding Domestic Violence.


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5022_qa.htm

Mys

edited to add: It's part of the basic concepts in Angry Outbursts.

If your spouse has ever hit you, or if you have ever hit your spouse, you're in a tragic and dangerous minority.
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That actually surprises me. I know so many people who have dealt w/ domestic violence. sad but true.

Nia,


If someone is having problems with their life because of drinking and can stop -- why do you suppose they'd choose to keep on doing it? We know that alcohol is both physically and emotionally addictive. So, there are certainly some people who have moved into "true" addiction in the sense that they must be medically detoxed.

What do you think the motivation would be for someone to continue the harmful behavior if they CAN stop?

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me - it makes more sense that those people might be in denial about their ability to stop more than anything else.

Ya know?

Mys

I've hit him - one time - when I found out one particularly ugly fact about what they did during affair sex - it was a knee jerk response on my part - *pop* -

it's weird, I have NO memory of hitting him - he told me about it later

What do you think the motivation would be for someone to continue the harmful behavior if they CAN stop?

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me - it makes more sense that those people might be in denial about their ability to stop more than anything else.

Ya know?
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I can answer this because I am one of them.
You are right...it doesn't make a lot of sense why someone would CHOOSE to do something they know is destructive........BUT,
I would often have a drink socially.....simply because I was int he company of people who were having drinks.......now, I knew that when I drank I could get really annoyed w/ my H and I would LB or sometimes even pick a fight w/ him (and especially when hormones were kicking in) but sometimes I selfishly chose not to give a **** about that......not because I really wanted to drink but more because I was making a choice....now, I eventually realized that I did not want to do this any longer... and decided to make the choice to NOT drink at all or make the choice NOT to LB even I did decide to have a drink or 2...and I KNOW I can do it.
So, for me...it was a choice.......but, I imagine some...maybe even you, would consider me an alcoholic because I chose to continue a destructive behavior.
But, I don't see how that label or AA would have ever have helped me understand why I choose to do what I did.

I think this is misinformed(although the people that can afford the services of the doctor most likely are not as likely to be victims of assault). I think a majority of relationships have had some level of physical confrontation...and I think it is more likely than not the woman that has at one time or another struck her H(and inasmuch, it was likely never reported). We hear more frequently about men being the abuser...society really frowns upon men striking a woman...but I think when one takes the number of women that have been battered and adds to that the number of men that have been struck by their wives, it is not a minority of relationships.
Just my 2 cents.

No...my H is not and has not been SEXUALLY ADDICTED.

He IS ADDICTED to the FEELING that he got from the OP.

He continues to get a HIGH from SITUATIONS that have FEATURES of the AFFAIR..like when he is given lots of ADULATION..

For my H, it was a PARTICULAR SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES..middle age crisis..a series of TRAGIC and MAJOR LOSSES in his life..an unavailable/unattractive/LBing wife...letting down his BOUNDARIES to form a RELATIONSHIP with a HO-ish YOUNG WOMAN who lacked MORALS...

He definitely made a DECISION to HAVE SEX with her AFTER they had established a CLOSE EMOTIONAL BOND..in which she began doing a lot of talking about HER SEXUAL HISTORY which was CAPTIVATING and INTERESTING to him..I think that took him over..when they became SEXUAL..he was GONE...like taking that first puff of cocaine...

I don't think it was his plan to leave me or divorce me..he would have played for as long as he could..his COWARDLY SOLUTION to our problems..BUT, then there was D-DAY and he had to make a CHOICE..and couldn't let go of her...

Don't like to think about this..

I ADORE the man that he is TODAY...

He is AWARE of his VULNERABILITIES...and need for STRICT BOUNDARIES..I'm pretty sure that he knows EXACTLY what he did WRONG..and purposefully made the decision to be with her THE FIRST TIME..or maybe even THE SECOND TIME...

Oh well, maybe you guys get the picture...

Fair enough. Which would you prioritize as more important? RH or physical safety?

Mys

Physical safety is first in all cases. Without this, you have nothing.

Well, back to the topic of the thread (ahem...) you know your H doesn't have a sexual addiction (which is great). The consensus seems to be that certainly not all or even most affairs are the result of sexual addiction.

So you think there is such a thing as sexual addiction (maladptive behavior, dysfunctional fixation) or whatever we're calling it now? If so, what do you think would have been different?

Mys

every FWS was at one time just as much of a HO as the OP. They too lacked morals and integrity.

My dopamine levels are also affected by sex.

Some sexual behavior is compulsive.

So is nail-biting
and playing video games all day
and picking the peeling paint off my radiators.

Compulsion != addiction

Though I'm sure they have things in common w/r/t brain chemistry.

My personal OPINION: There is a such thing as SEXUAL ADDICTION. From my understanding, there ARE biochemical changes produced during SEX that one can become ADDICTED to..I was ADDICTED to CIGARETTES..it seems to me it would be like that..a PHYSICAL CRAVING to SMOKE although you INTELLECTUALLY KNOW that it is BAD for you and could kill you but you find it almost impossible to stop..it was HELLACIOUS to STOP SMOKING..which I did 15 years ago, BTW..

Regarding my H, he didn't CRAVE having SEX with her..he CRAVED the WHOLE EXPERIENCE of HER..he described it as "ECSTACY"...

And what I meant by HO-ish is that she had a HISTORY of relationships with married men and had been married 3 times by the age of 30..whereas my H had been married to one woman for over 25 years...she WAS HO-ish..he BECAME HO-MONGER-ish.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Pep:

I think your initial point of this thread is true.

"Sexual Addiction" lets us off the hook.

As a certified addictions counselor, who is a client of mine, replied when I said jokingly:

"It would be great to have a sexual addiction!"

He got serious looking with me, and explained:

"IF you had a sexual addiction, you would want to do that addictive behavior over and over, persuing the high that it once gave you, but you can no longer get any pleasure from it. A TRUE sexual addiction would result in you have sex all the time, but gaining no pleasure from it."

After Dday, I thought I might have had a SA issue. But it was all in my mind and a justification for my behaviors.

I was in the fog and in the pursuit of someone else. Nothing more.

My WIFE gives me the DOPAMINE crazies NOW!

LG

I don't think SEXUAL ADDICTION is the cause of most affairs, though.

I think it's A MYTH that AFFAIRS are mostly about SEX.

First there's the ADDICTION to the OP and then the wayward considers SEX with the OP to be the BEST EVER...

For my FWH, the OP was his FANTASIZED IDEAL WOMAN during the FOG..

That's what's GREAT about PLAN B..getting to see the REAL OP...

"IF you had a sexual addiction, you would want to do that addictive behavior over and over, persuing the high that it once gave you, but you can no longer get any pleasure from it. A TRUE sexual addiction would result in you have sex all the time, but gaining no pleasure from it."
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This is how I have heard a nymphomaniac described.