Oops, forgot to make it clear..it's mkeverydaycnt I disagree with. Plan B got misinterpreted in this case.

I know my change in direction opens itself up for debate. I just think with such a short plan a, then b, it sent home a message that I could really be gone out of her life.

I think she needed for me to be a lighthouse. Plus, I am at a good/strong place where I can continue meeting her en without expecting anything in return.

I have changed a lot lately; she says she noticed my life is better now.

I think its safe to say she is cake eating to an extent, but I do not thinks its to my detriment.

I see her as someone who is sick, and needs help. I have bundaries with her, and they are firm.

Comments?

My comments are the same. I think by leaving Plan B you are enabling her cake eating.

That's why you have an intermediary in planB....this person is there to explain all of this so the BS isn't caught up in all the drama anymore.

Once you break planB you will never be taken seriously again. You will have shown you have no boundries.

Your WW needs to crash and crash hard, it's your best chance for success!

Firstly, a wayward's understanding is not necessary for either Plan A or Plan B to do their respective work.

Secondly, if Plan B is implemented correctly with a Plan B Letter and intermediary, it should be very clear to the Wayward what is going on. They "why" of it may baffle them, but the reality of it should be clear.

Hi refugemb!

Wow, what a story! My prayers will be with you and your boys through this difficult time. It seems you have reached a point of loving detachment which is crucial when dealing with a wayward. One of the hardest aspects that my BH had to deal with is that he took everything I said to heart when I was in my fog, and still struggles with it to this day. The fact that you can see her as sick and that you are her lighthouse is most excellent.

I think I may tend to be a little more lax in this sitch than most. I push for Plan B quite a bit myself, because I realize that many times, it saves the BS so much pain and preserves the love they have left for their WS until they reach a point of reconciliation. Plus, it expedites the process of ending the A, because obviously the AP cannot possibly meet all of the WS's ENs, so when the BS takes away their contribution to the M, the A crumbles. Plus, you have already begun a partial Plan B, and backing out now may look like a weak manuver on your part, to be taken advantage of by your WW. In other words, she will not take you seriously in the future. I agree with that...to a certain extent.

I believe this A of your WW's is an aberration of character. I feel she is completely out of her element and to be cavorting with a teenager is appalling. Her fall will be hard. When she realizes what she has done, she will be utterly devastated. The problem is, what should you do in the meantime...

This is very difficult and I thought about it a while before responding. Obviously, your Plan B was weak, (sorry) but it was effective in establishing in her mind what reality would be without you. You have maintained control of the home, finances and children, which is fantastic. You have also managed to keep her from coming back home, which is something many here on this board WISH they could have. Cake-eating, venomous waywards are poison to a family. They are not to be trusted with children and your sitch would be much worse if you were stuck with her in the home, throwing the A in your face and demanding a "nicey" D.

With that said, I feel you should insist that the A end and that the NC letter be written by her and approved/sent by you before she is allowed back into the home. If she gets a L, you may not be able to enforce this, so do it while you still can. Go to the OM's parents immediately if they do not know and tell them what is happening. I believe I read that they are members of your church and that he is living with them. They may be your greatest allies in this battle. Enlist them immediately if they will oblige.

How old are your children? What has SH said to you about exposure to them...are they too young? If so, who else can put serious pressure on this A to end? Obviously, they are fighting and falling apart on their own, so what else can be done to muck it up?

You can Plan A from a distance. I certainly would not let her back in the home until the A is over. But make up your mind...Plan A or Plan B...quit going back and forth.

IMO, I believe you should Plan A her while waiting for the A to end. You keep control of everything and remain calm and detached. Realize that she is sick and addicted and that she will fall very hard when reality bites. Let her know that you will not be manipulated, nor will you let the children be manipulated. Let her know she is not moving back in until she breaks things off with her teenage boyfriend and starts being a responsible mother, wife and adult. Tell her you will be there for her and that you have a plan for the 2 of you to be in love like never before. Tell her you will not wait forever, though...

I would give her a time frame. Tell her she has a set amount of time to do the right thing- end it and move back home or you are filing for separation, full custody and use of the marital home. In the meantime, talk to a L, find out what your rights are in your state. Do this no matter what- you need to be informed. Use the time to set up an intermediary (FOR REAL) and prepare for a real Plan B. Once that time comes, go see the L, file for separation and go completely dark. She senses your deatchment and knows you will be OK without her. This is very frightening to her. She longs to be safe at home again, but her conscience won't let her push it too much. That is GREAT! Many WSs are cold as ice and will stop at nothing to gain all they can at everyone else's expense (including their own children).

Good luck to you...I hope you can remain detached and that your WW will wake up very soon, come home, and you can begin healing from this!!!

God Bless!!

Refugemb - I think your new strategy is fine. The reasons are simple and primarily twofold.

1. You have already stated that you want to remain married and recover your marriage with your wife,

2. You are both believers and God is the one who is really in control of the situation and will use all of these circumstances to work for good in your lives. The "lessons" may be hard to learn, hard to endure for a while, and hard to live with, but you will both gain a much stronger understanding of what "walking with the Lord" means as opposed to "walking with the world, or self."

The "issue" at hand for both you is the issue of "will."




This is the "critical" agreement that MUST precede her return to the home. She chose to move out for the purpose of contact, any return must be predicated upon a choice to end the contact. There is NO room in any marriage for any "third party" other than God Himself.

Failure to agree to No Contact would, in my humble opinion, be prima facia proof that there is no real repentance to God, let alone to you for, for the heinous sin of adultery.

It will do no good to let her come home until she has "wrestled" with God first.




What ARE those "2 or 3 things"? It's important to know as they will be somethings to consider with respect to recovery efforts, but don't believe for one minute that those things are "making her happy." She is NOT "happy." She is "willful," and don't think for one minute that God will "allow" her to be "happy" with willfully sinning against Him.




From a Christ-centered standpoint. Any relationship without God is "not worth it." But you already know that. Take a step back from the trees and think about "Whose marriage is it, anyway?"

For what it's worth, it is my opinion that her affair will DIE very soon. Keep the lines of communication open, but focused on forgiveness by God and by you ONLY in response to true repentance and love for God. THEN a willingness to learn from God what a "good marriage" should be and how to "have one" wherein God also promises that you will each love each other very much. Remember, the "key" here is that "in Christ" we are all a "new creation," and that IS a promise that God will "continue the work He has begun" in your lives.

God bless.

Resonance,

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I am most grateful.

I like that expression 'loving detachment' that’s the way I feel. That outlook, coupled with my self-respect and sense of high value, I believe I can plan a.

I want to plan a more because I want her to see the changes I am making in my life. For instance, yesterday evening ww calls like at 7:00pm and asked if she can come over and spend time with the boys. We'll I was already at a friends house chomping on BBQ and having a great time. My boys were having fun playing with their kids. I told her she can meet me at the house about 8:30pm or so. She called like 3 times after that to see what I was doing. After we arrived home, she asks 'you going out on a weekday to a BBQ, I can count on my hands how many times you did that before. You were always too tired'. I said 'I know, you are right. But I've made some adjustments, I'm enjoying life more.' I could tell she was really attracted to that response.

I agree, my plan b was not the strongest in the world, but I do think it did get her attention. I think it served its purpose.

I have 3 boys; 6, 3, and 18 months. The oldest one is smart, I think he understands. I do not think the other two understand, but I can tell they miss their mom.

[i]If so, who else can put serious pressure on this A to end? I exposed hard in my first plan a to the people that matter most, including the om parents. Once she moved out, I let the sitch run it course and began focusing on me. I'm now letting God and His word 'muck it up' . The bible says in Proverbs13;15 that the transgressors road is hard. By her decisions and by God showing her loving discipline with the intent to bring her back to Himself - I hope and pray she sees the light.

So, his parents know, I told them right after she moved out.
As a consequence to the sitch, his parents along with a couple of others who are close to his family, have left my church. But what’s awesome is the church is very strong, we had a record breaking crowd this past Easter Sunday.

I am in plan A, but I also have my boundaries. I think she respects that. I made it clear that she can't move back unless no contact with OM is set - end of discussion. She knows my boys can't be around him, or that other family (she knows who I am referring to).

Like last night, as she was spending time with the older two boys, I was laying the baby down to sleep. I hear her cell phone ring, and I could tell it was him. So I go into the living room, and I tell her, 'you know that you can't talk to om, in my house, so you either leave or go outside'. She immediately got up and went outside for a 30 second conversation.

In my humble opinion (i mean that really) I have a strong commanding presence (I am a pastor) and I think to an extent she respects that and it make her feel safe. I will not compromise who I am during this whole process.

On the lawyer sitch, I have one writing up a type of LSA that protects the boys. I am waiting for that to be processed so I can sign it.

I intend to plan a from a distance, and when she comes over to my house to see the boys. I feel that I am strong, confident, still, and patient, and now I can add lovingly detached.

Resonance, you bring up a great point I really need to think about. I really need to set a timeline for this mess. What was your sitch and did you have a timeline?

I welcome all comments.

Thanks!

ForeverHers,

Thank you for your bits of wisdom. I love the line:
"It will do no good to let her come home until she has "wrestled" with God first."

You are exactly right. This is God's marriage. I want Him to be honored by it again someday.

You make a good another good point. I need to find out what the 2 or 3 things om does for her that she's afraid to let go.

What do you think about a timeline to all this?

refugemb...You are amazing!

I have no doubt of your commanding presence..it is obvious in your posts. And you have taken an impossible sitch and made it into something that you can handle on your own terms. That is rare, because As are so very painful.

I have very little doubt that you will get your wife back (the one you married!). You have played the hand you've been dealt alomst flawlessly, and I really believe that loving detachment will work wonders in this case. It is very hard to reach that point from what I have read here...but I think you've got it down pat!

Already talked to a L and everything...wow, just WOW!

Good luck to you and God Bless you!!

PS...my sitch is in my sig line as well as my husband's side. No time lines here, but I think it definitely would have worked. Hard to say, since hindsight is 20/20, though, ya know! The reason I suggested it is because you have done a great job at showing your changes and your strenth. The A is crumbling already and she longs to be back home. Your boundaries are awesome!

Thanks Resonance for those kind words. I'll check out your thread.

Hello All!

I still would like more feedback and help concerning my sitch. I value you guys on these forums.


Joseph

I don't have any new feedback. I agree with some of the others that waffling on a Plan B is not constructive as it enables cake-eating.

From your very first post I think it seemed your Plan B was working the way every BS hopes it will, so I was sorry to see you abandon it.

Have you discovered the ENs your WW mentioned?

Hey Joe,

I'm on vacation in Florida with my family. I am not ingoring your email. I'll try to jump in sometime when I get the chance.

Mr. Wondering

Greetings Dear Friends,

As my post indicates, I am now in plan a. I've been making love deposits with no LB. To be honest, my main concerning for WW is her spiritual condition. I want to be their when all this comes crashing down on her. I read Proverbs 2 in the new living translation, and its pretty clear what will happen to an adulterous woman.

I feel more concerned for her as her pastor, than her husband right now. I'm praying for her. We talk, talk and talk about all kinds of stuff. I want her to know that when she comes to herself, she can turn to me for help.

Friends, this is where I am asking for help. I've been thinking about a timeline to say to ww 'you have till x date, before I file for d'. Based on ya'lls experience, should I give her a timeline, just keep it to myself. I feel like I need one. I am prepared to go on w/o her, I feel like I'll have a good future.

The date I'm thinking of is August 15. This all started Dec 07. Is that too soon to file, I'm not sure but I need a date to work with when it comes to file for d.

Please respond guys with ya'll opinion. Thanks

refugemb,

I have been reading along with your posts. You asked for advice about your time lines. I would say you need to set dates for reevaluation of the situation. Is there any progress, if so hang in there. If there is not, then perhaps plan B is back in your future. As for your decision on a divorce, if you have set a date, that is fine. Don't tell your W. Ultimatums do not work. Simply set the date and if it comes with no progress file if that is your wish.

I must say that I see something in your posts that bothers me a bit. It is subtle and difficult to articulate because of your strong faith and your position. I sense you are acting more as her pastor than as her husband. I appreciate that God comes first in your life, but that does not mean you are to be her pastor. You are to be the head of the household, but with that comes many obligations on your part. I think FH can offer much with regard to this particular aspect of your marriage.

I would guess your W does not want to be married to her father, nor her pastor. She wants to be married to her husband. I know this is a balancing act for you, given that you do counseling yourself and you are in fact the leader of your church. Also given your deep faith, it is hard to tell you not to bring your work home with you. But, in a sense that is what I am saying.

In your W's eyes you need to be a man, a Godly man for sure, but a man. Someone she is on an equal footing with. My guess is that she has much power in her relationship with OM, given his age, his lack of skills, and how little he has to offer her. What he may well offer is a voice in her life.

These are just thoughts, but I hope you consider them. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you Just Learning. You make an excellent observation about the role my ww needs me to be.

Refuge - where did this "need" for a filing date, let alone a Divorce, come from?

You stated recently:

That has been the statement that I have been basing my advice upon, so if the game as changed to August instead of "until the gates of he11," then perhaps we should change things to more of a "how to prepare for, and recover from" a divorce rather than on how to save your marriage and recover a marriage that honors and glorifies God.

Which way do you want to proceed with this?

For what it's worth, I think JL was on the right track with his observation of her needing you to be her HUSBAND. You are NOT her pastor, you are her helpmeet and she is yours. You are "one flesh," each performing the roles of husband and wife as God has given and assigned them to each of you.

Marriage, as a type of relational representation of the relationship the ONE God has between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, does NOT have one in a "greater than thee" position, other than in the roles they accept and perform, but not in essence or substance. That is also why God created Eve FROM Adam and not from something else. Equal in substance and essence, different in roles and relational needs.

Perhaps part of the problem your wife was having that made vulnerable to an affair is a "relationship" problem. What do you think?

God bless.

ForeverHers,

Thanks for the reminder about fighting for my marriage. I lost my focus for a bit. I thought maybe a set date would help this process. Maybe I was just grasping for anything that could help my sitch

I see we had a 'relationship' problem on both are part. I have made some adjustments - big time. I've made it my passion to build a stronger relationship with ww while in plan A right now.


Since I am in Plan A, she comes over to the house to see the boys. When the boys go to bed or when they are watching a show, ww gets my time and undivided attention. She just opens up and talks about anything. Of course some of it is ww fog talk, but that really does not bother me. I use some of the reverse fog babble on some of these posts, but really she just wants me to listen.

We don't argue, or fight. I'm not needy or pushy with r talk. I feel her out, and then we engage in conversation. When we talk on the phone or in person, we seem to really connect.

My main thing with being her pastor and concern for her soul, is that I do not want my boys to have a mom that is in this condition. My motivation is for them to have a mom that is 'renewed' in the Lord. For me, that is so very important because I want my boys to be raised with Christian values.

Today we've spent 3 hours on the phone talking about us, our feelings, r talk, life, and yes about her and om. I think this is where the lovingly detachad things help. But I can listen to her w/o getting upset. She says she does not know how long its going to last with him, he's changing, but she is afraid of going back to how things were with me...

I plan on tring to be more patient...

Just sharing guys. I APPRECIATE YA'LL!

I'd like to offer a little different take on the situation.

As a pastor's daughter, I understand the pressures that "the life" involves. You said your wife was 19 when you guys married and she was all for your ministry. My mom was 17 when she married my dad who was 19 and just starting out the ministry. They set out to do great things for God.

My dad also had a very commanding presence and we (his family) had to tow the line. Over the years, the pressure of being a "pastor's wife" was extremely hard on my mom. There were unreasonable expectations put on her (by the church AND my dad) and she ended up having a nervous breakdown. She built up a lot of resentment over the years over things that happened in the church.

I'm not trying to excuse what your wife has done. There is NEVER an excuse for an affair.

When your wife returns (if she does) and if she's truly repentent, I hope that you will demonstrate true forgiveness in the same way that the prodigal son's father offered forgiveness to his wayward son. This will be critical in the recovery of your marriage, your family, and in her personal healing.

I promise you that your entire congregation is watching to see how this unfolds. You never know who will be touched by you fighting for your marriage.

I hope some of this makes sense because it feels like I'm not expressing myself very well.