Ditto!

He says he is willing to answer any questions. When I do ask questions, sometimes I repeat the same questions at different times and have gotten different answers. Other times he just says "I don't know" and when that's not good enough of an answer, it makes him very upset. He says he doesn't have a good memory at all so it's hard for him to keep everything straight in his head. My problem is the inconsistencies and when I point them out he just says "well maybe it didn't happen that way" or "maybe it did", "I don't know I can't remember." And since I never truely feel satisfied with those answers, I ask again later. Then when I ask again, he says "you already asked me that" "I already answered that" There have been new revalations recently that I had asked him about before and he told me a different story. This makes this all so hard for me because I just want to sort it out and deal with it. Having more secrets trickle out slowly over time is torturous for me. And him getting so agravated at the questioning is agravating for me. That's usually when I end up having outbursts of my own. It just goes from there. He usually gets very mad first, and then I just lay it all out there. How I feel, how this wasn't MY choice, how much I've suffered. Then when he breaks down I am comforting him to try and make him feel better. I know that I don't know everything and quite possibly am going about this all wrong and not treating him like I should. I just don't know if I'm right or wrong. I just hate that I have to feel so guilty at the end of it. I hate it because I did not do this. When I say anything like that though, he says "maybe we should just bring up all your past mistakes too" I dunno I'm just so confused. I would like to do the en's questionaire tonight, if he is willing. We have read the articles. What really hurt me though is he took one part out of an article and ran with it. It was about a letter that a woman wrote who had a one night stand 10 years ago and her husband would still bring it up and use it against her if she didn't want sex. Dr. Harley responded that what he was doing was abusive. My husband used that on me. It almost felt like nothing else from what he read had registered.

I do think as far as what is going on in his life now, he is not doing anything with anyone else and is accountable for every minute of every day. I don't know about the way he acts when we are arguing. I know I have done my share of yelling too. I just tend to feel so bad for him. Last night after he posted. He walked away and cried and said he just felt worthless and that no one could see that. He was afraid of being attacked and he said that's exactly what happened. It seems like whenever he has to talk about it he just gets depressed.

TW

He doesn't get it.

Inconsistent answers create doubt and mistrust. If the answers are different each time, they are not truthful. It's hard to remember a lie, it's not hard to remember reality. You will get " I don't remember" and "I don't know". Those are understandable when it comes to times, dates and even what they were thinking or feeling at that particular time. What actions were taken should be easy to remember unless alcohol or drugs were involved.

He is gaslighting you and blameshifting. You need to establish some boundaries. Don't protect him from the consequences of his actions. Let him feel them. You need to work on what you are responsible for and stop feeling guilty for what you are not.

You and Tiger should counsel with Steve Harley. You both need a Recovery "Plan" to follow and Steve will help you with that.

Also, Tiger needs to know he cannot cherry pick the Harley articles which suit his blaming others or that help him to point fingers.

The Harley principles for Recovery of Adultery are all encompassing, to be followed in the aggregate.

And to be crystal clear, you (the BS) are in no way shape or form responsible for his decision to cheat as an answer to his unhappiness. He OWNS that very poor decision, not you on any level.

I know dates and times are hard. And there was alcohol involved during that whole time. There has been a few main issues where the answer changed and it was a big deal for me. I wanted to know if he ever came directly from her bed to mine. For the longest time he said no. Then I found out that he did. He came to talk to me on a saturday. I asked him point blank if he was sleeping with her. He calmed me down, told me he was probably coming back. Then went to her and slept with her that night, packed his things the next morning and came home to me. This was a huge issue to me because I wanted to know if I had been with him right after her. He lied. So it makes me doubt everything else. As far and his confusion on other small details, I guess it is understandable. I just doubt alot. He says the trust issue is understandable, however, why would he have anything else to hide? His logical explanation to me is that everything so far that has been revealed is so horrible, what more am I possibly afraid of? I dunno. I know we definitly need a plan. I'm not sure if he is exactly ready yet. Hopefully coming back and posting here will help him.

TW,

Print this and have your FWH read it and then discuss it. Someone just posted this in the recovery forum and it is really on the mark.

Hello, I composed this list which I thought was helpful and someone suggested I post it on this site. Hopefully it will be useful for someone in the midst of struggling to rebuild trust after the affair.

The discovery of marital infidelity is a devastating experience. Even though a marriage can often recover, sometimes the damage done is simply too great to overcome. The speed and degree of recovery is usually dictated by the behavior and actions of the adulterous spouse, in essence because they are the one that brought an outsider into the marital union. Often, however, the adulterous spouse has no idea what to do, or how to behave, in order to help rebuild trust in the relationship. Therefore, I have composed this guide to assist the adulterous spouse in helping to rebuild their marriage.

If you are the cheating party, you'll need to print this list out and put it in your pocket. If you are the victim of a cheater, you might want to provide your spouse with this list as a reference.

#1 Stop lying. If you love the other man/woman, admit it; if you're not sure you want to remain in the marriage, say so; if the victim spouse presents evidence of the affair, own up to it. You need to understand that the worse thing that could happen has already occurred...you slept with someone else. Therefore, continuing to lie, twist, or deny is simply adding insult to injury. If you are looking your spouse in the eye and claiming to want the marriage to work then you cannot continue to lie about various odds and ends. You have been lying to your spouse for the entire duration of the affair, therefore, if you continue to lie now, it sets the reconciliation process waaaay back. The victim spouse likely knows the answers to the questions they are asking, or can usually find out, so if you are interested in rebuilding trust in the relationship, simply STOP LYING.

#2 Do not get defensive or assign blame. This is not the time to employ the old adage of "the best defense is a good offense." This is the time to be contrite, remorseful, empathetic, compassionate, honest, and emotionally available. Do not say anything at this point which will give the impression that the victim spouse drove you to cheat, or in any way contributed to your behavior. There will be plenty of time to pass the blame around later on during counseling sessions, or during times of productive conversation with your mate. Additionally, do not waste time blaming the affair on anyone or anything else. Do not point the finger toward temptation, being under the influence, or falling prey to a stalker. The victim spouse will see right through these excuses and will view this as another attempt to keep them in the dark while you continue playing them for a fool. The best way to effectively deal with your spouses anger, and start the process of rebuilding trust, is to take complete and full ownership of your selfishness, immaturity, or basic destructive marital behavior.

#3 Cut any and all possible ties with the other man/woman. Keeping a person in your life with whom you have had an affair is like trying to put toothpaste back into the tube. Not only is this a confusing message to the other person, it is extremely disrespectful to your spouse. It does not matter if you have known this other man/woman since kindergarten, it is time to break those ties. Once you have allowed another individual to permeate or undermine your marital union, there is no place for this person in your life. You simply cannot expect your victim spouse to move past the affair as long as you continue communicating with, seeing, or having any type of relationship with this other man/woman. It is in fact an insult to the intelligence of your current spouse for you to purport that you can maintain a professional, platonic, or otherwise innocent relationship with this destructive individual. Furthermore, because this person had an affair with a married man/woman, your current spouse knows they have absolutely no respect for your marriage. Continuing to work with, hang out with, email or chat with this person is probably the single worse possible thing to do if you are wanting to repair your marriage. This is the time to figure out which relationship is the most important to you, either your marriage or the relationship with the other man/woman, and behave accordingly. You simply cannot drive in two lanes at once.

#4 Your life must be an open book. You no longer have the luxury of coming and going as you please. Once you have abused that privilege, it takes a while to get it back. Therefore, if you will be late coming home from work, or have had a change in plans, inform your spouse. Every time you leave home your spouse is now wondering if you are going where you say you are going. The best way to ease their insecurities is to check in throughout the day. Invite your spouse places you usually go alone like to the game, the gym or the mall. Let your spouse know that you have nothing to hide. Additionally, do not hide your cell phone or set the ringer on silent. If your spouse requests, give them your email and voice mail pass codes. In fact, if you have nothing to hide then offer your spouse the codes without them having to ask. Don't lock your cell phone, call log or address book, and keep the credit card statement in plain view on the kitchen table. Although your spouse may never choose to check these things, the simple fact that you made them available for his/her perusal will be a huge step in regaining their trust. Although you may feel as though this is a violation of your privacy, you need to know that these steps are absolutely necessary if you are trying to rebuild trust. Saying that you are on the straight and narrow, while continuing to hide your cell phone, is counterproductive to your stated goal of wanting to rebuild your marriage.

#5 Be prepared to answer any and all questions about things that your spouse has a legitimate right to know. Your spouse is going to want lots of details and ask questions you may not want to answer, but too bad. Your spouse is going to cross reference your prior stories and ask you to confirm if "this" or "that" was a lie. You simply need to fess up. The worse thing you can do is to conceal information because you don't want to hurt your spouse. Remember, they have already been hurt beyond belief, so continuing to withhold additional information gives the appearance of an attempt to continue the deception. No, your spouse does not need to know the exact places, times, and positions in which you were intimate with the other man/woman, but they do need to get a general understanding of how intense the relationship was, and how long it lasted. Although this may be one of the most difficult steps in the process, it is one of the most important. It is extremely difficult for a betrayed spouse to know that there is another man/woman in the world who has more information about their marriage then themselves. Therefore, asking multiple questions helps the betrayed spouse get up to speed, thus obtaining necessary information to deal with feelings of being in the dark while their spouse was gallivanting around with their lover.

#6 Do not attempt to dictate the length of time the victim spouses recovery should take. You are the one who brought the outsider into the marriage, and therefore, are in no position to dictate when the victim spouse should be "over it". The truth of the matter is, the victim spouse will never fully be "over it", but may simply learn how to mentally move past the affair. When a person is hurting, they typically share their pain with the closest person to them. As their spouse, you are the one they will vent to, even though it is you that caused the pain. Additionally, you may feel as though since you've confessed, apologized and vowed to remain faithful, things should now return to normal. That is simply not the case. One of the worse things that can happen is for the adulterous spouse to begin acting as though it's "business as usual". Deciding to remain in a relationship after your spouse has cheated is a major decision and one which can be both humiliating and stressful. Do not downplay the magnitude of that decision by behaving as though nothing happened two weeks after getting caught cheating. FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS, the adulterous spouse needs to periodically wrap their arms around their mate, kiss them, and thank them for another chance. Additionally, acknowledge how much you hurt your spouse, how difficult it must be for them to get over the pain, and vow to do whatever necessary to make things better...forever. Although it may seem as though such actions will revive the pain, that is simply not the case. Acknowledging the degree of pain you put your spouse through, and expressing appreciation for another chance, gives the victim spouse the impression that you not only are mindful of their pain, but that as long as you are aware of their struggle to overcome the ordeal, you will be less likely to make such choices in the future.

#7 Do not behave inappropriately or create future problems. Don't put yourself in situations which will cause your victim spouse undue stress. Spending time with attractive, available singles, or forming relationships which could take focus away from your marriage or family commitments, is certainly not wise. Once you've rebuilt trust in your marriage, then it is okay to revisit these outside relationships. But for the time being, try to stay away from the bachelor parties, solo trips to Vegas, or nights out with the girls. Additionally, make your spouse aware when you anticipate coming into contact with the other man/woman. If you suspect the other man/woman might be at the holiday party, let your spouse know in advance. Also, if you run into, or have contact with, the other man/woman unexpectedly, let your spouse know as soon as possible. Nothing is worse than finding a recent email from the other man/woman that the victim spouse did not know about. It gives the impression of further secrecy and deception. Trust me, it won't hurt your spouse to know the other man/woman is contacting you, as much as it will hurt them to discover you hid that information. Believe me, during this time of broken trust, full disclosure is always the best route.

Lastly, but most importantly, make sure you are truly ready to be faithful and committed to your marriage before attempting to rebuild trust. Nothing is more devastating to a victim spouse then learning to trust a person who betrays them again.

Thanks D,

Who

Hi TW... I just posted to your WH. I hope he has not run off and stopped reading the responses that people are giving him to help him understand what he has done. Take it from one who knows...he is still lying. He is still gaslighting you into feeling sorry for him. DO NOT FALL FOR IT ANY MORE!!!

My mama always told me...If you tell the truth, you never have to remember what you said.

Here is what I suggest. Make a list of questions you want answered. Spend some time on the list (maybe even days)...really get as much in there as you need to know. Give him the list and tell him you want every answer in full and complete honesty, no matter how hard it is for him and no matter how much he thinks it will hurt you. When he gives it to you...go somewhere alone and read it and process it. If you get angry, he will most likely retreat again, and you do not want that to happen.

As I told your WH, my DH and I came here at the exact same timeframe that you have. Almost one year with NC, and nine months of me doing everything possible to "make it up to him" (yeah, right!) There was just one little problem...I was still the same entitled, self-absorbed WITCH to him that I had always been. The mind-shift had not happened. I was still making excuses and shifting blame. Crying over my mistakes and making him feel like he should feel sorry for me. Sound familiar?

The reason I tell you this is because I thought we were in recovery, too. We were NOT! I do not really consider us starting recovery until the day I came here and got myself straightened out with some [censored]-whooping by the very people who are helping your WH now. So, he may as well get ALL THE CARDS OUT ON THE TABLE NOW so that you can really start from here and begin to recover. It will never work until this happens. You will keep spinning your wheels and it will destroy you.

((((((TW)))))))

You will be OK...we are all here for you!

Tigerswife,
First off, your husband is a royal POS for attacking you for harassment based on that letter Harley published. It shows he either has absolutely no understanding of what he has read here, or that he is willing to do anything to control you through guilt and fear.

The fact that he is changing his answers is much more likely to be a result of continued lying than a faulty memory. But there is one way to set your mind at ease. Polygraph test. If he flat out refuses, you can be about 95% certain he is simply lying to you.

Hi TigersWife - I'm so pleased you started posting here. These people are the best and can really help you.

God Bless.

Thank you everyone for your responses! I really appreciate it. No, WH has not run off, he is at work right now. He will be home soon and hopefully be willing to come back. Andrew- What more do you think he could be lying about? Just getting the story out clearly? Or do you think it's more? My main concern about all of this is that if he was willing to lie to me so much about his affair, then what if he is lying about his use of pornography. He told me that he has gotten over that. But there is really no way for me to know for sure. I believed him before the affair. I asked him in the past about a polygraph test and he refused. That was before I knew the truth. But he still says that he wouldn't do that because it is going too far. I don't think he would. I don't know for sure though. Would have to ask him. Also, I know he is going to want to read my posts. I'm kind of scared of how he might react to some of the responses I've gotten here.

Well the polygraph thing is a huge red flag that he has a lot more he is hiding.

I would insist on one.

He will start singing like a canary if that is on the table.

On the plus side - real recovery is possible when you are working with the truth.

If he doesn't like these responses, I suggest you move on for him.

WOW - we haven't even warmed up yet.

So if he never responds well to what others are saying to me and him here, are you saying it's hopless for us?

I'm saying he needs to have a total mindshift and if he doesn't have that epihany it is hopeless.

The responses have been very mild to him in all truth.

He always has been ultra sensitive. He takes things so hard. He is the type of person that wants everyone's approval and for everyone to be happy with him.

Approval is easily obtained for people doing the right thing.

Martyrdom is never a good look.

Yes, I know. I will try and talk H into posting again tonight. I told him last night that it meant alot to me that he would be willing to do that. I just hope he can stick it out even though its hard at first.

It will say a lot about his willingness to help you recover - much more than empty words.

From what I have read so far, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he blames YOU for what we are posting to you and him. This is his pattern and YOU will feel guilty about it. But in reality TW, you cannot control posters in cyberspace, but somehow you will take the blame. Don't.

I was afraid that might happen, but it didn't. He came back on tonight and he seems to have embraced the idea of posting here for help. He posted again and I can tell that alot of things that have been said to him are sinking in. I wish I would have started posting here sooner. I am already feeling so much better and I have so much hope just knowing the resources available to us here.