Refuge - there are many things we could talk about concerning this good desire, but let me get down to "street level" for a minute about one point and kick it around a little, not from a "disagree with it" standpoint but from a "let's look at it from a different perspective standpoint.

"My main thing with being her pastor and concern for her soul," is the concern of all believers, not just pastors. We are all equal in the sight of God, and while we all have differing roles that we perform within the body, the "starting point" for each us, as well as our concern for each other, is our RELATIONSHIP with God. Given that all people who have truly accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior ARE "saved," her soul is not at issue. What I think you are talking about is her "walk," her "relationship," her "surrender of her will to His will," her "life directed by God" as opposed to life directed by self.

But my concern with your statement is the use of the term "pastor." It would be much more "comfortable" to hear your mindset more along the lines of My main thing with being her husband and fellow believer and concern for her surrendering her life choices to the will of God.

I suspect that it would also be more "comfortable" for your wife. She needs to hear YOU, not a "pastor." That may be a bit counterintuitive to you in your "role" of pastor, but we are not talking about a celebate monk here, we are talking about a MAN who is married to a WOMAN, as God intended for marriage to be when He first ordained it.

You hurt, for yourself, for your children, and for God. She needs to hear that. You hurt for what you may be realizing were your "shortcomings" in performing your God-given role as her husband. She needs to hear that.

This marriage is God's. It can't be His unless the two of you are willing to surrender to Him, to make choices that bring Him honor and glory, to evaluate your individual and joint choices in the light of "nevertheless not my will but yours be done Father."

It's not easy. It hurts. Change often does hurt, but it hurts more when WE ourselves have to make the changes. But it's easier when we know we don't have to make the changes alone. ALL believers have had to, and will continue to, make changes. Peter did. Paul struggled with it daily. It is common to all of us. It's also why God has told us that all of the "problems" we face and have to deal with are ONLY the ones of TODAY. We take it, by God's direction, "one day at a time." We leave the future in His hands. We may not trust ourselves or our spouse, but we CAN trust God and follow in simple submission to His leading.

God usually does not transport any of His sheep who have wandered away from the safety of His pen instantly. He LEADS them back, in much the same way that He(as our risen Lord) walked along the road with the men, talking and teaching and causing them to remember.

So let's remember for a minute. What attracted your wife to you and you to her "way back in the beginning?"

Make a list. I know that sounds a bit simplistic, but there's something about writing it down and being able to see it and read it right there in front of you. Then, when the time is right, why ask your wife to read it and add her rememberances to the list. Let it be a starting point.

God said "know your spouse." That's a complete knowing.

But maybe along the way you both forgot some of that knowing.

Let's remember it.

And remember, God is in the restoration of relationships business.

God bless.

princessmeggy,
Thank you for sharing. It makes sense...

If I may ask, did your parents stay together?

refuge, while you are waiting for Princesmeggy to respond, I thought I'd let you know that a friend of mine is the wife of a pastor, and he was the one who had an affair. It cost him his church, that he had founded, but they are still married and doing well today.

There are consequences, but God does heal and restore relationships. Repentance and forgiveness are wonderful things when done "God's way."

God bless.

Yes they did but there's more to the story. My dad left the church because he became very ill. My mom had to go to work and ending up having a brief affair with a co-worker. My dad found out, the affair ended and my parents recovered.

Dad got a little better and they began traveling in the ministry. He became a different person, where before and during my entire childhood, his message was more along the lines of "fire and brimstone", his message became about God's love, forgiveness and healing. It was amazing to see the transformation.

Dad passed away several years later at the age of 51 and Mom stayed by his side until his death. She has since remarried. She is more laid back now than she's ever been in her life. She still loves the Lord but does not attend church. Her words, "I've had enough church to last a life time."

refugemb,

I cannot say it as well as FH and I think PM brings some very good insights to this as well.

But, let me try it from my point of view. I have a deep empathy for those that have had a calling in their life for most of their life. I was gifted with such a calling when at 10 years of age I KNEW I wanted to be a scientist. Now well over 50 years later it is still my passion. The hardest thing for me and even within my marriage was to balance my passion with the reality that my family did not have that passion. Further, they did not want to really hear about it with regard to what I do for research. It was not their passion.

Now you are in a slightly different position. You have also been given a gift of your passion to be a minister. You have had it along time. Further, it is a passion that touches the lives of those around you. In my mind it makes it very difficult to quit being the pastor and be the husband, the Dad.

But, you must learn to do this. Further, while I am not sure FH was saying exactly this, let me offer my "first" impression of something you have said.

Your job is rear your children with Christian values. But it is not your job to address your W's soul. That is God's job. She has to come to her believes in her own way. Very much as FH mentioned the prodigal son. You should worry about her safety, her happiness, her welfare. But her soul is within my mind NOT YOURS to trifle with. You must have faith that she will be led back to you, IF you respond and show you are the husband she needs and wants. It may not happen, we are given free choice in this life and then are held accountable for our choices.

Finally, you said you are listening more. I think that is wonderful, I am betting she does as well. Most of the pastors I have had, have had lots to say.

Refugemb, you are on a path of learning and healing, and I think FH is dead on that your church is watching you. As you grow, as you see your failures and address them, I think you will become an even better pastor.

I am often reminded of a story related to me by someone in the biological field. He had a friend that studied dolphins. A young student was trying to teach the dolphins to jump through a hoop. Most of them did it easily the first time. But, one refused to do it. This young student tried for days. Finally his supervisor sat and watched and noticed the studen did not seem to be holding the hoop vertical. He mentioned and the student held the hoop vertical and the dolpin jumped through the hoop easily. The question at hand was who was training whom?

As painful as they are, your trials are an opportunity to grow,learn, and appreciate many things from a different point of view. This will happen no matter what your W decides. This is your journey my friend and only you can take it.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks ForeverHers,

I understand what you are saying. I did not mean to sound that I am carrying myself around her as 'me pastor you saint' role with ww. Thats not it at all. when we are together, I am confortable, relaxed, confident, and focused on her - so that we can build report. Thats my approach to her, which I make very non-threatning and very personal.



What I'm expressing to ya'll guys is my prime motivation, her spirtual well-being, to me thats very important. I care about her personal relationship with God more than her relationship with me. If that makes sense. I want to be her lighthouse to a better place in life.

I express to her my faults in all this, my mistakes. I'm very real with her.

make sense?

OK. WW DRAMA UPDATE.

WW is in a pickle. She has not turned the gas, light and trash in her name. Landlord is turning off her lights tommorrow. WW is thinking of counting her losses (april rent) and moving back in with family friend she stayed with when she first moved out.

She knows I do not want my kids over her that families house. She asked me if I could 'sleep over' my friends when she comes over to see our boys, that way she can have alone time with them. I don't want to do that...

She intends on saving for an apartment. Plus her temp job ends Friday, and she starts a new one next week (3 month contract)

When this kind of stuff happens I think she resents me more. In her ww mind, I have the job, and income to leave and get an aprtment - I'm just making things hard on her to prove a point. This is not the case. I try to tell her this...

I think I should just continue to plan a from a distance, stick to my boundaries for conditions to come home. But what do ya'll think?

Boy, I sure hate it when that happens.


Waywards do their best thinking in the cold and dark.


Offer to clean out a corner in the garage for her or put up a pup tent in the back yard.


She is a wayward and can not hear you or anything else that makes sense. Your logic would make more sense to a lemur.


"Exxxxxxxxcellent" - Mr. Burns

Rhetorical question in response to your question, Refuge.

Have you heard of the Prodigal Son?

Sometimes it takes being in the "pen" before the darkness breaks and the light of God begins to reveal the truth of MY choices.

Make no mistake about it, God DOES "turn up the volume" if we continue to resist Him. It sounds as though God is turning up the volume of the consequences of her choices and actions.

Let's see if she'll hear or if you will try to "do it for God" on your own.

It's hard, I know, because you love her. Think about how God feels...."How long I have wanted to gather you under my wings...."

May you feel the peace of God and the wisdom of waiting patiently on the Lord's timing.

God bless.

Thanks for the reply ya'll:

I am having a rough moment today with the consequences of my sitch. The statewide leader of my religious organization found out that my wife and I are separated. I’m not sure how much he has heard. He left a voicemail for me to speak with him concerning the situation. I'll call him later today.

This phone conversation will be real difficult for me. I respect this man highly, and I feel like I let him down. I also feel a sense of humiliation. I can sense how one can become resentful toward ww.

I already had to resign my elected position (my own choice). I feel many of my ministerial dreams are shattered. Although that feeling does not sting near as bad as my shattered marriage and family – yet it hurts nonetheless.

Yet, I sense that God is able to pick up all the shattered pieces of my life and make something beautiful…

I have wonderful friends and support team, but truly, they can’t really fathom what I am going through. That is why I come here, because I feel you guys understand. You are all my MB family.

Thanks for being here...

Refuge,

I have been in your situation, and thought about resigning from my ministry for probably some of the same reasons you have thought about. However talking to a close friend of mine who also is in leadership was encouraging. Someone I respect and was frightened to be honest and talk about my sitch with.

He told me not to resign, he said that it's not the situation it's how the person handles the situation that matters most. Are you following Christs example in the ways you act towards your wife, are you showing her the unconditional love your Lord and Savior has shown you? If you have you are walking the right path.

Remember, Satan is alive and well in this world. He would love to destroy you and your ministry when it can have the most impact to those around you. I will add you and your WW to my prayer list this week.

I had a wonderful friend who has since gone to be with the Lord, he used to ask me where his sword was... he always referred to his Bible that way. Where is your sword, go find it because you are going to need it and the armor of God to get through this.

Be strong brother, the army of God is on your side. It's an army that has never lost a battle.

NRO

NotReallyOk,
Thanks for the encouraging words. I have my 'sword' handy at all times. I could not make it w/o it.

Looking at your stats, we are around the same age. Do you have a post of your sitch. Would you mind sharing?

Many Blessings...

Certainly:

My Story

I too am in church leadership. I am not a pastor, but am a Deacon. My FIL is a retired pastor.

You did NOT "let him down." Your wife let God down.



This is a "normal" feeling, as if you need to be "perfect" and your marriage needs to be "perfect." We are not perfect, we are all sinners in need of God's grace and mercy. No believer is "immune" from sin, so what we need to remind ourselves of is that God is in the "restoration of relationships" business.

And that, too, is the objective of church discipline, of "rebuking, correcting, etc.". It is NOT the objective of punishment or condemnation of the person.

We, believers, are all part of the family of God, and we all feel for each other and support each other as family should.

God bless.

Hello my MB Family:

I'd like to give you guys an update. The phone conversation went well with our religious official. He was very understanding. As listed in our policies for 'separation or divorce' I have to meet with the 'district board' to ensure that I did not do anything to disqualify myself for serving the church I lead.

I told him the facts of ww, and that I am willing to work on m.
He said meeting the board is a procedure that it should not be a problem for me or the church. I understand that, it just something I’m looking forward to doing.

Last Thursday ww came over to spend time with the boys. After the boys went to bed she sat next to me on the couch. She asked me how the phone call went with church official (I told her about it earlier in the day when she called). I told her that I have to meet the board concerning marriage my sitch.

She was really upset about that. She began to repeat over and over, 'I'm so sorry ws... I'm so sorry for all this' - I did not acknowledge the comments. She began to tell me, 'You tell them it was my entire fault, that you did nothing wrong, I'm the one with the problem.. I can go with you and tell them myself' 'I don't want them to make things difficult on you or the church'. Pure ww talk I know…

Then she does something way out of the ordinary. She says 'I'll be right back', she comes back to coach with a bottle of lotion and begins to message my back. Guys that was weird. This is the first time since we've been married 10 years that she's given me a message. I've always been the one to give the messages. As she is messaging my back we are talking about church stuff, boys, anything and everything for about an hour. She then leaves.

Guys this is weird. I know ww speak in fog talk, and that an a is the ultimate sign of disrespect and betrayal. Yet through this mess, she seems to want to protect my ministry. I don't understand this part of ww at all. I've told her numerous times, that I would resign the church if it meant working on our m. I am not putting the church over her. This is just part of the insanity of fogland.

OK, remember I'm doing a distance Plan A. But please feel free to give me your 2 x 4 over the head or just ya'lls $.02 - Here I go...

This past Friday she came and picked the boys for the weekend. A friend of hers (a girl) as supposed to go over her place, but backed out. I kind of sensed that she wanted me over her place. Later that night, she invited and I went. Second time to her rent house, first extended time over.

I brought over some movies for the boys and then for us, plus Starbucks. When I got their om stuff was here and there. It did not bother me, I know he is living there. Her place was messy.

Me and ww hung out and played with the boys till we put them to bed. We talked, laughed, teased, and watched a movie. It was late so we both fell asleep on her two couches. I got up to leave early in the morning, but she wanted me to stay.

I stayed till I had to take my son to his baseball game, and hung out with ww and kids till afternoon (fyi: it was her weekend to have the kids). As I was leaving she was very warm, affectionate, huggy and stuff.

I don't read to much into ww actions. I think she is major cake-eating. I can talk to her about om. She says she knew he would not be over her house this past weekend, but she did not want him to know I was over there. She lied to him.

I feel like such the om now. I am so calm and collected about when she talks to me about her messed up life with om. She says (of course this is coming from a ww) they fight a lot and talk about breaking up frequenntly. I just listen. Is this how plan a from a distance is supposed to be? Am I supposed to be meeting this type of en for conversation.

WW says om is scared that she is going to come back to me. He does not have a car, no place of his own, and only a part-time job - loser. She says he is drinking and smoking too much. She has to pick him up from parties after he gets too drunk.

This is all too serial. My plan is this ya'll. I think I can plan A little longer to show her the improvments. I have made to me and the things in my life. To offer to be there for her, in good times and bad through her fog.

Whenever we interact, I want it to be pleasant, comfortable, enjoyable – a safe place from all the mess she is in. I want her to have a good experience when we are together. That includes meeting her en's with no expectations.

When I am around her I act as if she is not my ww nor my w but a girl I am courting. I am confident, relaxed, and assertive. I act like a jerk to her and then I turn it around and I am sensitive. Its like a silly little game of building attraction and report.

I think all this will hit me hard, but right I guess I'm just focus on this game...

She is coming over tonight to see the boys and to stay until it is time to put them to bed. In light of my plan a, any suggestion on how I should be around ww? Should I change my strategy a bit.

Emotionally, I hope to do this type plan a till end of May, then re-evaluate to see if I need to enter into a solid, no turning back plan b.

Please guys, tell my what ya'll think. Do you see any holes in my plan? Am I off target? I feel like this is all too crazy…

Thanks for being there guys…

One more thing guys. I forgot how to change the subject of my post. Please fill me in. Thanks

Refugemb,

IT sounds as if your plan a is getting some traction. Here is the deal with plan a, that is often forgotten. It is about YOUR boundaries. You need to have them, you need to know what they are, and you need to protect them. As long as your actions are consistent with your boundaries, and your vows, you are cool.

At least that is my take. There is nothing about plan a that says you cannot be around her. And further, as you are, as you listen to her, you are planting seeds, you are nurturing those seeds AND you are setting up for plan B to be more effective.

The goal is for the affair to end and to show the WS that there is a way back. Plan B will be necessary if the affair continues because while seeing OM's stuff around now didn't mess you up, seeing it over and over will erode your love for your W. Plan B is to protect your love for your W. If you lose that love you will not have the strength to recover the marriage if/when that opportunity comes around.

Seems to me you are doing well, but start to read about plan B, start to consider how to do it. It takes time to assimilate the subtle aspects of plan B especially when their are children involved.

God Bless,

JL

I agree completely. And the first thing I have heard that Steve and Jennifer ask when they do counseling is--how are you feeling? As long as you are OK to continue, then go for it! The key to Plan A is to be sure you are showing her your changes, being the lighthouse, ect...without being a doormat (which is where the boundaries that JL was talking about fit in). You are doing a fantastic job with it! Just be sure that you are ready for Plan B at a moment's notice, because you may find that all of a sudden, all of these things hit you like a train and you need to get to solace very quickly. Until that time...Plan A your heart out!

This A is on the rocks. She is starting to crack, and seeing/believing your changes. Yes, it's all fog babble, but she is letting you be there for her and as long as you are cool with it, keep on keeping on!

Good luck and God Bless!

Things are working well don't change. Hoid the course.