Wats:
ML's advice to you was given in the context of preparing to go into Plan B, sooner rather than later, unless I'm way off in my interpretation of what she was saying. I don't think she was suggesting that you stop contacting your WW if you were intending to remain in Plan A. I think what she was telling you is that you needed to plan for and implement Plan B.

There's only so much you CAN do in Plan A with your WW moved out.

Review with me: you've exposed to everyone you can think of that might help? You've identified your failures in the marriage and worked to correct them? You've told your WW that you still believe in the M and are confident that you two can find a way to be happy together, but that it cannot happen while she is having an A?

How long have you been in Plan A? Are you seeing any positive effects as a result of your efforts? How are you holding up personally? Are you starting to build alot of anger toward your WW? Starting to question if this is all worth it?

Really, what you do is up to you. I do believe that while in Plan A you should be seeking to spend time with your WW, and you need to Plan A your [censored] off without being a doormat in the time you're able to get. I already said that though didn't I? Its a fine line Wats, learning to meet needs without compromising yourself and facilitating cake eating on her part.

Perhaps the next time you send her a text message, it should be something like: "I still believe that we can find a way to be happy together. I have found a plan that I think may work for us. Why don't you lose OM, come over for dinner and we can begin doing what we should have been doing all along?"

I dunno Wats, I'm hoping someone else will pop in and give you some direction as well.

I just don't know that a long drawn out Plan A with little contact with WW is going to do much for you other than hurt you longer. You gotta get in there and fight for your M, until you aren't wanting to fight for it anymore.

It is good though that for the most part you aren't doing anything to make things worse. There's alot to be said for that, seriously!

Ahh, Tyk, thanks for the advice. Strange that when we are apart I want to hold her and love her but when we are together, I feel anger and want to tell her how much she is hurting me. She doesn't attempt to contact me unless it's business/children.
I just got a call from my lawyers office and he says that there is a separation agreement from my WW there and wants me to come in Monday and review with him. My lawyer states that the agreement has no reconciliation clause in it and that the home/property will be in my name and she will have no claim on it.....so sad....

I've only been in Plan A sort of since she moved out on the 5th of Jan. but I'm really not seeing any results.

What about child custody? If I recall your children are old enough to decide where they want to be, is that right?

I would suggest putting a signature line with your "stats" if you wouldn't mind.

Don't listen to your wife too much, keep asking her, don't get angry, make a game of it. "ok, well I asked her to do this this way last time, I'll try this this time. . "

Another critical part of Plan A is to really have NO expectations!

I'll get stats up but our children are 20(DD), 18(DD), and 17(DS). She wants joint custody of our son but he will be 18 before the end of the year.

So, you suggest I continue Plan A and ask/invite her todo things with me. I can see this being very very hard because whenever we speak I want to tell her how much she is hurting me by having this A but I have spoken to her and kept my composure and I've been kind and loving. I just tested her and asked her to call me when she gets off work. I was going to ask her to go to the movies w/ me Sunday but I feel very strongly that I want to tell her I just got my birthday present from her (my birthday was yesterday...41) and it was the notice from my lawyer about the separation agreement! Wow, that really really hurt.

Well, what are your options WATS? Try, fail, and get divorced. Try, succeed, and recover your marriage. Don't try, hope your WW has and epiphany and recovery your marriage. Don't try, and get divorced.

I will say that some parts of my Plan A were very good. I was however very horrible and "laying off" WW. I pushed R talks WAY MORE than MB recommends, I was constantly trying to occupy my WW's time, forcing (as much as one can force anyone) to do things with me, even though much of the time we weren't getting along or enjoying each other's company. But there would be moments, even through all that, that we would connect a bit, then WHAM! her walls would come back up and I'd be left tortured and hurt.

There's no way around it Wats, it sucks, its going to suck, until you either succeed, or fail, learn from it, and move on. You're going to be hurt any way this goes. Personally, I chose to be hurt while trying, instead of hurt while not. While nothing is certain, it worked for me, and that's all I can really tell ya!

I agree.....I'll ask her out and see what her response is and I'll let you know. I'll talk with her a bit and try to catch a high moment and then ask her.

Okay,
I sent my WW a text asking her to call me after work Friday and she did we talked a bit and I got her on the defensive early in the conversation....unfortunately. We talked a bit more and I invited her to the movies Sunday...she said no thanks. She thinks/knows I will bring up our relationship and want to talk about it if we are together. We did talk Friday on the phone for a while and I told her I knew I had made mistakes and we got all into it....not arguing really I just got a lot of negative responses and things I failed at. She even made a statement insinuating she raised our children alone.....I stopped her there...I'd had enough and nicely stated we raised the children together and I told her I knew that her relationship with this other man was a circumstance of me not meeting her needs. We ended the conversation with me in tears again....and telling her I knew my mistakes and knew what needed to be done.

I texted her later on that night and basically ended up telling her that I knew she keeps pointing out my faults and short-comings to absolve herself of guilt and it seems everytime we talk she brings up something new I've done wrong...I told her I would continue to pray for re-commitment and then texted her telling her good night and I loved her and I hoped to dream again of the girl I married.

One thing I feel bothered her was that I talked about getting a second job to help us financially over the years and only did so for a short time and just here recently worked earning additional income(second job) but again only for a short time. I told her while we talked Friday that I was determined to get a second job now and stay at it but since she moved out I am the provider for our children when it comes to preparing dinner and washing clothes and taking care of their day to day needs. I can't do these necessary things in the evening if I'm working a second job....who will cook and wash and clean...who will do these things if I don't? She doesn't even aknowledge that these things need to be done and since she isn't there...I guess she thinks elves are coming in and doing them for us (me and the children).

You've gotta stop letting her get to you Wats. You aren't going to teach a WS anything, and allowing the conversations to go there is counterproductive, to the point where you'd probably be better off NOT talking to her if you can't learn to keep the conversations safe.

Realize that you are at a disadvantage in that your contact with your WW is limited. Your situation isn't like mine where I could afford to press my WW a bit, and then back off and really work Plan A. You don't have that in your situation. She says she won't go out with you because she knows you're going to talk about the M. And then you go and prove her right by pushing talk about the M!

Don't get a 2nd job now unless you absolutely have to. Your kids need you, and there's no reason for you to go and prove you can make more money with the possibility of a D staring you in the face! This is off topic, but why be in a position where you need two jobs to get by anyhow?

Hi Tyk,

I am working on gettting my finances straight. We were both poor at money management and my WW has had basically menial jobs since we were married. She worked for 2/3 years and then change jobs. Never earning much but I was extremely thankful she was helping us financially nonetheless. Once things are leveled out, I should be fine with just my current job/earnings.

We've both have needed money management skills for sometime...but recently I have stepped up, especially since she has moved out, to regain control and make my future stable financially whether she is with me or not.

You are right about the R talk. She called me yesterday and she asked me if I could pay for our daughters ticket/court costs, which I had sent to her to pay. I felt, I had paid for our sons driving school and she could pay for the ticket but she tells me yesterday she can't pay the ticket for our daughter. I tell her I'll take care of it and don't worry about it. She seemed very friendly and I told her 'don't give up the farm yet' as we said goodbye.

Again, when we talked yesterday she was very friendly and warned me agaisnt the movie I had suggested we see together....she told me it got bad reviews. We laughed about how we couldn't go out without me talking R and I told her it was hard and I was definitely working on that.

Has anyone had any luck guiding their WS to this site and would it be wise to do so considering they will read your posts?

any replies welcome

Don't bring her here now WATS. Use this as a tool to help you. Really right now all she needs are the basic concepts and the infidelity articles, you can print those off or give her SAA and His Needs, Her Needs, which are more thorough anyhow. Its likely even those aren't going to have much visible impact most likely.

Remember, part of Plan A is to NOT try to "teach" the WS. She knows what she's doing wrong.

Don't risk giving up your support at this time. You may need this site if your situation deteriorates further and you don't need to lead her here.

well taken, thanks Tyk

I've sent the OM an e-mail and I've posted it below. I've read that this may or may not do any good....I'm thinking this is useless at this point but I really don't see any harm in sending it nonetheless. I'm very grateful for the help I've been getting here and it has helped me imensely. Tyk and Mel, I thank you especially. The e-mail I sent to the OM is below.

OM,

I'm writing you asking you as a man to leave my wife alone. I want very much to save my marriage and keep my family together. With your interference and advances on WW our marriage can not heal. I'm not sure what she has told you regarding our relationship but I love her with all my heart and the thought of losing her is devastating to me. I'm sure you will relay my contact with you to her but all I ask is that you back off (no contact) and please request that she return the cell phone you sent to our home. If we are divorced then it is your prerogative to do as you please but for now please remember you are chasing a married woman and the things you've done to destroy my family are unforgivable. Also, if you are a Christian, then you know what has transpired between you and her and what you are doing is immoral. Do your parents and children know you are chasing a married woman? I wonder. I am not a bad man and don't feel it necessary to divulge our personal problems to you but I feel our marriage is very fixable. Mind you, I can't do it alone but interference from an outside source is very destructive and damaging.

If you care to reply, feel free, but I do not want to hear pleas of innocence when I know better. I personally do not wish to talk to you but want you to know that I'm aware as to the extent to which you have gone.

I'm asking you as a man and I'm not making threats against you because that is not my nature.

BS

My WW just texted me and asked when my appointment was with my attorney regarding the separation agreement. She tried to call me but I didnt have my phone at the time and missed it. I texted her back that the appointment was tomorrow.

WW got a loan not long after she moved out on 5th of Jan. and apparently she was going to use my income for the loan. She told the loan officer she was bringing one of my pay stubs back for them to use......she never did....I know the loan officer and was told about it. This is a small loan and I'm not responsible in any way for the loan as the loan officer told me. The loan officer knows we are separated and I suggested she call my WW and request my pay stub and make her squirm a bit...Do you think this is evil? Should I do that....loan officer said she would if I wanted her to. Perhaps that is just being vindictive.

Thoughts on my letter to OM or any additional advice is welcome.

Mel, Tyk...any other.....What do you think of the letter....was it worth a try or do you think it was useless at this point?

I will be reviewing the SA tomorrow and will fill you all in after reviewing it with my lawyer.

The letter was most likely a waste of time as far as having an impact on your situation. Think about it, this guy has already proven to have no honor or integrity, you're appealing to character traits he doesn't posess. Won't hurt anything either. Might cause a fight between your WW and OM, which is a good thing.

Ah, thanks Tyk, that is possible.

Like you said, it will more than likely be of little to no use but there is that possibility.

Anyway thanks for the response...I'll let you know how the SA turns out.

Hello all,

I'm back with some more information.

My WW asked me when I was going to sign the SA and I told her not until I made some changes to it and she became agitated and we began to argue a bit and I basically told her, after she fussed about the things I wanted to change, that I wasn't prolonging anything, I had just recieved the SA and it was not just about her. I told her she wanted my signature as quick as possible on SA so she could just run to her OM and I told her we might as well call it what it is which is adultery. She told me I could think whatever made me feel better and I told her if she ended up with this guy I would really be hurt and dissapointed in her and she wasn't the woman I thought she was and that she could say whatever she wanted to make herself feel better about what she is doing but the bottom line is she is leaving me for OM and I hung up on her.

After I hung up the phone she almost imediately texted me and it read; 'Saving myself while there is still something left to save.'

I responded with a text, 'Saving yourself from what? You can't continue to pin your unhappiness on me and you can't justify in any way what you are doing with that guy. I know change is necessary and I'm making those steps and I truly love you, WW. I want to hold you and kiss you and I want you by my side but I also know I can't make you do anything. I want us to be financially stable and do fun things together and there is nothing I want more than to save our marriage and share my life with you.'

This happened right after the boards went down for repair.