Lexxxy-

First, who said that he has the problem? It seems like they had a pretty excellent marriage, aside from her being a LIAR and a CHEATER.

Second, I can tell that both you and cat are women because you are attempting to justify her actions and place the blame on him. He didn't do anything wrong. She cheated on him. He wants information.

Walking through a minefield? So wait, she cheats on her husband, and he is supposed to make it as easy as possible, at the expense of his feelings? She entered the minefield when she slept with the other guy. He didn't force her there.

Again HC, it will take TIME and HONESTY to get over this. Ignore those who say different. This is not your fault, and not your problem. IMO the fact your wife has not shown real remorse is a real sticking point for you. Communicate that to her. Tell her how this honestly makes you feel. Don't allow these women on here to pretend that it doesn't matter just because it was long ago. Women are always justifying the past like that.

Thambi, it would be nice if relationships were that black and white, but they're not. They are in continuous flux, with both partners feeding off of each other's reactions. Whatever relationship they have is just as much a product of his interactions as they are of hers. I'm just suggesting that, if he wants to keep any sort of relationship with her, he consider that fact. If he doesn't want to, if he wants to continue to paint her as a homewrecker (although he himself has said he doesn't see her that way), then he can walk away from the marriage. It doesn't sound like he wants to, so I'm trying to provide ways for him to take a different look at the situation instead of making assumptions.

And this would be you making assumptions about what she was thinking. I've read that most people do most of their reacting out of fear. And insecurity. Not self-indulgence or hate for others or self-importance. So logic would tell me that there's more to her story than just blatant disregard of his feelings and selfishness.

Um, ok, who's taking out issues? I never blamed him for anything. I just offered suggestions on what might work to get them back to an even playing field.

Actually I have no issues. But I have noticed a consistent tendency on this board for the female posters to blame the husband when the wife cheats. "he didn't communicate, meet her needs etc." and in some cases that is true. But nothing we have seen in this case demonstrates that.

However, when it's the husband that cheats, well oh boy. He's a jerk, he's evil, etc. etc. Well I don't buy it. If you have a problem with your marriage, communication, individual therapy, talking, marriage counseling, there are a lot of acceptable ways to deal with it. Cheating isn't one of them.

You're right, I don't know his wife's state of mind, I'm only guessing based on what he describes as her flippant reaction to his pain and questions. Not once has he described her expressing what HE considers to be adequate remorse. And ultimately, what matters is HIS peace of mind. She cheated on him, and lied about it. I keep saying it because it's the truth. Everything else is just speculation at this point. And if wasn't a big deal like you seem to be implying, then why is he struggling with it so much?

I think what really bothers him is that if she had told him back when it happened, he might have no married her. There's no way to know for sure, but if you felt that you were tricked into marriage under false pretenses, wouldn't you be upset? Oh wait, probably not, you would just blame yourself for not communicating properly with your fiance, right?

I guess here's my biggest issue, and I'm too stupid to realize it even after living with her for 11 years.

She DOES feel bad about it, but doesn't know how to express it. So because of that, I don't feel like she felt bad about it. She has never been an expressive person.

I feel horrible. She basically had to hit me over the head with a bat for me to figure it out. Today I got shortly after my last response saying she wants to talk about separating. She wouldn't return my calls. I immedately left work and drove an hour to her work, and finally got to talk to her on the phone. She sent me home and said she'd be home as soon as possible.

I'm such a screw up. She has been good to me all these years. It was a one time deal I am struggling with. Somebody shoot me. Now that she is threatening that she might leave, NOW i get it.

Ugh. Now I need to figure out how to fix this.... I'm sure I'll screw this up too.

This sounds very fishy....I suspect she has had another affair, probably during that period she seemed distant. Honestly I don't think she would leave you just because you were upset. You need to call the Harleys.

I don't think there's anything fishy.


This is HelpCoping's quote from DECEMBER. If this topic has continued to be "beaten to exhaustion" for another 4 MONTHS, I can easily understand why she's thinking separation.

Since that time, you've contacted OM from 14 years ago, requested a lie detector test, and probably questioned her and told her you either don't believe her answers or her answers don't make any sense.

We all look at this differently, but you weren't married. She hadn't taken vows or stood in front of God and family to swear her fidelity to you....yet. She has since, and from what you say -- she's been faithful.

You've told us you made great strides in fixing the "other problems" however, you have never shared what those were or talked about how you fixed them.

So please call the professionals. Please see if your wife will council with the Harleys. Because we don't have the whole picture and I'd really like to see you make it!

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that "once a cheater, always a cheater".

This website wouldn't exist - actually wouldn't even be needed if that were true.

Because once someone cheated, there would be absolutely no reason to even consider a reconciliation, let alone a rebuilding of a marriage.

My marriage is in recovery.

And I can say that it is not true that people always repeat cheating. Not true at all.

With that being said, my advice to you HC is that you slow down a bit.

This is definitely a NEW event for you. It is an OLD one for your wife. She has carried this guilt for a long time. People who do this reach a point where they either have to let it go, or tell it.

She told. I give her kudos for that, because it tells you that she trusts you to go forward with her, in spite of this.

And that she loves you enough to tell you something that hurts deeply, in spite of the fact that it might have cost her everything dear to her and to you. In spite of the fact that she probably believes in the depth of her heart that you will walk away.

She gave you the truth, and the choice to make the decisions regarding your life based on the truth.

I see that as being a loving effort on her part to start this marriage over again. Don't mistake it for anything else.


The question is this: what do you want? Focus on that.

Five years from now, ten years from now, do you want to be with her in a better marriage?

That is possible. Base your recovery efforts on the Harley's concepts, and you can get there. It is not an easy path to walk, and you have to plan on walking together. She will be holding you up sometimes, and you will be holding her up sometimes.

When she threatened to just leave, that is her desperation and fear talking.

If you want to save your marriage, whenever she says this, your answer should always be, "I don't talk divorce. I talk marriage building. I talk love."

And mean it.

Focus on what you want five and ten years from today.

What you have had over the years with her has not been erased by this. She has lied to you, yes. But she has also spent many nights and days trying to find ways to make it up to you - you just didn't know it. Now that you do, you can make better choices together, and really begin to work on making the marriage what it needs to be.

Strong, loving, and a place of truth and honesty.

I hope this gives you something to think about.

Schoolbus

Yes! Yes, Mrs. HelpCoping! You go, girl!

HC, you are almost there. You are missing one thing: it isn't that she doesn't know how to express it, it's that she doesn't express it exactly as you would and therefore you discount what she does express as lacking validity.

I am the betrayed spouse, my husband cheated after we had been married almost ten years. He actively deceived me regarding his whereabouts, phone calls, etc., while we were living together in the same home with our three children -- and it still never occurred to me that I had the right to e-mail his affair partner to check up on his version of events or schedule a lie detector test to catch him in some discrepancy.

I am truly sorry that your relationship has deteriorated to the point that your wife is ready to separate, but I hope that you see what brought it to this point. It wasn't the careless casual sex in which she engaged 12 years ago, it is the relentless hounding you have subjected her to since she told you about it.

Your posts have been rife with judgment: how could a good person do this? she's a cheater, don't I deserve to do whatever I feel is necessary to cope with her sin?

If you have expressed empathy to your wife, or tried at all to see things from her point of view, you have not disclosed that here. Forgiveness and healing have not seemed to be important to you. You seemed to want only that this woman, in her mid-thirties living in 2008, explain to your satisfaction every link in the chain of thoughts she had when she was 22. And make it rational! And make it something HelpCoping can understand and relate to, even though he is also now in his mid-thirties and never was a 22 year old girl.

HC, you didn't screw up, you felt safe enough with her to share your feelings with her - just like she felt safe enough to share her truth with you. You can get over this together, don't listen to divorce talk - it's just her fear of your judgment and YOUR leaving, she's pre-empting being dumped, by being the dumpER. It's just fear, because of the the past 4 months of wondering if you hate her now. Just reassure her that you love her, show her your vulnerability, work through this together! If it takes some sort of 'justice' for you to get over it, let her know that; let her know exactly what you need; I don't doubt she'll be glad to do whatever it takes to make up for it, once and for all.

Oh, and btw, reread schoolbus' post - it says what I tried to say but more eloquently, and makes a lot of sense.

Thank you guys for all your help. I think (hope) Mrs. HC and I did pretty well last night. I need to figure out in a hurry how to deal with the past issue in a healthy way. Maybe I need solo counseling for that.

When she got home, I don't think she felt like this could be worked out. She didn't think she could be happy in our relationship. Now she thinks its possible. I hope more than anything that she truly wants to keep this marriage together, and I promised to do whatever I could to make her want to stay.

Sigh.... it's going to be a lot of work from here on out but I'm ready for it and excited to move forward. Anyone know how to find a GOOD Marriage counselor? One of her friends recommended the pastor from her church, maybe that would be a reasonable place to start? I hate to just flip open the phone book....

I'm glad you're looking for a MC; they can be very effective in teaching you how to talk to each other without resorting to dysfunctional FOO safety nets. Look for one who does Imago (sp?) therapy.

How to find a good one? Go online. In just the past few months, I have found an amazing veterinarian and an even more amazing psychiatrist, just by Googling for them, and then reading websites that are set up for people to input their reviews. It's great!

And personally, stay away from church therapists. The ones I've seen have done more damage than good.

Well, I certainly wish we didn't have to look for one, but I believe our communication skills are the source of a lot of our problems. Hopefully someone can help us out...

The Harleys do marriage counseling by telephone. Many people on this site have used them and swear by them.

We're considering that, although we feel it might be better to do it locally.

I just left a counseling session with a Pastor who recommended my husband and I get a divorce. I have never heard of such a thing. Later it was determined that he didn't have the experience nor was he willing to put forth TIME to try and work with us through the issue.

I recommend someone more professional - the issue usually with that is the cost associate with it.

But I will keep you in my prayers as I deal with the results of my husband's one night stand.......his 10 month old son and my now instant family.

Blessings

It's amazing what people can overcome. It's sad that it took me this long to realize how insignificant of an event what happened to me really was. I will be taking a long hard look at myself and what's important to me.

I'm pretty worried about stumbling onto the "wrong" counselor that may give out the same advice you got.

I will pray for you as well. I am a Christian, but I can't say that I've been walking Gods path for a long time, so my prayer may not count for much yet! But there's only one way to improve that.

Thank you

HC, look at it this way. In the billions of people on this earth, perhaps 1/2 of 1% may go online or to a counselor to learn more about themselves and their marriages and try to improve things. Think how wonderful you are that you are here, improving things. And how lucky your wife is that you did.

Thanks CP, I appreciate the thought.

I want nothing more than to make this beautiful woman happy and I was stupid enough to jeapordize that. If only I had realized that sooner, things would be much easier to recover.

I am committed to making our marriage a wonderful place to be, I just hope I have the knowledge to do so, and the strength to keep myself out of my dark self-pity place. Ugh. I hate that place. I know in my heart that what happened so long ago when we were so young does NOT matter..... and I love her.

Thank you for this post, you are right about every point...