Cipher, I know your current situation is stressful, but I am thoroughly enjoying this thread. Especially the bit about OM2 living with parents and not being able to afford a cell phone. It's too bad you are in the thick of it all and probably can't see the humour, but at least you are recording it here. You could make a movie out of this!

Though it doesn't sound like OM2 will have what it takes to stick around, it is certainly not unlikely xWW will have OM3 (or 4 or more) in the wings ready to replace him. How much longer does she have to stay with you?

Cipher,

I've been doing the single dad thing for 2 years now.

I can relate soooo much to what you wrote in your last post and my inability to understand how this move for "independence" and "time apart to heal" and "stand on my own two feet" meant jumping right into a live in bf and future marriage.

I guess some folks feel empty unless there is someone laying next to them at night or constanly giving them attention.

I'm happy to keep my life uncomplicated as far as a woman goes, but do admit it would be nice to have a R with a nice woman. I date, but nothing has gotten serious with anyone and I dumped the last woman that showed signs of not being compatible with my lifestyle and kids.

I'm surprised she hasn't tried to latch on to you in some way. How receptive would you be to that?

I can imagine you have long since moved on and gotten past the pain and sort of view her as "used goods" now who you pity more than anything.

Yes?

Tabby,

Glad you're enjoying the thread, but I thought it hit it's comedic peak at battery operated boyfriend.

Pom,

I'm going to try to answer some of your question along with Tabby's.

The original talk with the ex centered around 6 months which would have been in mid August, and the whole first month she was here it didn't seem like she was going to stick to staying that long. Lots of talk about getting far away from OM1, hating this town, and not being able to wait to be with OM2.

Then at the at the end of the first month I couldn't stand any more of her selfish behaviour and we had the aforementioned dressing down, which included among other things Cipher's 101 reasons why OM2 is a loser speech. Which included among other things:

1. He entered into a relationship with you knowing you are married and have children, indicating a lack of respect for the sanctity of marriage and the well being of family and children. Which speaks to his being of low character and morals. (He's a Scumbag)

2. Knowing the above and know that things are on the rocks and some of the reasons why, he still enters into a relationship know you to be depressed and vulnerable, indicating predatory behaviour and again speaking to a lack of character. (He's a Scumbag)

3. He's over 30, no education past high school, no career, works in a gas station/grocery for a little over minimum wage, has legal judgments against him for bad debts. (He's a loser)

4. He lives with his parents, and spends all waking hours outside of work playing an online video game. (He's a loser)

5. They met and spend all they're time together in a said online video game where everyone is pretty and heroic. (It's a fantasy)

6. They've never met in person most of her perception of him... is all in her head! (It's just a fantasy)

7. He's ugly. (He's Ugly)

I hadn't even seen his picture yet at this point, but I threw that in anyway... turned out to be true.

The list has grown since then, as you may have seen.

This was all contradictory to my original plan to butter her up to sign the custody papers. It was done in a very "straighten up or get the hell out" kind of way. I half expected to come home the next day from work to her packing, but instead found her playing with the girls and her computer off! She has been, with a few lapses a much better person to be around...

...but she wants to stay until February now. I hem and haw and change the subject when she brings it up.

She says she doesn't want to be in the position she was in OM1 ever again. Not wanting to stay and not being able to leave, being unable to get an apartment due to her bad credit. She still wants to move to and be with OM2 leaving my daughters with me, but she wants to be wholly independent from him (like he could even support himself, I think she's setting herself up to be leached upon). So, she needs more time to save money and "do things right"...

I wonder if I didn't put some doubt in her mind with my ranting. I doubt it because she is in fog land right now and we all know how well logic and sense penetrate the fog... but maybe.

Right now I just want her to sign the papers and get out. She can stay until August because I promised her that much, but if the papers are signed by then? She's just not someone I want in my life or in the lives of my children on a regular basis. If she saw the light at some point, I think having a mother they can look up to would be a great and wonderful thing for my daughters and something not every other girl on the block has these days and having a competent co-parent is always a plus.

Is there a magic number? How much $$ does she require for her move to fantasy island?

Personally, rather than take a chance that Mr. WOW will blow it, I think I'd finance her move and get her packing!

I already offered. She turned me down.

She doesn't have a magic number, but she does apparently have a magic list;

-A new vehicle. (With her credit situation, she'll almost have to buy something outright, which means her trade-in and sever thousand in cash.)

-Apartment located and 3 months rent saved.

-Job located with equivalent pay and management status.

-Money saved for the rentals involved in the move, which she priced with the mileage involved at just over $1k

Like I said, I have offered and been turned down to bank roll this thing. I've suggested to her that if she so sure about this and wants it so badly, why NOT move in with the guy... I'm sure his parents have a lovely home

New conundrum.

I had dinner tonight with a my best female friend. A girl that I've known since high school, maybe a year or two longer than xWW. Always been an intelligent and interesting conversationalist and my best sounding board when I've wanted to discuss the inner working of the feminine mind. She knows about everything that's happened between myself and xWW. I know more than I wanna know about her love life.

So, we're having dinner and some very large margaritas and the conversation it mostly about her recent man troubles, when this slips out;

"We should just be fornication pals then I don't have to worry about these things"

... fornication pals were not the exact words she used, but you get the picture... in my head I'm thinking, these things never actually work, out-loud I quickly and smoothly, I think (LARGE margaritas), change the subject like I didn't hear.

I know this girl well enough to know that, 1. she wasn't joking, 2. she would be willing to try something like that out.

I don't know if she's done something like that before, but I have, with a girl I knew less well and was far less fond of... we are not still pals...

I'm going to go on like I didn't hear it, but I'm curious for others thoughts and opinions.

For me at least, when I had a woman friend, and then sex was introduced into the equation...it changes the dynamic of the relationship. You're not "just friends" any more. To me, it was very very hard to go back - so hard that there is only one former FWB that I still consider a friend.

As they say, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. I'd say to pass on the 'benefits' part and keep the friendship. Now if she's relationship material you might proceed differently - as long as everyone is clear that it's not just FWB.

That's about as much clarity as I can muster up right now

Maybe that was a way to test the waters to see if you're interested in more.

You could say something like, "I wouldn't want to risk the friendship we have on something like that. You're too dear to me and it would just be a FWB. I think something like that might lead to more between us since feelings almost alwasy come into play between FWBs."

It's a minefield.

I'd dismiss it as Margaritas talking and see if she ever brings it up sober.

Fairly uneventful weekend. Which is the way I like them these days.

My friend, let's just call her "Susan" so I have something to call her when she comes up again, decided to make one of her man troubles, her official man trouble over this weekend. So, I either failed to pull the trigger on something or I've dodged a bullet, I'm not sure which.

I told xWW some of what was going on there and all her comments had a certain tone to them... she was either condescending or jealous, again, I'm not sure which.

I replaced the DVD player the baby put peanut butter in a couple of months ago, so the kids spent all weekend watching DVDs like they'd never seen one before. They're all healthy and happy. I still have the sinus infection they brought home from school though.



I've seen a lot of talking about the lack of success stories and an overabundance of recovery failures on the site lately. I say its too hard to tell. If you watch the "Newest Members" widget we're getting way more registered users than we have actual posters. Half of those who get up the courage to post their story the first time never come back to update or update only a handful of times. Those that do stick around and receive and follow advice often times fall off when they hit certain milestones, such a spouse moving home, or filing for D, that do not denote success or failure but a merely steps along the road. So, I don't think there's a enough data to rule either way whether failures are up or successes are down, at least by the criterion these discussions are going by.

Personally, I think the boards are a success as long as they continue to inform and educate people about MB principles and anyone benefits, whether that be simply in the their personal recovery or simply being better armed to deal with future relationships, and not just whether they are able to recovery an M from whatever situation originally brought them here.

It just occurred to me today that Susan's boyfriend and xWW's OM2 share the same name, Tim.

Coincidence or Conspiracy?!?!

OM2 told xWW this morning that he was fired from his job as grocery manager at a gas station... excuse me a moment...

<BWAAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!....::>

K, as I see it, this could go one of two ways;

1. He finds a good job that uses and challenges his considerable talents, that has opportunities for advancement, and puts him on a road to being someone I don't snicker about every time xWW mentions him...

2. He spends the next 3 to 6 months loafing. Completely unworried about finding gainful employment so long as he has enough money to pay for WoW (perhaps convincing xWW to foot that bill). Eventually after much badgering from father and father's girlfriend takes a job at the drive-thru at taco hell for minimum wage and the opportunity to wear a snazzy uniform with name plaque, thus cementing his place as someone as view above OM1 but below pond scum.

Votes? You can add to the ballot if you see other roads I may have missed and vote for those instead

From the sound of this guy, even #2 might be a bit ambitious. The really sad thing is that it could affect how long before xWW leaves your house. Maybe you should start shopping for OM3 on her behalf? Are there any good prisons nearby? Maybe some pimply-faced high school dropout somewhere (at least she could say she's got somebody younger interested).

Ugh. Can't sleep. Long day at work, had a drink with a pal on the way home and released most of that tension, then xWW manages to set me on edge as soon as I get home. Grrr.

On an unrelated note, the guy did find a third way... wait for it... he's gonna sue for wrongful termination!... for an $8 an hour job... guess he's lookin for easy money to live out his slacker dream.

On another even more related note, this place used to be such a supportive place with a generally unified and positive message from it's volunteers and peer support group... ::

Now we have lots of bickering and infighting and mostly between "veterans" many look to for wise words and cooler heads. Sad.

Mommy!, Daddy!, don't fight!!!

This thread is pretty entertaining ... your xWW has got to be among the more ridiculous that I've read about, and her worthless OM, that she is SOOOO in love with, it's priceless.

But I kind of think you need to have more of a plan. I am not a fortune teller, but I can see your future pretty clearly -- she's going to be living with you loooooooong after the August deadline. How long are you going to put up with that?

I am very perplexed this morning.

xWW told me she wants to see her doctor about depression. Her emotions have been all over the place and I really think anti-depressants would do her a world of good. (Not to mention the fact they would make my life easier assuming they make her easier to live with )

What perplexes me is that I suggested this almost 2 months ago, and she flew off the handle! We were in her Dr.'s office about a back problem she was having and when I brought it up she suggested very loudly that I was a rectal orifice and I should mind my own business.

I wonder what's changed... prolly never find out... womens


Thank you for enjoying my pain :p and to answer your question, just as long as it takes to get her to sign kids over.

Then I have ways of making her leave... MWAHAHAHAHA!

I miss tongue smiley, rolley eyes smiley, and evil smiley... Mods?

Your thread is a sitcom being lived out in real life.

As far as her reaction goes:

Quit trying to solve her problems or make suggestions. They need to figure it out on their own and you'll live much more peacefully if you let her drift and find her own way.

You aren't responsible for her health and well being anymore.

So what if she NOW gets it that she needs therapy and ADs?

She won't get her head for years. It's not your job to do it for her and she simply won't get it.

did she press charges against the man who bashed her head in?

I would demand she do so...

you need lots of paper trails with this one..

what happens if she tries to bolt with the children back to him...

eecccchhhh

ark

He's out on bail but yes, he is charged with domestic abuse or something like. He'll be back in court June or July xWW tells me.

Her going back to him is highly unlikely, I think.

For one thing, he hit her. If he hadn't I think there would be a slim chance he could talk her back home. He managed once the first time she resolved to leave. He's very persuasive in his sleazy way. I've always thought he should be selling cars somewhere.

For another, there's OM2. They're in love. They're soul mates. It's inconceivable how they ever lived this long without one another. etc. etc.



Oh, I know it's not my job anymore. Again, in the big blow up from the first month she was here that I have mentioned before, there was this tidbit:

Cipher: You realize for the rest of our days, after all I've done for you, and everything you've done to me, that I owe you nothing.

xWW: Yes

Cipher: Nothing at all, from now until we die?

xWW: Yes

Yeah, I was in top form that night. Could have made a stone weep with shame. My LB-Fu was strong.

...might have been a little pent up...

Anyway, I'm not just gonna stand by and watch her disintegrate under my roof. If she was still living with OM1 or when she moves in with OM2, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Call me old-fashioned or even misguided but the way I see it, anyone I've taken under my roof is somewhat my responsibility for as long as they are there. Whether it was a mistake to take them in or to let them stay as long as they have is a separate issue.

Unfortunately for me, I've made my bed, and now I'll have to sleep in it.

You've never changed your mind?
Never decided you hate the color choice and painted over it?
Never sold a stock because it became a consistent loser?
Never sent back cold/bad food at a restaurant?

May I suggest you change the sheets on your bed before you sleep in it

Pep

It's not such a noble motive keeping her with you.



She's conveniently close and LB'ing her is very tempting.

Re-examine your motives.

I'm just saying ..... you may be too close to her flame to notice the heat of your own fire.

Pep