How are you doing today Luna?

It was late last night when I wrote. My intense week was from work, not personal life. I am a school secretary and it was the week before vacation, our 5th graders were at camp, we are short one person for almost a month, and my boss is in a bad mood. Plus parents.. On the way home from camp, one person had a severe allergic reaction to rock candy, evidently it has trace peanut on it. She was given an epi pen, but there wasn't enough time to get her to school and back down to the hospital so we needed to pull the bus over on the side of the road, get 911 to her and transport to nearest hospital. Parents were mad because the bus was late and they wanted to start their vacation. I wish people understood how hard we work to take care of their kids. I love my job, but some times, the stresses, fast pace, constant interuptions and non understanding just take their toll and wipe me out emotionally.

But more importantly, how are you doing today?

Hi Pud,


It would make sense that plan B is for life.... I identified with the values of S...I don't with those of a WS.... I will consider listening to the tapes. Thanks for the info.


Pud, I may have to consider this route as well... but I am not quite sure how to prepare myself to being in the same room as WS after almost 3 years!

Luna,

Do you still love him? Do you want your M or are you ready to end it?

Hey Luna,

Well shame on me, I really didn't know enough to post to you! Sounds like you've put more thought into this than it seemed after reading this thread.

The mediation that we were urged to try was because I won't talk to H...the commissioner was adamant that I "have to talk to each other!" and I disagreed. Interestingly enough, H did not contest the current visitation schedule OR primary placement, so it was just another whine of his. He swears we have a court order that says I HAVE to talk to him. HA!

When I said you were in the "wrong" frame of mind I said it because it seemed like you were considering D in order to spark a reaction. But, I was wrong. So, disregard!

Can you tell me how you changed the title of your thread though? For the life of me I cannot figure out how to do it now!

Hi Queenie,


I still love my H, would like to recover M and would like my family back ....but WS has taken over... and it's been 3 years...
and I don't want anything to do with WS!

WS has chosen to be with OP...at the expense of M and loss of family....

...and yes...I am losing hope that I will ever see H back...

...and unless A ends soon.... I will pick myself up and will have to find a way to accept the reality...and move on...

...hard to do...accepting something you don't want...but can't control because it involves the will of ....two people!

Hi Queenie,

Thanks for clarifying...

...interpretations...interpretations... it's what gets us all into a lot of trouble...LOL!

...although I haven't gotten to that point... the name of your thread makes it clear.... if you are in plan B.... I guess an 'intense week' would be related to...your work!


Much much better.

The 'temptation' of breaking my plan B (which hasn't really happened very often) rose out of some frustration with the legal process and possible lack of funds....etc etc

... but it can also be the 'pull' from what I refer to the BS fog... when faced with challenges... a BS can also sometimes fantasizes about... finding the quick 'fixes'.... as Julie so well describes...LOL!

Right now...I am considering a 'structured' free mediation meeting with WS... and this should help my worries over funds... which I had not envisioned doing before... if so, I would have to get out of my 'comfort zone' and get ready for it....

When I was a newbie BS, Queenie, I was a real basketcase... decision to go to plan B was literally made out of need of 'survival'.... I felt I was on the edge of being broken emotionally and psychologically... and was not fit enought to focus on an LSA...

After 3 years...I am OK with going the plan D route (and don't think a BS is really every READY for it!).... if I want to eventually pursue another R.... I am not there yet.. but to give myself the permission to... I would need to have plan D in place....

Hi Julie,


Uhmmm...wishful thinking on part of WS.



No probs...


You go to the first post of the thread, choose to 'edit', than change the name... I don't know about this new Board, with the last Board, after a certain length of time...it could not be changed.

Hi Everybody,

WS and I are on the D route... before continuing on that route....

Since I have been in plan B for so long, and have no idea where WS is at, I seem to have the need to, and maybe for the last time, to communicate to WS that even after so long, the door is STILL open....(even though it IS slowing shutting)... in case he might be willing to reconsider, if offered.

It's been a few days.

This need doesn't seem to be going away.

I don't want PRIDE or the FEAR of being hurt or rejected again to keep me from asking the question...and regret not having done so later....

I would appreciate your comments about the pros and cons of doing this...although it's been awhile since I consulted with Steve... I do know at times he doesn't see anything wrong with checking in with WS.... to see where he is at.... in case WS is convincing himself 'now,it's too late'.... because it's not, that is, if he is willing to do some hard work (like...NC with OW!)

Edited: Dear WS:

I consulted someone who does family counselling to help myself and the boys.

Just thought I would check...

Would you be interested in meeting with him...and open to the possibility of meeting him together?

Luna

Hi Luna,

{{{{{{{{Luna}}}}}}}}}

I feel the feelings in your heart. I unfortunately I can totally understand and feel your pain and sadness. I don't have any advice as I am so new to Plan B and this whole mess.

But what I know is that you are an amazing person who is loved by many on here and those who have experience will help you through it.

I don't have answers, but I do have caring, love and prayers for you..

Queenie

Hi Queenie,

Thanks for dropping by.

I am trying to figure out what is my intent for wanting to make the offer, and the consequences.

I would like to think that I would be doing it for myself.... to minimize future 'what ifs'...and be able to tell myself that 'I tried'... regardless of WS's answer.

It's a resource I found that seems to know well the 'dynamics' of affairs... N/C with affair partner being a MUST for recovery... so...it's as close as you get to Harley principles...

Were WS choose to meet with resource... it would be someone else, other than myself, listing the necessity of N/C with OW IF he wants to recover M and family....

He heard the same thing from me over two years ago but he wasn't listening.... is he ready to 'hear' it NOW?

It would help me immensely to know that WS had the option....hopefully with a clearer mind due to some reality checks he has had during the past 2 years.... but is just refusing to WANT to make the effort.... which is HIS choice... and would further serve as a reality check...FOR ME!

OTOH... is this my reaction to being en route to plan D? ... the loss of hope of M recovery? ...fear of the 'finality' of it all?

Personally...I'd like to think that, if I am prepared to temporarily swallow my pride... expose myself to another rejection.... some pain.... muster up some courage to ask... so that I can have some peace for having asked! ....because sometimes what's OBVIOUS is not so obvious!

I wouldn't be making a compromise on my boundaries ...because the therapist believes in NC with OW for recovery... even if EVER we were to meet together for the purpose of exploring what it would take with therapist...that boundary would not go away.

My question NOW is: what do I have to lose by asking?

Personally I don't think you have anything to lose.

If I am too lose my M I want to know that I did everything imaginable to save it and went down fighting. But REMEMBER I am NO EXPERT and my H doesn't want to have anything to do with me.

I remember that I did things in Plan A that were probably a little off the mark, like when I showed up at WH's game and crack ho was there. I had so much fun being the wife and showing her I was the wife.

Many people in the world think I was stupid and should never have done it. But you know what, I know that I fought for my M, put away my pride and let G-d take care of me and the outcome.

Luna, are you a spiritual person? What is G-d telling you to do or leading you to do?

Hi Queenie,


...I am spiritual in the 'larger' sense.... we give it our best shot... and then... learn to let it go....

I am letting WS go... I only want him to come back BY CHOICE...
and at this point...it would mean a lot of EFFORT seeing that NC with OW would be a hard pill to swallow, without any guarantee of recovery....big RISK!

...one of the issues for WS was that he seemed to have 'forgotten' that he chose to marry me and have a family.... and started to feel he was staying BY OBLIGATION! ...not good!

The 'passion' in affairs...where everything you do seems effortless....is I believe what attracts a WS in the first place to A.... it's the short-term fix.... for long-term trouble!

Anyways...

In my case WS would like the friendly co-parenting R...where we can talk to our heart's content about the boys... and he gets to go home to OW.... your typical cake-eating scenario!

The only negative point I see about asking is that it will confirm to him that the door is in fact STILL open.... give him a temporary Luna FIX! as opposed to staying DARK.... and let WS continue wondering....

...I also believe that certain situations require a 'hero'.... who is prepared to dare to take a RISK... and take the fall!

...it is not my intention to be do friendly co-parenting... so plan B has set the standard of communication between myself and WS...as little as possible...whatever the consequences.... to us and our boys... and that we will be just fine, with or without S!

I would have to say that this is your culprit.

He is a WS, plain and simple. If he read your letter two years ago, do you really think he's forgotten, especially if he really did want to come back?

I suppose you could write another Plan B letter and send it, with wording regarding how you would like to handle communication for the D proceedings and life thereafter. I dunno. It's just what *I* would do, if I were in your position. As it stands, I WAS given the chance to do everything possible to save it, so I know there is nothing left for me to do.

I can understand the need to 'lunge at the gerbil' (from The Language of Letting Go, by Melody Beattie). It's something we all have the urge to do, but you can't change this gerbil, you can only deal with what he's giving you to work with. In this case, it's nothing that is good for YOU.

((((Luna))))

Hi SL,

Thanks for posting.


I would really like to be able to say the same thing, SL... if nothing else...

... and don't want WS be hiding behind the excuse that 'it's too late, NOW, surely the offer made 2 years is no longer valid' ...NOT!

...well the offer is still on the table, if WS would be willing to make the effort...

...just a way to through the ball back in his court....

...I know WS wants to REALLY REALLY talk to me.... I just want to him to know that it's not impossible, and make sure I don't lower my standard....and, is HE now ready to pay the entry ticket?.... it's still the same.... NC with OW....

As you say.... if he really wanted to....he should be able to figure it out.... but WS has a fatalistic/victim attitude.... it's LIFE! and avoids taking responsibility for his choices.... and in fogland some FWS have said that clear thinking can be difficult...it would help if WS would at least take responsibility.... that it's also HIS CHOICE not to want to do anything about it!

...WS/S as I knew him was too proud to admit when he was wrong, thought it showed weakness, and may need a way to 'save face'... he may just be curious enough.... and wanting to meet with me enough...to go for it!...or NOT!

...and if nothing else....meeting with the therapist could be cheaper to work out a D settlement issues then working it at the hourly rate of two lawyers going back and forth...I was really disappointed over that last week!

...and yes...with the approaching finality of D... I am pretty sure the offer will come OFF the table.... and yes, Luna expects to be looking for someone who will appreciate me in his life... and put into practice all that I have learned, the hard way, about what it takes to have a healthy R!

I believe you HAVE done everything YOU can do to this point. We are just at different points. To be honest, I would have felt better had I never had another false recovery. The devastation isn't minimized with each additional one. It's just as hard each time. I was just more prepared to DEAL with the feelings than I was last time.

You see, I just continued to do more and learn more during this last year, which I could have done in Plan B, and thru and after D, without having to deal with the continual disappointment and rejection and alienation.

Being in Plan B for as long as you have, you may be more buffered to how truly horrible a WS can be. Time does heal quite a bit, but it doesn't make a WS any less wayward and cruel.

IMO, remaining dark is your best bet to not add to the devastation you've already gotten thru. Your urge to DO something is just that. The D has brought this need on. This has nothing to do with your WS. HE hasn't done anything different, as far as I can tell. HE still wants to sit up on that fence enjoying his cake. He hasn't changed, just your situation has.

Hi SL,

Geesh...that was a quick reply!


Thanks for being so honest, SL. You are certainly making your point on the 'protection' issue.


I agree. I have done just FINE, thank you, being in Plan B.


Well...the new element is the D process... and I have some funding issues.... and meeting with WS in a 'structured' setting may be OK.

Believe me.... I know the damage a WS can do. My WS made my going into plan B very very EASY! ...my survival and mental health depended on it!

I had never experienced such...CRUELTY before! YEAP...

Thanks for reminding me... I needed to be.... plan B is heaven-sent when it comes to dealing with a WS!

As for the D process, mediation could be in your best interest. This doesn't last forever, and could serve to make the transition to D, financially easier.

There may be some moments that cause you pain, but who wouldn't be hurt during this mess. I'm sure some old stuff has come to the surface with the D process looming.

For me, my hope has been extinguished, and now I'm left to heal. That's okay, because I know what must be done; I don't feel like I'm twisting in the wind anymore.

Hi SL,


This may be closer to what my intentions are...in considering meeting WS with a third party in charge.


That's what I say...'damage control' is the best we can hope when it involves a WS... but realistically, some 'damage' should be expected... when a M and family has been destroyed.


As they say...you have 'paid your dues' and 'earned' your stars!
You have your whole future ahead of you, and we are all rooting for you and know that you WILL be OK.

This is where I am at today.

Basically, for financial reasons, I can't afford the back-and-forth of lawyers (and neither can WS), and have come to the conclusion that to settle issue of custody of DS12 and assets, I WILL have to be 'open' to consider the free court mediation sessions offered when children are involved, which I have declined in the PAST, unless WS would NOW no longer be interested in participating.

I avoided these sessions because I considered the process of 'facing' WS too painful. After over two years, will I be able to participate and 'manage' the emotional turmoil of seeing H face to face yet knowing it's not him but WS?

I would have to be prepared for a 'rollercoaster' ride of some sort....anytime anything involves WS!

I would need to work hard NOT to fall into the BS fogland where these meetings get my hopes up too high...I went into plan B because it was too painful to 'hear' WSs justifications and selfish POV.

... and I don't want to convey to WS or enable him in his fogland illusion that by participating in these mediation sessions, I would be opening myself up to friendly co-parenting...NOT!

Will Luna be able to keep it together during these mediation sessions, focus on the issues at hand re divorce settlement... NOT go to any R talk and get her hopes up (and be disappointed)?.... because the one condition on that issue is clear to ME..... NC with OW!

Anyways... I would appreciate your thoughts on this, I would particularly like to hear from those BSs who found themselves wearing 'these shoes', that is, feeling 'protected' by the peacefulness of plan B, and needing to consider going through mediation sessions with WS to settle D issues.

I will have to be the one to approach WS with this proposal....because to date I was the one to refuse this process.

...and I am already scared at the prospect of having to face WS....even in a structured setting...in my eyes, WS is just ONE BIG TRIGGER!

....it would definitely be a case of FEAR the FEAR and do it ANYWAYS!

...I have drafted a note....am now sitting on it...and will sit on it for a few days... and see if I can start by getting my anxiety level...DOWN!

Luna

...doing a lot of DEEP breathing!

Luna:

I feel for you but I can't relate to your situation...

I hope someone else comes along to give you some support and advice..

((((LUNA))))