Been away - travelling. Caught up on your situation. I think the latest set of boundaries is great. You are at the place where you deserve nothing but respect now.

BTW - this stich confirms that the truth never hurts the children and in fact I am suprised (shouldnt be)that your younger son was in conflict over the ordeal.

In my own situation - my son's actually broke up the A by meeting the OM and later confronting the W. Amazing what son's will do to protect 'their' family. I am proud of them as you should be of your sons.

Nice to see you give the fence a swift kick. Your WW has long been basking in her own reflected glory while sitting on the fence.

Let us know what happens.

Yep, there's a certain power when you're done and don't care if the marriage works or not.

I'm sure you read it, but DS15 ripped her a new one. He told her he would never talk to her if she was with OM. He said if he was REQUIRED to visit her he would, but he wouldn't say a word to her and if he wasn't required to, he wouldn't visit. He said a whole lot more stuff to her that I won't repeat here, but let's just say, when both my boys were done with her, I think she saw the light.

Now she's still foggy as all get out. My boundaries I gave her today will determine just how sincere she is in trying to make this work. And if she doesn't agree to them I will tell the kids what I asked for and their mother won't agree to them and that's why I'm filing for divorce and if she does agree to them and breaks NC without telling me or lying to me about it then the kids will know why I'm divorcing her.

Thanks for checking in RW.

Haven't posted in a few days. I wavered a little on the boundaries, but we'll see how it goes.

WW at this point doesn't see the need for the NC letter. She says she's already told OM she can't see/talk to him again and doesn't think it's necessary. I decided to give her the benefit of the doubt on that one, for now. I guess the way I look at it, if she was still talking with OM why wouldn't she have just agreed to the NC letter to get me off her back and then sent him an email from work and said, don't pay any attention to that letter, I only did it to make BS think I'm agreeiing to his conditions. Make sense?

She's says she's going to get rid of the affair stuff, but I'll be checking ensure she does.

She's agreed, in principle to reading some affair recovery books. Still insists she's not going to go MC route, but with it only being one week since I exposed to the kids there's not going to be much she'll agree to that I ask for, right now. But I will be pursuing that more after she defogs some, if she does. If she doesn't start defogging soon, I'll have a pretty good idea NC is not in place and I've told her that if I discover any contact of any kind I'm immediately filing for divorce. DS16 told her if she talks to OM again that he'd live with me after the divorce and never talk to her again.

Friday night, OMW asked me if I'd be willing to testify at her divorce trial. I told her I'd rather not, but if she supoena's me, I'd have no choice. I asked her if she planned on calling WW to testify and I haven't received a response from her yet on that one. How funny would that be for WW to have to sit in court and look OMW and her kids in the eyes and tell all about the affair? Talk about conqsequences.

Since I last posted, WW's moods have been swinging greatly. Up one minute, down the next. Up for a few hours, down for a few hours. NC indications? Don't really know at this point.

I know for some of you it may sound like I wimped out on the conditions, but I really am not giving up on them, but just giving her a little time to get over the exposure anger before pushing for them again.

I guess I'm just in an ok place because I'm really done with her. One slip up and she doesn't tell me about it and I'm outie. And that lets me have a little patience and see if she's honest about what she says. I know CHEATERS LIE and will be snooping, watching her like a hawk. Incidently she did pass the first test. Sat I went to my mom's for her 77th birthday party and spent the night. DS16 went to a concert and spent the night at a friends house. It would have been the perfect opportunity for them to get together, but she didn't put any miles on her car more than the exact mileage to drop DS16 off Sat and pick him up Sun. Only 7,248 more instances of her doing what she says before I begin to trust her again.

HFU,

All I can offer at this time is hang in there. The ball is in her court. I hope she does defog and begin to see both the hope for the future and what she has done.

God Bless,

JL

I've been wondering how it was going.

Just realize that your boundaries, they're just the bare minimum of what recovery will require to truly commence. Every concession you make is going to be ground you are going to have to reclaim at greater effort later on.

Thanks JL, TYK.

I'm with ya both. There's a whole lot more I'll need to stay in this marriage, but I've seen a few things that give me hope.

WW sent me a note last Fri that said she "was apologetic and perhaps a little broken" among some other things. The note sounded partly repentant, but also FOGGY (justified in the A). Fri night we had a discussion that she shared more than she has in a long time. And there've been a couple things since that looked like baby steps to me, i.e. when she went shopping Sat morning she got something for me to give my mom for her birthday. Now it might not seem like much, but it's a start.

Her mood has also been swinging a lot since about Thurs. Just today she forwarded me an email that was intended for me but sent to her by mistake. In the past, even in the middle of the affair she would at least say "I think this was intended for you". This time, nothing. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I want her angry right now as that possibly means NC is in place.

That being said, If in fact she told OM about NC last Monday, which DS16 told me she said she did based on his ripping on her for the A, it's probably too much to expect her to jump up and down at anything I suggest with my exposure to the kids only a week old.

I'm going there again, but am willing to give her some time to get through WD, assuming NC is in place. If not, I'm done anyway, so what's it going to hurt to give her some time?

Thanks for checking in with me.

Well, honestly, this is about YOU now. What YOU want, what YOU will accept, what YOU are OK with and can handle. If you are OK (for now) letting her complete WD without too many more demands from you while you snoop and maintain boundaries about NC, etc...then GREAT. As long as YOU are OK with it.

But, I will tell you...you are at a critical point, Hope. One wrong move by her, and you are done. You have lost your "give-a-[censored]" in a way and so it won't take much to push you over the edge. Use this to your advantage...because there will still be times when the pain is great and you cannot imagine life without her. Do the most you can while you are in a STRONG place. Show her how serious you are...I think she is starting to be scared of losing you.

But, coming from one who is still in recovery and who is completely repentant and horribly devastated by my choices, plus on board with MB principles, I can honestly tell you that MUCH MORE IS NEEDED by your WW before you will able to even begin recovery. DON'T SETTLE FOR LESS, Hope. My pain is NOTHING compared to W2S's and he still struggles daily, no matter how sorry I am! So, do what you can now to ensure the possibility of recovery, KWIM.

I warn you of false recovery. Make sure you keep snooping and protect yourself from any further pain from your WW. You have endured enough. I keep coming back to Mimi saying that after all the crap she went through with her WH (he was gonna do this and that)...when she finally stood up, he agreed to ALL of her demands in a heartbeat. Your WW has to KNOW what she will be losing. She must suffer some consequences of her actions...beyond your pain and the pain she has inflicted upon her boys. DO NOT SHEILD HER FROM THESE CONSEQUENCES...DO NOT PROTECT HER. Let her fall..HARD...and then she will WANT you. She will not just be settling for you because she couldn't have her cake and eat it, too. You will need this to recover...TRUST ME!!!!!!

((((H4U))))

Take care of yourself!!

Thanks LaLa. And you're right. I am at the point where I don't care whether this works or not. I don't know if I've posted this thought before or not, but I've seen the other side, and right now it looks pretty darn good.

It's almost like I'm done fighting. If she wants to play along great, but if not, I'm done wasting my time and effort on her. I guess there just gets to be a point where you don't give a rats a**. And that's where I'm at. Will I continue to snoop? yes. Will I still give her a chance if she comes around? Yes. But her attitude that she's done nothing wrong and will not do anything to help ME heal is very telling in my book. Will that change if she is truly in NC? Maybe, maybe not. But the depth of betrayal is something I just don't know if I can get over.

Could we have a good marriage in the future? Maybe. Will I ever be able to forgive what she's stolen from me? I doubt it. Will I be able to forgive enough to make a good life with her? Probably, but it's just a shame that we'll never know just how great our marriage could have been if she hadn't had the affair. And that's what makes me sad.

Last night, WW was pretty down. She was going to get the mail when I pulled in the driveway. I said "hi" to her and she ignored me. There was a piece on the news about the latest Obama/Clinton spat and one of the people they interviewed said he thought Clinton was blowing it out of perportion. WW said "I agree". I asked her what it was all about because I hadn't heard and she ignored me. When I went to bed I told her "goodnight" and she ignored me. So does this mean NC is still in place or she's still talking to OM while at work (email/IM) and she's pissed at me because of the situation? Don't know, and don't really care. I'm tired of the disrespect and everytime she is like this I find myself disliking her even more.

Been a couple days since I posted. And I have to say, I'm hopeful. WW has been very cold and distant with me since Sunday or so. Starting Monday she wouldn't respond to me in any way. Tues and Wed nights she wouldn't even look at me when I talked to her so I've decided if she wants some space, then space it is. Last night after she didn't even look at me when I said "hi" to her, I decided I'm not going to say a word to her unless she speaks first. Maybe this is the wrong way to handle it, and I'd appreciate some comments, but how many times can you talk to someone and get nothing back, not even an acknowledgement that you've spoken, before you give up trying?

I guess I'm hopeful that NC is still in place. 1.5 weeks since she told me she officially ended it with OM. First few days she was ok with me, but then it's been slowly more WD like with her.

Sad part is, the more she acts this way, the less I want it to work.

I know everyone has told me that WD is he!!, and it this is finally it, I agree. WW is going to pick DS19 up from school this afternoon. It's a 2.5 hour drive home, just the two of them and it'll be the first time she's seen him in person since I exposed to the kids. I would imagine that will be an interesting car ride. Maybe them being together like that will give her the final push to keep NC in place. Who knows?

We'll see what happens.

Withdrawal is hard on the both of you. It appears that when a WS is having to go through withdrawal the acompanying pain of withdrawal is the BS's fault. They become angry at the BS because the BS is viewed as the cause of the pain. Forcing the WS to go through withdrawal.

Thanks Road. I appreciate the comment.

Just when you think a wayward can't get any more pathetic, they surprise you.

Yesterday WW went to pick DS19 up from school so he could go visit his GF this weekend. On their way home, WW text messaged DS16 and told him to ask me how much money she should get for DS19 for the weekend. Why the F couldn't she have just TM'd me? I probably shouldn't have said it, but I said to DS16 "why can't she just TM me?" He said he didn't know and I replied "how pathetic is that?"

But last night wasn't a total let down (he says with tongue in cheek), when they got home WW actually said 5 words to me! "did you get the mail?"

WOW, we're on the road to recovery now!

Hope:

Don't let YOUR anger get in the way of this recovery.

Your "I don't giva [censored]!" attitude will translate into a non-recovery.

If your still in Plan A, than Plan A!

If you want to go to Plan B, then go to Plan B.

EVERYONE is home this weekend aren't they?

Have you planned something that will force the four of you to do something together?

I do not CARE what your DS19 might want to be doing, or your DS16 either. Last week thay got the bombshell. Everyone is still in shock. H4U is the only person still not in a state of shock.

Time for a PLAN.

PLAN to be together. Dinner, perferably at HOME. IF you think that WW is going to not come to the dinner table, then take them all out. BUT only if you really think that she would NOT come to the dinner table.

Explain to your SONS that this weekend is NOT about what they want to do. It's about getting together as a FAMILY and it MIGHT be the last chance you get to do that. YOU having a good time with them and WW being withdrawn or sullen will have a MAJOR effect on her. "This is the rest of my life?" she will think?

YES, your WS should be kissing your BUTT right now.

There WILL come a time for that. You have come so far. Stay in the race.

LG

Thanks for the advise as always LG.

DS19 came home, but only to get my car so he could go see his GF. She is in a drumline and is at the national competitions this weekend and it is the first chance to see her in months and will be the last chance he get's to see her for quite a few more months as she starts a drum and bugle corp traveling schedule after her school year ends but before DS19's does.

Last night DS16 went to some friends house after school and was going to stay there late so it would have been just WW and I at home for the evening and given that she refuses to talk to me AT ALL, I went to a minor league baseball game with some friends. Maybe I'm playing this wrong, but if it's space she wants (given that she acts like she can't stand to be in the same room with me), then space she'll get.

I can't plan A anymore. I just don't have it in me. And right now plan B is not an option, so I'm doing the best I can to detach from her. I still do little things to show her I'm still here, but emotionally I'm coming close to checking out (if I haven't already). I really wish the thing hadn't played out like it did and I'd have moved to plan B a while ago, but what's done is done. So I've just decided that I'm going to plan B her while still living together. Modified Plan B if you will. Mostly for my own sanity.

She claims she's told OM that she will not talk to him anymore, but I don't believe that for a minute. And outside of outing her to work and her possibly losing her job, there's not much I can do about that, so until she comes to the decision on her own to work on the marriage (if at all), I'm kind of stuck. And the way I feel about her right now it's becoming easier and easier to detach and get a life of my own. I know a lot of people here would recommend that I do expose to work, but if I did that there would be NO chance for us because to her it would be nothing more than an act of revenge and would reinforce her opinion of me that I'm controlling.

Will my "I don't give a sh*t" attitude get in the way of us possibly recovering? Maybe yes, maybe no. See, I feel like she's still not hit rock bottom and until she does she's never going to give us a chance. I've seen even since my exposure to the kids an attitude from her that she's smoothed things over with them and in her mind, everything is working out.

So, I guess if I need to have a plan, it is detach from her and give her the "space" she obviously wants. I'm done worrying about whether she's still in contact with OM. I'm done working on this. It's on her now to figure out. Might not be MB, but I just don't have anything left. When I look at her now I see nothing but a bitter old woman (even though she's still very attractive). If I don't see signs that she's beginning to come back to the marriage by the end of summer, then I'll do what I need to do then.

Of course, I'm sure with my emotional rollercoaster, I'll probably feel differently tomorrow, but these thoughts have been becoming more and more frequent that I don't know if I can ever forgive what she's put me and the kids through and I just don't know IF I even want to make the marriage work.

Just puttin down some thoughts.

WW continues her angry self. It's amazing what makes her mad the last week and a half. Whole weekend she only said probably 5 words to me.

If this is WD, it stinks big time. But as everyone who has gone through it, you feel like you're in limbo land. Is NC in place? Don't know. Signs point that way, but is that what it really is?

I took my wedding ring off on Saturday. It wasn't a statement to WW. My wedding ring was my dad's ring. He broke his ring finger and had to have his first ring cut off. With the finger break there must have been some nerve damage because after the swelling went down and they got him a new ring, it bugged him terribly. So he quit wearing it. When WW and I got married he asked me if I wanted to have his ring as my own. What a compliment! Of course I said yes and I've worn that ring for over 23 years with pride! But Saturday I took it off to do some yard work and when I went to put it back on I just couldn't do it. It was like I'd be dishonoring my parents over 50 year marriage (before dad passed) by putting it back on.

At some point Sat I think WW may have noticed because she seemed to get more angry. Did she get more angry because it had an affect on her that she didn't want it to? I don't know, and don't really care.

If she's truly NC it is 2 weeks today. I hope she begins to come out of this soon. I just know if she's not making the effort towards our marriage soon it will be a good indication that she has no intent of trying to make our marriage work and I'll then be filing for D. I'm done playing her affair games.

Thought I'd post an update since it's been a couple days.

Monday I got home from work and WW immediately greeted me with a "Hi". I had to turn around and see if someone else had followed me in the door. So I thought since she initiated I'd talk to her. We had several nice conversations throughout the evening. Not normal and really not warm or anything, but it was ok. When I went to bed I told her goodnight and she actually said goodnight back! That's the first time she's done that since D-Day back in Sept!

Last night she was back to being unresponsive. Not that she didn't answer me if I asked her a question, but she definitely wasn't in the conversation type mood of Monday night, so I didn't push it. Went to a sports bar with a friend and when I got home at 8:00 (don't I feel old? Go to a sports bar and get home at 8:00!) she was watching American Idol (which I hate) so I got the trash together for this morning and decided to go watch T.V. in the bedroom. I told her goodnight and didn't get a response.

So....If she's being true to her NC pledge, it's day 17. Monday was encouraging and last night was (from what I've read) a typical WD pullback. Actually I felt pretty good at her pull back as I was thinking Monday that that was how she acted before when NC had been broken. But with her pull back Tues I feel somewhat confident that NC is still in place.

DS16 and I are going out for sushi tonight. He asked WW if she wanted to go and of course she said "no" so DS16 said, "ok, dad and I will go without you!". Let her sit home alone and ponder if this is what her life is going to be. Hopefully it'll help her along in the WD process.

Thing is, now I'm finding myself VERY ANGRY at the situation. It's like I've been keeping all this crap bottled up inside me just trying to end the affair, and now that it seems like NC may be in place and her WD is progressing according to the script I'm finding my emotions are starting to come out. I've been triggering on so many things the last few days that I've been really down and wondering if I'll EVER be able to get over what she's done to me.

Time, Time, Time. I know. Doesn't make it any easier though.

Thanks for listening.

Haven't posted in a while. Been living through (what I think is) WD. WW has been very up and down for the last couple weeks. Monday will be 4 weeks of NC (if she's truly NC).

Kids continue to be pretty rough on WW. DS16 periodically rips on her with the times in between him trying to be loving to her, I think to try to get her to recommit to the family. DS19 has basically ignored her since the exposure. Where they used to talk/text each other every day, now it's maybe once a week and usually initiated by WW. When she does, the conversations are very short. Last night, DS19 was texting me and I shared with WW a couple things he said and it REALLY bothered her. I know she's feeling it that he's replaced her as his primary parental contact with me, but right now she's still blaming ME for that happening, not taking responsibility for HER actions that have caused the rift. This whole mess has brought us closer than we were before (which was pretty close), but I'm sad at the reason we've become closer. Both kids remind me on a fairly regular basis that they're glad I told them the truth, but WW is still holding on to the anger.

There are times when I notice WW TRYING. And I'm always sure to acknowledge her efforts. Some times I'll try talking to her and she'll ignore me and I'll start to walk away and she'll then say something that seems forced, but I appreciate the effort. She's still not O&H with me and still not transparent, but I figure for her to start being those things with me she's going to have to get through her WD further. At this point she's stil in the fog that she's never loved me so for her to give me what I need, she's going to have to get past that point first.

Yesterday morning WW started off in a pretty good mood (for these days) but then her mood swung and she was pretty quiet the rest of the day. Then last night with the TM's I shared with DS19 she was more angry. Part of the day WW was upstairs cleaning the bathrooms and she had the Country Music Channel on the T.V. in our (my) bedroom. She HATES country music, but OM is a big fan so I'm assuming it was a pity party for her. Like she was trying to hang on to something from the A (assuming it's over). Any FWW's want to comment on that? Am I correct in that assumption?

Just trying to get through this crap. I've detached enough that if she breaks NC and doesn't tell me about it, I'm filing for D. I've been going through this for over a year (when the lies first started and I first started getting concerned) and if she can't/won't break herself from this addiction, I'm done.

But don't get me wrong, I'm hopeful.

Hey Hope!! Glad to hear you are doing OK...sorry to hear you are still dealing with (what we hope is) WD. It is an ugly period of time, for sure.


I would say this is a pretty good assumption, yes. Also a good sign that it is indeed over. Remember that during WD, she is not going to be open to EN filling. Her love bank is closed right now. There may be times when she lets her guard down and gives you the chance, but peacefully co-exist would be best for right now. Once she gets through WD, you will have more and more opportunities to fill her ENs. Until then Dr. Harley says you are basically beating your head up against a wall, which only builds resentment in you and drains YOUR LB.

If she has had NC for 4 weeks, you should be at least halfway through the worst of it. Hang in there! I would suggest planning a short trip for just the 2 of you in about 4 weeks. Maybe a weekend getaway...romantic...to remind her of what you once had, etc.

Thanks LaLa. Yesterday was a pretty good day but by the end of it I could see a pull back coming.

We spent most of the day doing yard work. I grilled out and WW let me fix the whole meal. This is big for her as she hasn't wnated me to do anything for her for quite a while. She even asked me if I'd take her car and put gas in it when I went to the grocery.

After dinner she was texting DS19 about his move to an off campus apartment when the school year is done. She was laughing and talking with me like she hasn't in a number of months. She got out the lounge pants to sleep in I bought her a number of months ago which I thought was another good sign. But by later in the evening she started being quiet again. We were watching Desperate Housewives and there were a couple of thing that were said that "could" have affected her (kids talking about parents divorcing, one woman's EA etc). But that was when I noticed her starting to pull back some. When I told her good night she ignored me and then this morning when I told her I'd see her tonight she ignored me again.

So......I'm hopeful that you're right LaLa. NC/WD sucks and I'm to expect these pullbacks as she finds herself enjoying being around me and that just blows this A bullchit out of the water because if she enjoys being with me then it was all a waste and I picture she's really dealing with the conflicting feelings she's having right now. I'm just going to continue with Plan A and fill whatever needs she'll let me and hopefully as she gets further down the NC/WD path she'll open up and be more responsive to me.

YEP! That's it in a nutshell..or at least a big stumbling block for us extra stubborn arses. Saving face as we realize how absolutely ridiculous the fantasy was as opposed to what we were willing to give up. That's a tough thing to accept, and even harder to admit. Those walls are thick and you are doing great talking with her and being there for her when she will let you. When she shuts down, just let her be. Look for those opportunities and use them to your advantage as much as possible. Let her "catch" you in weak moments...such as looking through old pictures of your wedding/births of your sons, etc. You may laugh and cry and talk for hours...and then BAM! The next morning she's the Ice Queen. That's the way it will be for a little while longer...

There will come a time in a few weeks where the defensive walls come down for longer and longer periods of time. It is important that you try not to get into fights with her (she will try to instigate you!) and that you steer clear of R&A talks. Believe me, there will be time for that later. You are looking to woo her back into your marriage, just like you did when you were first dating. No heavy stuff, and that's why I suggested a little getaway in about a month. What do you think about that idea? Something fun with lots of distractions and little time to "talk." I don't know how close you are to a casino...that may be a fun distraction where you are still together but not staring into each other's eye sockets, if ya know what I mean. She has to feel comfortable and safe with you again (ridiculous, isn't it!!). But is IS the quickest way out of this he11!

I hope this works for you. I just want you to understand how STUPID I felt knowing that I had been willing to throw everything away for a scumbag loser. How embarassing! But, of course, that came AFTER *I* realized what a scumbag loser he was...and it took a while to let go of the fantasy myself. Like I said, it's a hard thing to admit to yourself, let alone everyone else. It's a big fall from the "too cool for you--mama's got a new flame" to "OMG--how could I hurt my family this way for a POS!!" With the loving detachment you have attained over the past couple of months, I think it may actually be a little humerous to watch...because, you see, you have know the truth all along!! <snicker> I know, my sense of humor is warped...what can I say!!

But that's the inner strength you need without coming across as haughty or condescending, just confident.

Thanks LaLa.

I hope you're correct. That's the part that stinks for us BS's. It's the limbo land of WD. You don't know if she's truly NC/WD or what.

I don't know about the getaway. Back when she agreed to NC she told me it would be a LONG time before she went anywhere with me. Of course that was the day after I exposed to the kids and only a month after I exposed her STD to OM. She told me that night she'd never forgive me for that one, but you're right. I just laugh inside at that statement. She's angry at me for telling OM that she has an STD? Why? Because it wrecked her little fantasy that they would be together for eternity! She told me OM was pretty upset at that one. It's another reason I'm pretty sure NC is in place. Probably also why he blew her off when she wanted him to come visit a couple times in Jan/Feb. I asked her why she was so mad about that as she tried to tell me that she had told him about it? If she told him, why mad if I told him (through OMW)? More FOG.

But it seems like she's slowly coming out of it. I know I need to just fill whatever EN's she'll let me for now and hopefully she'll keep progressing. But we'll see.