Guys, my H last night brought up a concern about DD12's weight. She was at a 50th percentile for a long time, but she gained 20 pounds this last year, and is now at 85th for her age and height. We took her to the doctor Monday for her asthma, and H wanted me to ask about a referral to a dietician, so I did, and we got one. I have very conflicting feelings about this, because I don't want to send her a message that we are displeased with her. because I'm not displeased with her, but even if I was, I don't think that is a healthy thing to share. I just don't know, nothing about it seems very clear. I do quiet things, like cook healthy dinners, buy healthy snacks like fruit for the house, find non-food rewards, and bring her to Curves with me. That's where my comfort level is.

H brought up the topic respectfully with me, but I really don't have anything to offer besides what I'm already doing. I understand his concern. I asked him to focus on things that he could do, like take her out to play ball or go for a bike ride, like they did before the surgery. Obviously not for a few weeks, but after that. He really didn't like those suggestions, they didn't seem drastic enough to him to make a difference, and he felt like I was putting this in his lap. I repeated the things that I do, and I think that is a good healthy set of things already.

H told her to do the elliptical machine for 15 minutes last night, but she was tired and didn't want to. They got into it, but I tried to give them the space to work it our. DD got heated, so I took her for a walk, but she got heated again and I let her decide what to do with that. I had asked her to let me know if she wants to go for a walk again. After that, I put in a calming yoga DVD, and I did the exercise myself while DD stayed in the room with me, listening while she played on the computer.

Any suggestions?

Well, the age of 10-12 is the typical age for girls to temporarily add on pounds, that klutzy stage. I gained 30 pounds when I was about 12, and didn't lose it until 9th grade, when my new friend and I started walking - everywhere, all the time. When I think back on it, I think my 8th grade best friend ditched me because she was going into drill team, and I didn't fit her 'mold' of beautiful young things that she wanted to be associated with.

That said, overweight doesn't carry the stigma it used to. D17's friends all give her a hard time for being too skinny! Because they are all, except one, overweight. Just how school is now.

But I would never accept her choosing to be overweight, if she were so predisposed, simply because I know it would be setting up a lifetime of disappointments, passed up job promotions, boys choosing her just cos they know no one else wants her and expecting her to give them SF in return for the 'favor' of dating her, and the health issues.

Granted, I can say all this cos mine was in the bottom 2% her whole life, but even if she wasn't, I would have put in an extra effort to turn the whole family's life around to make sure she starts developing patterns of exercise and healthy eating now, while I have the chance to influence her. I would have taken steps to ensure that the whole family started joining baseball teams, going on hikes for vacation, learned to cook together, that kind of thing. I would put my free time and relaxation on hold while I addressed the issue. And I would start making a point of finding ways to show D17 that it is a potentially bad path to take.

I hope that doesn't sound self-righteous, and I'm not trying to criticize your efforts, but it is my truth. I watched my overweight brother practically ruin his life because of his weight issues; I've listened to my husband judge women based on their body weight; I've watched my best friend practically die because of her eating issues and still be 100 pounds overweight; I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

When I was overweight, I was well aware of it, even though my mom never mentioned it; and I hated myself for it - I saw it as a personal failing, and in my mind, the only thing that saved me from staying like that was meeting my best friend who got me walking - therefore, it wasn't my own brains or personality. I think you'd be doing her a disservice by NOT talking about it, by not helping her think of it in terms of a temporary stage that she shouldn't stay in and has the power to leave.

Wow, cat, thanks for the response! I don't know if I was ready for the answer you gave, but I know that "Nothing Changes if Nothing Changes."

We have a lot of problems running in our family history, including obesity, so she sees the worst case; I think she understands about the consequences. She knows about the link between obesity and diabetes, sleep apnea, and other health problems, again, unfortunately, by seeing the worst case in loved ones. She doesn't see herself as obese, because she's not.

We talked last night, well actually I mostly listened, because like I said, I don't feel confident speaking about this. She said that she sees how the eigth graders got chunkier in 6th grade, and how as they got taller that they slimmed back down. She said that she doesn't see this as a problem for her, because she's really active. She's really sad that her Dad is pushing her to exercise, because she works very hard in a lot of things, but he still is not happy with her. I told her that I think he is very concerned for her health, and that I think it would be really hard when you see that someone has a problem and you don't know how to help them with it. She said that she wishes that her would just leave her alone about it.

We did have the kids in soccer during that season, but she didn't like it, and won't sign up for the second season. She does like going to Curves. She rides bikes a lot with her friends. We've been brainstorming other activities. I am hoping the dietician would be a neutral person for DD12 to talk with, too.

That said, Cat, after DD6 was born I heard for years what a failure I was with the weight loss. That didn't get me to a point where I got the confidence I needed to tackle it. I don't think DD12 is motivated by that, either. I'd rather see her motivated by the joy she gets from doing sports, and how good she feels choosing healthy nutrition.

Well, I wasn't actually advocating saying 'you're being lazy or selfish' or whatever. I was thinking more of how I deal with D17, which is logic-based. If I want her to do better in school, for example, it's not about her drive, I talk about ramifications of NOT studying. I show examples of jobs you get if you drop out of school or don't go to college. I look at career books with her to see what kind of degrees you need. I look at college entrance exams and requirements and help her compare them to her (dreadful) ACT score. In other words, I put ideas out there for her to think about and come to her own conclusion about why she should do it the way I think she should. It usually works pretty well.

That's why I made the suggestions I did, about what boys are going to think about you, whether friends are going to decide you don't fit in any more, stuff like that. The things that DO motivate tweens. She'd have to find her own motivation, or she'll just learn to sneak fattening food and get out of exercising. She has to want it for her own reasons.

As for your H, I don't like having to do it, but I have found that in certain areas, I just have to tell D17 that IMO, her father has a shortcoming when it comes to them. Not that he's a bad person, but that because of his FOO, he sees a situation one way when I prefer that she not. I think your D is old enough to hear some information like that if you couch it correctly, not as a DJ to him but just information on why he thinks the way he does. So that she doesn't think it's a reflection on how he feels about her.

Cat, I totally understand you on giving your daughter information on what happens to folks who go on to higher education versus those who don't as far as salary, work schedule, benefits, pension, opportunities, and so on. If my daughter didn't already see the consequences healthwise of obesity, then the same way I would inform her of that. But I personally would be very uncomfortable to talk about ramifications of overweight socially. I asked her if it looks like a problem socially to her, and she doesn't see it.

As far as her Dad's views, I do talk to her about how there is his Truth and her Truth, either of which may or may not be The truth, but we can try to understand one another. I don't know if that's developmentally where she's at, though.

I forgot to tell you, H told me today that he is ENTHUSIASTIC about going to a Retrovaille weekend, so I sent him the info. He said that I did such a good job taking care of him that he wants to do this. I'm wondering if he just wants to learn how to come to win-win solutions so he can get us to SoCal LOL. Jayne, that would be enough of a gift to me if we got a better marriage out of it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm sure you will not be surprised to get a book recommendation from me.

I first read it through the library (love the library), and am trying to implement some of the stuff for my family.

It's GREAT.

Called "Ending the food fight" by David Ludwig.

Of course, modifying a food plan is always difficult when you are pregnant. And now that I'm 2 weeks away, I'm just happy everyone gets fed! (lol!)

:-)

But it's really good.

A little update here. H is recovering well from his surgery. We were getting along worse and worse, and we're at the point where H is again looking at counseling options. I asked him to take the lead this time so I can know that he's into it and so he can ask the questions that he needs directly. We're looking at a local Imago Weekend this weekend. We'll find out today if it's too late to get into this one, and would have to wait until June. We have been looking at other options, too, like Retrovaille and weekly counseling.

I am still a little raw and ragged right now and have a hard time continuing going on like this. Even when it's calm in the moment, I am fearing H's DJs and fighting my reactivity. I asked H to leave last week for a month or so until we are getting along better. He has not, but I have my plan and am working hard at staying consistent with it, leaving the room, leaving the house. I used to have a lot of resentment about all this leaving I do, but I feel like I'm in survival mode right now and my first priority is to get away and stay away when he's hostile.

About the issue with DD12's weight, she's been a lot more active. We've been walking more, going to Curves, going swimming, and we cook home almost every night. DD12 started riding her bike to school again with our neighbor. Telly, I'll check out that book, too. It turned out that our insurance doesn't cover a nutritionist, but we talked to DD12 and she does have a lot of awareness about nutrition.

I don't mean to paint a one-sided picture. We are having good moments, too. Like an easter egg hunt, movie night, dinners together. We've made it through worse and I think we can drag along meanwhile for a short time until we can get the help that we need.

H and DD12 are fighting most days now, too, and I'm doing better not triggering to that, staying calm and inviting her to leave the situations with me, asking her when it's calm if she'd like to share her O&H. Just realized that I haven't asked my H that, if he'd like to share his O&H with DD12, and I will if there's calm tonight. I'm surprised to say that this isn't the biggest drain on my love bank right now. Either I'm doing better with loving detachment or my taker is out to the point that I'm more focused on getting rid of my pain than hers. I think that his problems with her stem from the same core hurts that his problems with me do, and that their situation will improve as her Dad addresses them.

ears, did you ever subscribe to that newsletter I recommended? It's available at www.daughters.com, and their website is good, too. It's also got some good stuff on dads dealing with daughters, which may help. I really can't recommend it enough, especially for families where the daughter becomes combative with one of the parents.

Thanks, cat! I did take a look before, and it does look like it will help. I will go ahead and subscribe. I'm sure that we're not the first family who has faced these issues. DD12 is not one of those stereotypical teenagers. She really wants approval and it is really painful to her to get these conflicting messages from her dad. "I love you, BUT" I know the feeling!

I'm so sorry to hear how things are escalating for you. I was really hoping that him having to recover from surgery would allow you some quality time together.

Can I suggest a website too? I don't know if it's a TOS violation. If so, I'll remove it if someone lets me know, or maybe a mod will remove it. The site is Tools To Life and it is sort of an all-around motivational site to help get your life in order and to set and keep goals and have a more positive attitude. The goals can be whatever you want them to be - diet, health, relationships, etc - this site just helps with your positive attitude and keeping track of your progress, etc.

It's sort of like FLYLady only it's more general, not about anything specific like housecleaning. There are even some FLYbabies there too! You are supposed to log in each day (if you can - but if you miss a day, just jump back in when you can) and there's a check list of things to do each day. I like to go through the check list in the mornings, and do the online activities at night before going to sleep.

If you go there, be sure to drop me a line! I'm Jayne241 over there too.

Jayne, thanks for the thought. We did get some good quality time together at first. I don't know what the root of the escalation here is. The pattern that I see is that every time that I'm working hard to do better at meeting ENs, like my push right now with the diet and exercise and cooking, it alerts his Taker and reinforces that I just need to work harder and lower my expectations. H works very hard in a lot of areas, and doesn't think my effort comes close to matching his.

Knowing that it would be unrealistic to expect that H would acknowledge my efforts, I am focused on things that I see value in. Working on getting healthy. Going back to routines in the house with the kids that worked for us before. A lot of it is going really well. But my goal, to find peace in our home, is harder to achieve.

Thanks for the link, it looks good. I used to have more motivational things up at my desk and at home. I do think that having reminders will help me in accountability. I haven't put my FlyLady Control Journal back together yet, so this sounds really good, thanks!

Are you at a place where you can POJA together on what each of you should or want to contribute? It sounds a little like you're both going off in different directions, proud of your effort, but the other isn't recognizing it - thus the frustration on both your parts.

Ears,

I don't know if I have asked you this before... if I did would you mind repeating it for me?

What are your top 2-3 EN's? What are your H's top 2-3 EN's?

What is your primary love language and what is your H's?

Jilly

H just decided that we're not going to the Imago Weekend due to tax bills that I was out of touch with. We do this scramble every year at tax time, to invest the maximum into his retirement that we can deduct on the taxes. This job that I took in September came with a salary increase that is higher than the amount we fell short by last year, so I thought that we were in good shape financially. I don't agree with this decision, but I'm not going to get anywhere trying to push one solution instead of looking out for others that we'd both be enthusiastic about.

Cat, I agree with you, I will ask him how he would feel about leaving the kids for like an hour and go to Starbucks (we do better doing this kind of talking in public spaces with a hot drink) and working out a short term plan.

Jayne, I'd say my top 3 ENs are

Family Support
Affection
Admiration

and it was a while ago that he took the survey, but I think his were

Domestic Support
Family Support
Attractive Spouse

My love languages would be Time and Physical Affection, and his would be Acts of Service.

I do think I am targeting my effort where he has asked.

Thanks, guys, for not throwing in the towel on me. It's really validating to have others see this as something that can be improved, too.

Oh ears, I'd never throw in the towel on you!

But I can't take credit for being thoughtful enough to ask about your top ENs. That was Jilly. But I'm glad you answered. It's good to keep those in mind.

If one of his is AS and yours is Admiration, is this a source of conflict, or can it be a source of good? Like, does he make requests along the lines of AS, that feel like NOT Admiration to you? Can you think of times when he has met your needs?

Re. that Tools website, yes I've actually replaced my FLYing morning routine with the Tools routine. It's working better for me that way, YMMV. I don't want to think about the mess I'd be without the Tools stuff. It starts out with training your brain to think positively, to find the opportunity in any situation, to get rid of excuses and complaints and take responsibility and power back. I think it fits in well with the MB principles of you can't change anyone else, but you have power and responsibility over your own stuff. The stuff you do in the morning really helps "re-wire" my brain to see what things I *can* do.

I'm glad you don't throw in the towel, because there are times where I do. I think I've nailed down where my inconsistency is coming from. In those moments, I believe that nothing's ever going to get better anyway, so what is the use fighting it, and I havd over my power. I do think that I can save my marriage, but even if I am mistaken about that, the things I am learning and doing are helping me get stronger and healthier emotionally.



Yes, when he
expresses that he is not attracted to me because of my weight, asks me why I don't get Lasik surgery
asks me why I don't get gastric bypass surgery
tells me that he doesn't want to kiss me because I was just eating or because I had sneezed
tells me he wants to wait until a few more days after my cycle is over before he wants to have SF together and waits so long that it's the next month already
tells me that my walk is wierd
or other things along those lines, it feels like the opposite of meeting my EN for Admiration and Affection. Like wonderin, there are times I find it really hard to find it true and enjoy the moment when he does express admiration, because so many times he says the opposite.

Yes, I can think of lots of times every day where he does things that meet my ENs. He's usually pretty attentive with the kids. He makes dinner a couple of times a week, and usually does the dishes when I cook. He does come up to bed more often now, and I like snuggling with him a lot.

Wow, I wish my H did half of what yours does. A fourth!

Do you think it is right that he loves you but has a disconnect in terms of who is being put upon more, i.e., he feels you're ragging on him and he has to defend himself? I know many men see the whole M thing as a battle to win or lose, and if they aren't pleasing the W, they just give up and say 'forget it, I can't win, I'm not trying any more.'

Cat, I do think that's it. He pretty much says as much, "I don't want to give you what you want because I don't get what I want." A battle. And then, like you said, he says I'm never going to be happy anyway, so why try. Even though I do tell him that I am very happy when he's not hostile and does make the effort. I am trying to view this with acceptance instead of DJing him for it. I found myself DJing his DJ this morning instead of lovingly detaching. I'll make my amends as a drive-by when he's calm, too, because right now it'll just sound like R talk if I own my part.

I am so grateful that the board is back up. This is hugely validating that all these people in a variety of situations come together and work to help rebuild these marriages from whatever state they are in. Knowing that others have been successful with these strategies in the past. And I don't just mean the marriages that are rebuilt, I mean the single lives that are rebuilt, too, are inspiring. That we can take our circumstances and be the thermostats instead of the thermometer, to bloom where we're planted. And it helps me to think of you all doing this in real life, too, instead of sloughing off the hard jobs, taking them and making a huge difference in your families and community.

Since the board's been down, I've been diving back into my Alanon Fourth Step, to make a searching and fearless moral inventory. Last week, I dove into anger, and this week, I'm working on resentment. I know the idea is not to give you anger or resentment, but to look at it objectively, like to be a mindful, kind mentor to yourself. To plan what you want to do to work with these things instead of just letting them eat away at you. But in practice, thinking about these things, past and present, I do feel anger and resentment in the present. I am ready to build a life where I will consistently experience these as a signal instead of trigger. It reminds me of that staircase analogy again. I thought that I was doing well with this stuff, and then I'm surprised at the amount of anger and resentment I still feel.

Cat, MrA, what you all were talking about this morning, about imagining what you want your dream to look like, really inspired me today. At work, a layoff was announced, and two more friends came to tell me they're resigning to take jobs elsewhere, and I realized, here I am, a sitting duck, waiting to see what happens to my job instead of taking charge of what I want to be doing. My company announced Chapter 11 months ago, but I kind of like to "wait and see" before looking for new opportunities in these situations.

Well, tonight, I looked at my favorite tutoring place online, one really similar to one I'd worked at and loved every minute. I was looking for the franchising link, and followed it, and saw that they have existing ones for sale as well. I followed that link, and the one right by my house, the one I look at and think, I'd like to do that, is one of the ones for sale! I've been very active at DD6 and DD12's school, so I'd probably know some of the kids personally already. I emailed for the franchise recruiter to call me for more information. I am SO excited. I'm not building up any expectation. If I don't today have the resources to buy this one, at least I can learn more about it for when I am ready