I don't know what I buy out of all of this. I am the BS of a 17 year marriage (well, 14 yrs married + 3 living together). I couldn't believe that he could throw away 17 years for this. I have to say, I wish I could be like your XW. But instead, I pined for WSTBX, for a time anyway. But the pain and damage that he cause me, DS, our friends and extended families is immeasurable and long lasting. Our marriage wasn't great. He didn't meet hardly any of my needs. You could even say that *I* had become emotionally detatched from it. Nevertheless, I remained faithful, accepted the shortcomings, did what I could to meet his needs and tried to make it work. When I was blindsided by the A, I was absolutely devastated. Honestly, I don't know if I'll ever be the same.

I didn't drop him in the way your BW did you, but I wish I had. I think I'd be so much further along to healing if I had done this. I had every right. So did she. It basically comes down to a few simple facts:

1. There is no excuse for adultery, ever.
2. Infidelity is a choice.
3. There are no marital problems that can be solved by adultery.
4. The pain and damage caused by adultery is deep, long lasting and covers a wide path of destruction.

You can't change these facts. You chose infidelity and there were consequences. Many BS's do choose to try to recover their marriages but not all. You ask if one mistake is worth 17 years? I ask, was it worth risking 17 years for this? Sorry, but regardless of your prior marital problems, I cannot sympathize with you - see fact #3 above.

I remember posting to you before Black.

And it was very difficult to get you to answer a question directly.

I always had the suspicion that there was more than just a simple EA and a kiss.

You made a mention in one of your posts from last summer that you mislead OW about your marital status. Were you making promises to her? Did you profess your love to her?
Have you been honest about your physical involvement?
How long were you involved with her?

This was your wife's second marriage. Did her first end because of infidelity?

Also, at the time of your proposed move -- you were still involved with OW. I do not blame your BW one bit for not risking her future with you at that point. No matter how perfect the new opportunity was -- she was right not to gamble her future on a promise that you would give up OW.

You've read here how many times WH try to cake-eat, fence-sit -- whatever you want to call it. And you were no different. You were asking BW to change her whole life while you were still involved with OW (but you would give her up if BW would consent to the move....)

My advice to you now is no different than before. Do the right things and show consistancy. There is no guarantee BW will have an interest in restoring your marriage -- but live your life the way you should and maybe you'll get the chance.

Hey Lexxy...worked with Steve to try to reconcile a lot of things. And it helped a lot. As for your questions, I was honest with BS about everything...And, the aggressive nature of the D proceedings took me off track a bit, and my counseling helped right that. We had entered into higher level power struggle than ever before, and if I wanted to try for my family, I had to break first and hard. I did. I didn't want to...I was being pummeled with the LB's...prior to and after...wow. I understand why, but I am a human being and I didn't respond like I should have. But, with Steve, we couldn't conjure up an "ideal scenario" to convince BS of a another go. So, I just did, and do, work the plan A...even if just to make things as smooth as possible to co-parent.

As for the job thing, my confusion and, ultimately, anger, involved my feeling that no matter what I did, it wasn't going to be enough to settle it down enough to grab hold and try to work with it. I get it that my BS didn't have to do anything....I was choosing the family despite years of LB...just like my BS had to choose despite a ton of crap. I know it's not fair...and the restraint exercised there would have had to be enormous. (As you may recall, my now "infamous" drive occurred at the point of discovery and my initiation in to some counseling, it all converged around the same time. I committed to break it and go...go then if that would help, ahead of my family...move, get out of town, find a new home for us, start the job, etc... And start to find a therapist that could help put it back together in some way that maybe worked...)

The job, while a significant loss and consequence for me, started because it was what my BS had wanted (more $)....It was an ideal time to break from this...There wasn't a gamble for my BS as I saw it...BS's family out There, not here, security There, not here, friends There, not as many here...and, above all, the risk of this OP eliminated...this strategy is recommended in a lot of cases, and made sense to me, anyway. A clean start...now, we both are tied to the area in which we both live, and hadn't planned on living long. Little possibility for advancement...My BS's family not near, though some of mine are. Financially, I am devastated, although my BS is wealthy. Just sort of stuck. I do know that this is the hit that I take for the behavior....and I will regret it as well as the consequences to all. So, I have had to shift my definition of my self, my family, my career, my life...and, truly, now, it really doesn't matter. I just want to be a good parent to all four of my kids.

Thanks for the advice on the SD. I found it reassuring and motivating...to live the mistake, and its resolution, every day, with as much honor as I can muster....and work actively to ensure the my focus remains on my family at all cost. I will follow your guidance on continuing to Plan A...despite the ultimate outcome. My son was with me the other day...we were attending a church function and his friend came over and introduced himself...it came out that his folks were divorced too. My sweetheart of a son said, "mine are too..but they still are friends." So, I hope that is evidence that I am giving the kids the impression that I care for my BS still, want to stick together as a family, even if it means separate houses, and that I'll always stand by....

Oh...and Lexxy...as for infidelity in the first marriage for my BS? Not to my knowledge...My BS evidently had a step out at some point due to the level of LB coupled with a major substance abuse problem...My BS married, and left, within a year...with our daughter...but that's all I know....

Okay...bizarre. Can anyone tell me what THIS means? I have been off pursuing some education related to my profession and therefore not on duty at work. The former OP called a colleague at work to relay a message to me...My BS apparantly sent the OP a text message over the weekend saying, "Are you done yet?"...One went to my Mom too....

Now, I haven't had any form of contact with the OP for almost a year, certainly no type of relationship... longer...

I know that night my BS was out with an old neighbor, drinking heavily (my BS always calls the kids really early on "off weekends" ...when out drinking,usually....sometimes this is when destructive calls, emails, and texts come in to me...I just ignore them). Anyway, after getting a tattoo (lord...completely out of character), the texting evidently started.

I did not contact the former OP when I learned this news, nor did I ask my colleague to relay anything...just ignored it.

My thought was to say something to my BS like, if you would like to talk to me, I would love to hear what you have to say...but it would imply contact, which I DONT have....but I don't want to miss an opening....Is this an opening? More destructiveness? A set up? I am confused...

Can anyone make anything of this?

Just how far did this affair go?
How long in months?
How deep in feelings?
How much does your XBW know?

From her texting, it sounds to me like she believes you are still involved. And she very likely believes it was more than you ever told her. There is a very human reaction of assuming the worst....because if you prepare yourself and deal with the worst case scenario you protect yourself from more hurt. It sounds like that is what your wife did.

If you are "friends" can you try talking to her?

I would not reveal anything about the round-about way you heard about her text. She would assume you know because you are still in close contact with OW.

Hey Lexxy...

I think you are right...No, I wouldn't say we are "friends" at all. Barely speaks to me, and usually focused rather than on anything about us. When it is on us, it deteriorates so quickly to destructiveness, that I just try and shift gears, distract, whatever. I would love to have that conversation...from beginning to end. There was a lot of hurt in this relationship...and I wish we could get to THAT too...never to dismiss the pain of the OP, but there is so much...good and bad...that could be addressed...Anyway, whenever I try and go that route, I get "blank text received" which is code for *&%$#" you.

Anyway...

Knew OP in context of my work for years. Friends. BS knew the OP a little. Grew to be more and more emotional over the course of three months or so, and then I got into counseling because I knew I was in deep. I would describe myself as def having loving feelings for this person, but of course a lot of angst. I knew it was wrong. There was some physicality, but not full blown....at that time. I did share everything that had happened up until that point, and asserted we were at "crisis" mode and needed some help (per the counselor)...I was a very taken aback by the aggressiveness of the papers I was served...based on that...but, I get that, when there is mistrust...it's there.

Doesn't really matter. I won't split hairs. Really, it was the emotional part that was so involving...and, once in, your in. I won't quibble about level of involvement. It hurt no matter what. After a year of constant destructiveness (and, I have seen a ton of things in court, but this amazed me), I blew it because MY anger got the best of me. We were separated, my BS out of the house, so I figured...screw it (classic cognitive cut off)...and I re-engaged the OP and the relationship did grow more physical. I believe it stemmed from the level of destructiveness from the court feelings...I didn't hold my restraint well...and I figured I had been so villified, lost everything...literally...family, career, reputation...I felt some was deserved, but I wasn't going to completely own that my mistakes made a complete *&^% up...and I will regroup and regain some honor. I am committed to that....and I am actively building a protective structure, kicking the other to the curb.

Anyway...I eventually called it, then tried to Plan A and create the ideal scenario....just walkin the talk. Didn't really expect anything, but I certainly felt I was being a better person to the one's I loved the most. Been that way for over a year. Told everything...to my BS, to Court, to my family. I did get to say, outloud, in court...when the attorney asked if I wanted the D...a loud 'no'....I did get my say, even though it didn't go my way.

I just was taken aback by the text. My BS got what was wanted, right? I am really confused. And yea, Lexxy, I don't want to give any impression about being in touch....I thought I would let it lie...but I hate to have an opportunity go by..

Sent a text to my step about her drug and alcohol use. She denied, but she unfortunately has it out there in a very inappropriate, vulgar way (with accompanying photos...sigh)...I just let her know she needs to get her arms around it, it is illegal (a sticky point for me), destructive, and high risk given her background with it....She told me to leave her alone...and I said I couldn't...and would be available if she needed anything. I am not going to harass her...but I felt like I wanted to make my continued commitment known. Wished it had gone better...

Hey guys....can't seem to get out of this low place....I saw a post the other day where someone was discussing a move from the marital residence. My BS left...kids and I remained in the home for last couple of years...BS wants to force sale, I just want to keep the kids in school...BS won't negotiate....as BS comes from wealthy family, money is no object. I cannot afford to live in the affluent area where we currently live and, as I have custody, it will force a move. I am so sad for the continued loss for the children....

I understand the consequences of my actions...but I still keep thinking about second chances....and why we couldn't have one....kids have told me BS considering a job in California? WHAT? How can that be....what does that mean? BS cannot go, as children have to stay here....the stress is too much. Does it ever get better? Easier....

Of course, this obviously points out that my actions certainly were not worth it...but I have no understanding of this dynamic between my BS and myself....how did it get to this...

Can you tell her you want to call in a mediator?

Hi Cat...

I wish...200k ago....BS won't negotiate....Forced mediation two years ago as part of legal process...Mediator said he hadn't seen anything like it....BS wouldn't even speak....anyway...We are now in a 4th trial over the sale of the proceeds of the house....it's a nightmare...I just want to get into a home for the kids....Pension gone (to cover the legal fee's of 3 trials...now going into 4)...some separate property I had mysteriously disappeared....I have mounting legal fees and cannot keep up....

Okay..but it gets even more strange...this weekend, BS's with the kids, I worked OT, then was doing yardwork...kids called and invited to a movie with BS...caught off guard...I said sure, love to...okay with BS? All was cool, so we went to see a movie together...like old times. My youngest sat between us...held both of our hands...looking at us both...side to side...the whole movie....it was sad because I know ALL the kids were so happy we were together.

Then, was working out at my gym today, to which BS also belongs...BS brought kids...thrilled to have another opportunity to visit them on what otherwise wouldn't be my weekend....Kids were hungry, so I volunteered to get them lunch at the club restaurant...while BS finished workout....BS joined after a bit and we had lunch together..

What the hell is going on? THIS preceded by recent paperwork about more aggressive litigation....

I just keep walking ....working hard, focused on kids, trying to recover financially...stressed about finding a place where kids can stay in school...trying to A...just to be the person I am now....

I don't understand...Anybody have a thought?

blackntwrk;

Yes, actions do have consequences..

No telling what's going on, maybe hoping to take you off guard before you go back to court?

And if you can't keep up why are you paying for gym membership and for lunches at the club? Seems inconsistant. Seems like some things would be cut out so that you can afford other things..

So why do you think you should be given a second chance?

What have you learned?

Sure you've apparently lost out on a lot financially because of your choices, and your going to lose your fancy house, and fancy clothes and soforth..but what have you learned, about yourself, about marriage?

Why did you commit adultery?

Why should your spouse believe you wouldn't do it again? Just because your just realizing what you would lose financially? something you apparently didn't think or care about before, now the gravy train has left the building and your wanting a second chance???

I'm not meaning to sound mean, but you need to figure out why you want the marriage to work and what would make it different the next time if you could..

What if nothing within the marriage changed that led you to commit adultery before, what would prevent you from doing it again?

Well...I can assure you there is a mistaken impression about my financial status in some regard...First of all, as a result of my profession, my agency covers my health club membership....and i used a gift card I had been given as a promotion to get the kids lunch...I manage my finances well...there has been some irregularities with our separate and community assets over the years which have resulted in the loss of significant liquid assets which have compromised my and my children's security...

You have hit a sore spot with this one Thorn....I am self made...earned everything I have...no fancy anything here...pretty simple...with right financial priorities...BS came from affluence...and frankly, it is/was a lifestyle that never fit for me...but therin lies a different story....Not interested in the gravy train....and, I am a bit offended that your comments are so basic....For me, it was about being a comfortable couple, working together for something larger...and being there for our kids. I know a lot more now, than I did then...none of this had anything to do with money...other than what has since been discovered about some impropriety that I didn't notice...I wasn't watching the store, so to speak...and some funds, from my much more humble family, have been affected...and that isn't right...but that is just an incidental, though important, dynamic in this mess...

Many of the questions you ask are certainly legit...I have been walking the walk for about a year now....trust can only be established with sustained performance...which I have provided.

Why do I want the marriage to work? Jesus...for my kids...because of the life we could have had and now is gone....I don't know how to answer that it is so huge...

However, what I do know...is there were very dysfunctional things here...and we couldn't get it around them...Yes, I stepped away and was wrong. Doesn't stop me from wanting to try anyway....I guess....and there was a contribution on that side...This doesn't define the total marriage....it was a part of it...with a long history of what I considered to be really good, to simply cordial...with some time that was really bad, sad, dysfunctional....

If it never changed...hard to say. Knowing the impact on my kids....I likely would have lived with it, found other ways to sustain me....because every day I hate it for them....Harley and I talked about the ideal...and that is what I tried to hard sell...BS wasn't buyin...and I understand...I still wanted...but, there is a point that, without functional relating and without reciprocity, I don't think it would have worked out...

Would have liked the opportunity to try, though....You may disagree, but based on my prior 15 years...I will always believe I deserved a second chance....