Wow, more folks with the spiritual gift of assumption.

I NEVER said end the life of the child, this is something YOU are filling in.

I think even she said her husband encouraged her to offer the child up for adoption, and she said that was non-negotiable, unless I'm totally missing what was said.

Who said anything about ending the life of the child?

Not me!

Good gravy!

Read for yourselves:

She actually OFFERED to abort early on. Your post was quite vague and appeared to be saying she needed to get her H's approval to continue the pregnancy. I AGREE that adoption is an option.

So if my post is vague, is it MB policy to assume, or to ask for clarification?

Since the only thing mentioned in this thread was that he encouraged her to give up the child and she claims that's non-negotiable, that's what I based my post upon.

Oh God, do we have a policy for that now too?

It's a conversation...people make errors in a discussion...move past it!

I'm just looking for a consistent standard for one thing.

Another thing, if folks are MB'ing, then isn't it a good policy for them to act this out in their daily lives. After all, if we have practice one standard here, and try to practice another standard in our marriage relationships, are we setting ourselves up for failure?

I don't particularly like folks putting words into my mouth.

I can't imagine such behavior helps folks who practice it in their relationships.

Perhaps it's wrong for me to assume that folks here are looking to eliminate LB's and work on their marriages.

If I see someone who LB's, I point it out. I think this is consistent with MB'ing. If my spouse does something that irritates me, it's my job to point it out. If I do something that irritates another, it's their job to tell me that my behavior is irritating.

However, to tell someone how they should respond or act, isn't that controlling behavior? Telling someone they should just get over something is a controlling behavior, no?

Asking someone if their behavior is consistent with MB principles isn't controlling behavior. If they decide they want to continue that behavior, it's their business.

If they don't want me to ask, they are free to make a respectful request.

So please, don't tell me what I'm supposed to get over or be bothered by or not bothered by.

Ironically, Dr Harley's radio broadcast right now is talking about pornography and that men tell women to just get over it.

I get the impression that telling someone to "get over it." is not an appropriate response.

FWIW

No, IMHO, it isn't.



It happens sometimes. YOu get an explanation and move on. I think the bigger issue here is making too big a deal of it.


Nobody here is looking to add to your love bank.


I think you should try and lighten up a bit....you seem very tightly wound over something so small.

So why do you feel the need to try to control me?

After all, who put you in charge of deciding if I'm over-reacting or not?

bye.

EX, while I neglected to apologize for assuming I understood what you meant (am I do apologize), I thought I clarified why I made that assumption. There was a whole discussion about brooke having an abortion in another thread.

I accept your apology, and should have said so before.

I didn't participate in that other thread, or at least I don't think I did, so I would have no way of knowing she had considered an abortion.

So imagine my shock, as a pro-life individual, that someone would wrongly assume that I was advocating an abortion.

No worries.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with this statement in any way. IMO, there are certain types of adultery that are unforgivable, and from my perspective, Brooke managed to engage in two of them. She had an A with her BH's best friend, and she got pregnant in the process. For me, either of them would have been a deal breaker.

For her BH to forgive her, he would have to deal with a double betrayal, plus the constant reminder of that double betrayal, and that doesn't even get into how Brooke is in no way trying to help her BH deal with any of this.

Obviously, some may be able to get past those circumstances, most could not.

I know how tough it has been to deal with a ONS, followed by a short term EA, but to be betrayed by my W and best friend, plus be forced to raise their child would simply be out of the question for my own self respect and self preservation.

Simply put, different people have different tolerances.

mine too.

I guess I don't worry too much about self-respect.

I had a fiancee in college who ended up sleeping with a friend of mine, on a regular basis, and eventually, after some thought about it, ended the relationship.

So when I married another woman, about 8-9 years later, (you can say I dated around for quite a while) I had some pretty extreme views on cheating that I shared with my wife when we were dating.

I really think that she recalled what I said and could have been scared, as I said that if I had ever caught my wife in bed with another man, I'd probably shoot the man on the spot, given the pain I experienced with having the woman I was planning to marry do this to me, with a friend no less.

So while I didn't catch my former wife in bed with another man, I didn't rush out to gun him down either. Why? Well, I had a child and I didn't really want my wife or me to live in fear or with that added guilt.

So I was willing to forgive, because years of growing up changed my perspective.

Of course, this off-hand remark while we were dating in my late 20's could have left her with some fear. Once she left the home, she never looked back.

So while I didn't think I could ever forgive such a thing, I hardly ever think about my college fiancee, and I really don't think too much about my ex-wife.

Occassionally, something like what I just mentioned comes to mind. Recalling a comment or conversation from more than a decade ago now. But other than that. I don't really hold it against her as in being unforgiving.

I am still staunchly against affairs, and still say they are abusive acts, as damaging as physical, verbal or emotional abuse. That doesn't mean that those who have engaged in such abusive actions have to remain an abuser all of their lives.

But I do believe we need to be clear that cheating on someone, breaking your word, sleeping with another when you've pledged to be with your spouse only is abusive behavior.

When we hear about the Hollywood elite who are hooking up on movie sets, where is the outcry about how these folks are abusing their spouses?

There isn't, it's fodder for a supermarket tabloid.

What about the movies that feature affairs? Where is the outcry that these people are abusing their spouses?

Many of the plot lines blame the betrayed spouse, the betrayed spouse wasn't available, was abusive (so that makes returning abuse OK? That wouldn't fly if I said my wife was emotionally and verbally abusive so I hit her, so why accept this sort of blame-shift when it's part of our entertainment?)

I'm against the behavior, and against the glorification of the behavior. I'm not about sugar-coating it. If it hurts your feelings to read this, is it because I'm being cruel, or is it because you feel convicted by the truth in the message?

Affairs are abusive! Period. Just yesterday, listening to Dr Harley on the radio he said there is NEVER a justification for an affair, never.

If you are being abused, then leave. Don't become an abuser by having an affair.

If you are having an affair, stop today. Look at yourself in the mirror and say I'm a spouse abuser and I have to stop abusing my spouse today.

You don't have to remain a spouse abuser, but if you are cheating emotionally or physically on your spouse, you are a spouse abuser.

There is no valid rationale for an affair, ever!

We don't accept rationalization attempts for other types of abuse, and I think we need to reject it when it comes to the abuse known as affairs.

I think there is a difference between degrees of sin vs degrees of punishment. All sin no matter how big or small, separates us from God. James 2:10 says: If someone obeys all of God's laws except one, that person is guilty of breaking all of them.. God doesn't dismiss small sins anymore than he dismisses big ones.

But despite the fact that there are not degrees of sin, there are certainly degrees of punishment and consequence. All sins result in separation from God, the consequences for stealing a dollar from your father's bureau, are much less the consequences for robbing a bank. They are all infidelity and sinful, but.....Looking at porn has a consequence. Adultery has a greater consequence. Adultery with a BS's best friend has even enormous consequences.

Here is an excellent biblical discussion about it:

http://the-churchofchrist.com/sin/are_there_greater_and_lesser_sins_and_punishments_for_sin.htm


However, all of this is moot because our forgiveness or our arguments about what is/or is not forgivable <to us> are not binding in this situation......and we can't stop either God nor Brooke's husband from forgiving her if they want to. It's their forgiveness that counts in the real world. Gods grace, is independent of any condemnation from anyone here.

Wanting to keep this baby could definitely be a wayward mindset....or NOT....it could also be a natural and maternal drive and part of the biochemistry created by pregnancy. There is a reason that God makes it so hard instinctually for women to give up their children....it's an evolutionary yearning that may be even stronger than the lust or the affair.

Brooke, if you're still out there....I hope you will get some spiritual counseling and seek forgiveness with God. I hope that you are able to help your exH in some small way that demonstrates your remorse without harming him further.

How about if Brooke just has her child, loves, nurtures and raises the child withing the realm of God's love, and leaves the rest of her destiny in the trust that the Lord will love and provide for both of them.

By doing that, she will have reliquished her will to God's will.

any chance that might work out????


All blessings,
Jerry

yeah...it's weird how the majority of women have an issue with adoption but favor keeping abortion legal.

"I can't have the baby and give it up...but I CAN abort it."

Crazy beyond measure.

Star*Fish,

I normally agree with what you say. However, in this instance, I tend to disagree.

I will concede that it's likely not a desire for the affair, but can be, as you say, a maternal instinct.

However, I think we can agree that God's plan for marriage is that our spouse comes BEFORE our children.

I'm not saying God promises that will be easy. However, it seems to me that the most important human being is supposed to be our spouse. So our children come AFTER our spouse in the priority hierarchy.

So wanting to keep the child, knowing her husband doesn't want the child, goes against this hierarchy.

She is putting her desire for the child ABOVE her husbands desire to not have the child in their home.

So call it wayward, or call it bad priorities if she wants to save her marriage. Either way, it's not a choice that is conducive to building a marriage if that is what she wants to do.

I do agree with the rest of what you say, that the pain and consequences of our sins do vary based on the impact of our sins. So while all sin separates us from God, taking a parents pocket change vs robbing Ft Knox will produce different consequences in our lives on earth.

I also agree that Godly counsel is a good idea.

You don't feel as guilty about giving it up if you call it a "fetus" instead of a child and never have to see it. You can just pretend it never existed.

Did anyone ever consider exactly why and when life should be conceived, regardless of our humanistic view towards all of this?

Why on earth, do we have the the inhherent right to decide why our very own creator has to have our approval in the creation of human life. HE DOES NOT NEED OUR APPROVAL!

He is soverign and has all power over us and the creation of life, irrespective of our own personal point of view.

My w gave bith to a child of rape at 17 years old. that child who is now an adult had as much right to life as any one of you and I.


How dare any of us judge the right to life over rebuilding a M? there is no comparison, except for toatally selfish reasons.

Life and it's creation shall always trump our own persanal desires for what we wish for in life. Just as it should be!!!

All blessings,
Jerry