Thank you for your thoughts. I truly appreciate it.

I did have a thought occur to me that hadn't occured to me previously. I can't go back and change the past right now, but am wondering if I had dragged him to counseling, continued to live together here, could I have trusted the counselor to help turn his thoughts around and make him see that even though he's going to feel like crap, that he must get the OW out of the picture? I honestly don't think I have enough trust and faith in a counselor to be able to do that, but I didn't seriously think about that as an option either. I felt and still feel like I'm battling this alone; but now, I have 'someone to talk to' here. Thanks for listening and offering up support.

I'm second guessing myself now that he has moved out. But, he is out. Says he's read Chapter 4 of Surving an Affair (How do Affairs End?) and he says it "rings true and actually opened my eyes."

I know he will contact me before he just stops over, if he stops over for anything. My intent is to not be here when he does.

It does give me some comfort to know that he's at least READING the Harley's books.

I would not wish this hurt, confusion, hollow-ness on anyone.

I hope you have read up on the concepts here. First, you have to set up your plan: Are you in plan A or are you in plan B. If you are still in plan A, you should follow plan A behaviors. It sounds like you still have enough love for him in your love bank that you can continue in plan A even though he is out of your home. You go into Plan B when you feel your love bank draining and you need to separate yourself from him to save the small remaining love units in your love bank so that you can salvage the relationship when he comes to his senses.

So make a decision--Plan A or Plan B.

I do not understand why you think a separation will be helpful to your marriage. He does not need to be apart from you in order to decide if he wants to remain with you. He needs to be apart from you so that he can behave in an independent manner. Wayward spouses separate from their spouse so that they can carry on their relationship with the other person and not have interference from their spouse.

You celebrated his departure but that does not mean that you have to continue down that road and thereby encouraging his affair activity. You can tell him that you have thought about it and that you have had a change of heart about his leaving your home. You can tell him that you feel that he belongs with you in your home. You don't need to get emotional about it, just state it as a fact. You can say that you don't think that his being apart from you will help your marriage. Then procede to be the best person you can be. Take care of yourself in your plan A. Try to remember the things that you feel make you attractive to him and make sure that you continue those behaviors. Try to think about any love busters that you commit and eliminate them. Think about what you want to do for yourself to make yourself the person that you want to be and add that to your Plan A.

But remember, you are not the one boinking another person and carrying on in intimate ways with another person. You are not to blame for his wayward behavior--that is a choice that he is making.

If you keep his wayward behavior a secret for him, it makes his wayward behavior easier for him to continue. That is why exposure is necessary. Add to your plan a decision about who you want to ask for help in getting back your marriage. Expose the affair to these people so that they can assist you in your efforts to recover your marriage. This can include the children, close friends and relatives, and even workplace people.

Remember, waywards lie--they lie to their spouse and they even lie to themselves. They just say things that are intuitive defense statements to protect themselves so they can continue their behavior. Words just fly out of their mouths that are lies. They lie about seeing their affair partner, or having seen their affair partner, or that they are going to see their affair partner. That is why you need to snoop in order to get accurate information about what is going on in your marriage. Your husband is not going to tell you anything accurate right now. You need to get that information on your own.

Yes! I almost said this earlier. It sounds to me like you are waffling, doing some sort of combination Plan A and Plan B. If he still thinks coming over is an option, even just to get something, that isn't Plan B. If he calls you and you answer the phone, that isn't Plan B (even if he's calling to say he'll come over, and then you make sure you aren't there when he comes.) In Plan B there is NO contact. Even in cases where there must be communication due to child care issues, communication goes through an intermediary. You don't have child care issues so there isn't that excuse.

I don't know, but it seems to me that the combo Plan A/Plan B you describe is the worst of both worlds. He's out of the house so the goal of Plan A, *you* filling his Love Bank, is more difficult and he has as much easy access to OW as he does to you. Plus you are avoiding him, ever so slightly, which is not the way to be the best Plan-A spouse you can be. So the goals of Plan A aren't being met.

But he can still get his "fix" of you by calling, etc, so he isn't going through "withdrawal" of you. Even if you avoid him and leave when he calls, that isn't the same as NO contact. And it isn't the same as him KNOWING that you aren't available for him to call. Even if he doesn't call, as long as he THINKS it's an option, he can take comfort in that while he continues the A. That's called cake-eating: he's having his cake and eating it too. So the goals of Plan B aren't being met either.

I hesitate to say these things because I haven't read your entire history. If I'm wrong, I apologize. But please, make sure you are actually doing either Plan A or Plan B. A mixture of the two isn't the best of both, it's the worst, because it defeats the purpose of both plans.

I agree with everything lake said, but I'd like to re-emphasize some key points:


If you are not sure about following this advice, to decide on a definite Plan A or Plan B and to work out the details of your plan, then just try this: try following him or driving by his place, find out if he's seeing the OW.

If you find that he is, then come back and work out a GOOD Plan A or Plan B.

Hi Marie,

I would strongly suggest you contact Steve Harley for counseling. He'll help you put a plan in place that will get you where you want to go with recovering your marriage using MB principles. It will be the best money you have ever spent. Many here, including myself, can testify.

To schedule an appointment with Steve, you may use one of two options:

Call toll-free: 1(888)639-1639

or

e-mail: counsel@marriagebuilders.com


MB Phone Counseling: CLICK HERE

MB Coaching Center: CLICK HERE

God Bless,
Jo

Jo, I'm calling Steve today. I'm losing my mind.

wtf? Why do I have a smiley face? Where's the one with the bags, puffy eyes and red nose?

Marie, you feel like you're losing your mind because your spouse is screwing with it. My screen name symbolizes the mental ward. I was also nutz.
MB is the way to go. Steve Harley has the answers. Good luck.

You still haven't answered whether or not you have exposed.

Well, have you exposed the A?

Why aren't you going to be the one to tell the kids? Your WH obviously isn't going to. You tell the kids so that he feels the pressure to end his affair. You need to drop the bomb to the kids and his family and friends. Then you write him a plan B letter, change the locks, and have no contact with him until he agrees to the conditions of your letter. You see, he will continue to cheat as long as you allow him to. What you find out is that once you are done with his cheating, you hate him, and you want to move on, then he will end his affair and want to work on the marriage. Exposing your WH to the consequences of his affair and going to plan B where you have no contact with him will preserve your love for him and bring about the end of the affair more quickly, before you've had enough and are ready to move on.

Who is OW? Does she know your WH is married, and is she married? You should also expose her to her family and friends.

Yes Tabby, it's exposed-to everyone here except family (my kids are in college...one more week for finals-I won't put this on them until they're done. It's just not fair for them-they've worked too hard at school. Family is all in another state.) His boss, his friends, his TRAINER..as of yesterday our financial advisor-anybody I can tell that he got a girlfriend and left me, I am.

Last Wednesday I ran into the OW and her husband at Target. I said her name-she turned around and I asked her how she was doing-she said "Do I know you?" I said "You should, you're sleeping with my husband." Just as I said that her husband comes around the end of the aisle with their cart. I told them "it's too bad WS couldn't be here too! We could have ALL talked." Her husband looked about as bad as me.

OW told WS that she doesn't love her husband. That much I know. He knows about the affair too. Apparently he found WS's phone number on their phone bill, called and hung up. SO, everybody knows everything-but I'm dying because I know NOTHING.

WS has moved out-we have no contact. And I'm dying because I don't know where I stand. I'm TRYING get things in check but I'm so lonely here-I don't have support of any friends or family here-only been here just over a year. Not only have I lost my husband, I've lost my best friend.

I am not having good thoughts. About me. About him. About us. Certainly not her.

This board is the first and only place I've actually TALKED about any of this. Oh, and my journal, so thanks for listening, although I am leery of everyone and everything right now. Very leery. Not trusting my instincts or feelings at all.

Did OWH actually here you say that to OW?? Or is what you know about him knowing from your WH? If it is the latter, assume that it is a lie. You obviously know OW's name. Look up her phone number and call OWH. The OWH in my sitch was my most valuable ally through the whole mess. Once we were in contact, we knew every single thing that went on and uncovered every single lie.

Hi MJarie,
I am so sorry that you have to be in but I am glad that you found the support you will need so badly to get through this. I was still at the throwing up, getting by on three hours of sleep,feeling insane stage at your timeline. You sound so calm. (Up til the smiley post. (:
Listen to these good people if you want to save your marriage. I never even posted when I was going through it. All affairs, all WHs are so similiar that all I had to do was read and I was emotionally barely able to do that. We are now eleven months past D-day and doing fairly well in recovery. Some days better than others.
Don't hand your WH over to this home wrecking hussey. Call the Harleys and work their very effective plan. You will be in my prayers.
Say

Tabby, I saw his face. He knows. I have managed to find out her last name, but her last name is not the same as his last name. (She kept her name from her first marriage so it would be the same as her children's last name.) She has no children with this current husband, although my WS says "From what she says, he sounds like such a nice guy-he loves the kids like his own."...sigh. Believe me, I'd love to sit and chat with him. He looked like a broken, sad puppy.

(Left my msg for my Steve appt.)

Google her. Put her name in as many people finder searches as you have time for. Big Foot directories is good. It will probably list her BH. Do some of your own detective work if you have to. I could open my own agency after the past year. Avoid all conversation with your BH until you talk to the Harleys. You can do this.
Say

God bless google! I found out all I DO know from google! All I had was her first name and knew she's a 'local girl'-lucky for me her first name is somewhat unique.

I have recently found out where she works. As much as I'd love to spill the beans with that tidbit, I haven't. I almost feel like it's a card I may need to play later? I don't know. I feel so screwed up! I'm just trying to stay calm, cool, and play it smart on the outside, when on the inside it's a freakin' war zone.

Her work may be able to provide info on OWH. I strongly encourage you to make actual direct contact with him and ensure him that you aren't just somebody with a grudge trying to make trouble for OW (or whatever lie she's made up to explain what happened).

Play all your cards NOW and ALL TOGETHER! Exposure is best when it's done all in one fell swoop.

saynomore, I could kiss you. I used big foot and was able to piece together her address and her husband's last name. Best $10. I ever spent. Not doing so good on the phone number. The numbers listed on big foot are disconnected.

After running into them in Target last week, I do know what the OW vehicle looks like. I left the store before them and sat in the parking lot. Got lucky with a real good look. Get this...they came in two vehicles. They parked next to each other. Hugged and he got in his car and she got in hers. (IF I had been of SANE MIND I would have followed him/her or ONE of them but instead, I was so shaky and wound up after our run-in that I left before they did.)

SO, today, I drove by her house. Saw just the husband's vehicle in the driveway. Knocked on the door-wanted to give him my phone number so we could compare notes if he wanted to. Nobody answered the door. (Great...he must be out of town-his work takes him out of town often my WS had mentioned...my WS has his apartment conviently located to her home...any guesses where everyone will be tonight?)

So, I did the next best thing. I left her a note stuffed in the cheap fake flowers on her door. Told her that "I've loved WS since I was 14, my whole life- and that I would wait for him. Sorry I missed you."

(I'm REALLY sorry I missed her husband.) Next time.

I do believe I have an appt. w/Steve tomorrow. There was a message on my machine-now I have to figure out if it's THEIR central time time or my east time time. Won't matter-I'll probably be up anyway.

My love bucket is pretty low and not seeing him, or even just an email from him is driving me crazy. I keep checking, knowing that there won't be anything.

What's driving me crazy is not knowing if he's thinking of me AT ALL. Then, when I ask myself that, I just want to smack myself because of course he's not thinking of me! DUH! He's NOT the same man, he's NOT my friend-he's thinking of himself. He's playing with 'bright and shiny and new.'

I have some questions I need to ask Steve Harley, and a couple of stupid ones that I probably already know the answer to. Any tips anyone can share about how to get the most out of my session? This is a first for me.

Does this ever stop feeling like a really bad dream?

OK, so I can't blame the Harley's for not checking their voice mail during the off hours. My appt. was not confirmed apparently. I'll get back in touch with them today.

Last night was rough. This morning is rough.

We are living apart. I think I gave him the Plan B letter too soon. I'm wondering, knowing us, if I should still be in contact with him. He HAD said during the past two months since he told me about the OW and he was still living home, that through our talking, I had opened his eyes to things that he didn't see or realize before. Good things about us, and asked me not to give up on him.

I don't know how many of his EN I have filled before I gave him the Plan B letter. Maybe I jumped the gun on the Plan B letter?

I think he'd be receptive to see me and that that would give us opportunity to communicate. It seems that true communication is what was lacking in our relationship.

Since reading His Needs, Her Needs early on in this mess, when we talked about some of the things in the book, it brought understanding and clarity to both of us on some of the weaknesses in our relationship.

I just can't help but feel that right now, we should still be in contact somehow. I feel that I would have a better opportunity of filling EN seeing him occassionally. At this point, I'm willing to fill his EN as best as I can, expecting nothing in return.

Give me your two cents please.