IMHO. ONLY the BS can make that call. Some BS NEVER want to recover after an infidelity. That is their right and choice. The legal process is at best cumbersome and I do not believe that a BS should have to put their life on hold because of what the WS did to them(and because of a screwed up legal system).

I also do not believe a BS "fog" exists. I think what a BS deals with is hurt and the anxiety that goes along with it. I also have doubts about the WS fog as well..."fog" implies that they don't know what they are doing...yet, they somehow manage enough rational thought to hide their crimes from the victims in most cases. Personally, I think "fog" is an overused term here.

agree agree agree medc
the bs makes that call because the ws, in my opinion has already made that call.

nevermind, i guess i won't be bowing out just yet.

mlhb

I agree that the BS has the right to choose whether to continue or get divorced. If the choice is to get divorced, fine...I'm down with that...

But wait for the divorce to be final, instead of hooking up with somebody else out of boredom, pain, loneliness or revenge.

And when the BS begins a relationship with someone else and says..."He/she did it first.." as justification, then the BS is now the WS and is not thinking rationally any more than the WS was originally. Every WS always says "But we are different," "Things are different in our case," ...

What BS hasn't heard from the WS "the marriage has been over for a long time..."?

If you wait for it to be "over" then there can be no mistaking your motives or second guessing of your choices later. I don't think it is so much a matter of what is "fair" as what is "right."

The day belongs to son and his new bride. They should get to decide who gets to attend the wedding...hopefully without pressure to invite Mom's new BF or Dad's GF...or even to exclude one or the other.

Mark

"The day belongs to son and his new bride. They should get to decide who gets to attend the wedding...hopefully without pressure to invite Mom's new BF or Dad's GF...or even to exclude one or the other."


I agree with that statement completely as well.

mlhb

Tabby1



This is the second time you have mentioned your son rushing to the alter, as if he is running to get married just to get away from the hurt and pain he feels inside right now re: your marriage ending.

Has he gone to counseling at all?

Have you or has the person marrying them spoken to HIM about why he is rushing to marriage? Maybe if he won't listen to you, he would listen to a Pastor? Have you spoken to the brides family about your concerns about this? If not, maybe you should..maybe they could talk to your son and their daughter as well, about maybe waiting for a bit to get married..I mean, hey if they REALLY are "In LOVE" then they will still be "in love" in six months to a year right??

How old is your son? The gal he is planning to marry? How long have they been together?

This sounds like a bigger issue than whether or not you and your husband should/should not bring 'dates' to your son's wedding..

Not dating for those reasons should always apply. BUT, not every BS would do that. Some make clear, reasoned decisions to date. Healthy choices. Waiting for the divorce to be final might be ideal...but considering the snails pace of the procedure in some places, I think it is perfectly fine for a BS to date given the conditions I outlined.


See above.


What is right for the BS is for the BS to decide in this case.



Yep

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and opinions. We don't all have to agree to have a rational discussion. I asked my questions for just this purpose.

To clarify a few things, in my jurisdiction, the separation agreement is what carries all the legal weight. It is quite normal for people to separate and never divorce, or divorce years, even decades later. The divorce is only required to remarry. The SA states that you live separately as if not married. So people date and I have no moral or ethical problem with dating in my separated state. That isn't really my question here anyway.

I did come to MB initially hoping to save my M. That was when I believed the ONLY problem we had was infidelity. As we were going through the separation problem, I discovered all the money WSTBX had been stealing from the account - for years - to support his A that he insisted had only been going on for 3 months. He also turned into a monster that made sport out of trying to hurt me (showing up at my baseball games with OW etc.). He also started stealing items from my house when I wasn't home (both before I had it signed over to me and the locks changed and after) and even broke in after I had found a room mate and went rooting through her room and stole some of her stuff. Now this could be WS fog or whatever driving this behavior but I'm sorry, I just can't be with someone who is a liar, cheater AND a thief. So I am exersising my right as a BS to terminate the M.

Finally, I'd like to address this:


This really is the true problem and I do believe he is rushing into this due to the events of last year. He is 19 years old. He has dated the bride on and off through high school but last summer (after the separation) he went a bit wild and dated a whole bunch of different girls. Then she came back from her exchange program and they got back together. They got engaged around Christmas and insisted on getting married right away. Everybody begged him to wait at least until they are finished school (they both have one more year and their schools are in different cities). When they told us the wedding date, I told him that was 1 day from the separation date but it didn't matter. Now that the 11th hour has arrived, he's starting to realize why people make their fortune first, then get married. They don't have a car and the logistics of the final arrangements are a nightmare. If they had waited a year, both WSTBXH and I could have helped out with some of the costs but we are both still trying to get our own finances in order.

He has spoken to a pastor. He has spoken to myself, WSTBXH, both grandmothers, my best friend (practically a second mom to him), as well as her parents - all who felt they were rushing into this and that the timing stinks. I tried to get him to see a counsellor right after the separation but he didn't think he needed one. The only saving grace is the bride is a lovely girl - at least he's not marrying one of the ho's he was dating last summer. As he's an adult (in Canada you are an adult at 18), I can't tell him what to do and he's made all of the arrangements himself.

So, the wedding is Saturday. DS does NOT want OW there. DS did invite my friend/date (who isn't some stranger that just popped out of the woodwork but he probably wouldn't have otherwise been invited so all of the dating comments do apply). It's not too late to cancel him and I still don't know what I'll do, but thanks anyways for all of the opinions. I prefer to look at all sides first before making a rash decision.

Tabby1;



Sounds like the logistics of where they will live and how they will both finish school also sound like they will be a problem, especially given neither of them have a car to get back and forth to school or to see each other.

have either one of them really thought about that? they need to be, if he loves his bride I'm sure he wants to provide for her in this way..

Where will they live? Will one of them quit school so that the other can finish and so they can afford to live? Or will one of them transfer schools so that they can be together as husband and wife?



Grrrr..the pastor looking at all of these things can refuse to marry them and suggest they wait a year..


Maybe talk to the gf before the wedding, let her know if she has ANY Doubts or feels pressured into rushing to get married, tell her not to be afraid to postpone the wedding, letting her know you will not be angry or mad or hurt at her for doing so..let your son know the same thing..and yes, it can still be canceled even at the last minute.

Believe me, everyone has tried to talk some sense into these 2. The bride wants to get married just as quickly as he does. Her parents have the same reservations about it but again, they are adults and they have arranged everything themselves. So I can only sit back, watch and be as supportive as possible. I'm not entirely sure I understand how they plan to live. She is off for the summer (DS goes to school all year round) so they have found a townhouse to share with another couple near his school. I think the plan is for her to try and arrange her classes so they are all on 2 or 3 days and she will take the bus to her school and stay with a friend. But I'm not quite sure if that's how it will work. I should also mention that DS works a midnight job (he had the option to live at home and bus to school but he wanted to move out so he pays his living expenses). I'm not sure if he can switch that shift or not but this young girl is getting herself a husband who either won't be home to sleep at night, or will be out all evening (school is in the daytime). In one year, he'll be able to get a regular day job like everyone else. So will she. Believe me, it is frustrating to watch as I've made a lot of these mistakes myself.

I like seeing that TR jumped in on this one.
I had expected someone to ask whether you'd bought the couple a copy of HN/HN. Did you? I buy it as a shower gift. Can you imagine our lives if we'd had the tools early on? Perhaps they can make it, only time can tell, but you can give them some help with MB.

Good luck on this, as you have opened up more than you expected.

We are not here to judge

Im sorry, but that is SO NOT TRUE. Every single STATEMENT that is your OPINION, is a judgement of one kind or another. Theres no getting around that. It may not be very PC and you make be pictured as a close minded oaf, but your judgement MAY be right on. ANd thats ALL that counts.

"youre doing a fine job" is A JUDGEMENT. We are not here to judge usually means "we are not here to judge negatively." ANd that I don't argree with. Sometimes a judgement is negative and sometimes a judgement is positive. If you post a problem and someone gives you an HONEST answer (a judgement) thats all you can ask for. You may not like the answer, but people HAVE A RIGHT to judge when a problem is presented on a public forum. It may not be all fuzzy wuzzy, but what is the reason for this site? To assess (or judge) the situation and make recommendations.

Again. A judgement can be positive or negative. ANd ALMOST noone complains about a positive judgement.

SOmetimes is seems people are more interested in not being the bad guy than they are in giving helpful (though sometimes tough) advise.

exactly!

I tried to put myself in your place and think how I would feel. I didnt have to think long. OW has no right to be there and you being the one that didnt have sex during the marriage can bring a date. To have the OW there might curse the wedding or something. I'm kind of joking about that but you never know. However if your date is a mutual friend or someone he never liked that was interested in you when you were married I might see why he's be upset.

Tabby1;

So how was the wedding? How did things end up playing out?

The wedding took place Saturday without a hitch. Everybody behaved themselves for the day. In fact, I detected a lot more tension between the bride's parents who have been separated since she was a baby. I don't know the story behind it.

The only difficulties I had with WSTBXH were in the days leading up to the wedding. Some of it wasn't even wedding related but the timing matched up. In another case, he had promised DS one of his vehicles to drive to another city to pick up the kilts on Friday since I had to pick people up fromthe airport. At 8:30 am that morning, he called and changed his mind so I had to go rent a car. (he also gave me a big speech about how "they" were screwed if DS wrecked one of their cars even though they both work at the same place and have 2 but somehow my car being wrecked won't hurt me since I commute 70 minutes and only have one vehicle)

He showed up late to the rehearsal but was civilized. I was with my God-daughter who was the MC. We spoke but there were no arguments.

For the wedding itself, I did bring my date. Someone asked - he's known our family for years but it's not like he was waiting in the wings for us to split up - his wife cheated on him a few months before this happened to me so we found ourselves on the same side of the fence through a lot of the crap. He mostly stayed in the background and wasn't in any pictures. Like I said, there was more tension with the bride's parents and trying to do the photo with both sets of parents was a challenge since her dad wouldn't stand close enough to her mom. WSTBX didn't bring OW but did bring her daughter. There was no problem with this, though she did get into a lot of the pictures. Nobody holds anything against her or anything so it was fine.

None of the extended family did or said anything out of place. WSTBX's family hugged me and were friendly. My family was cordial with him, with the exception of my best friend who simply skipped him in the receiving line (he had threatened to punch her in the face the week before). Again, the tension was more obvious with the bride's parents. Her mom actually made a not-so-subtle dig at the dad during her speech.

When it was over, everyone said goodbye and left without incident. The pictures we took are excellent so I can't wait to see the photographer's proofs. It was a beautiful day that DS and his bride can cherish forever.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and advise!

Glad it went well.