Thanks very much for everyone’s opinions and advice.

The least we could do for a long time MB member, and fellow traveler. However, I still wish you didn't have this worry.


Me and my H keep all our finances together and keep a log of all our income/spending. We also have equal access and control to our banking facilities, so I do know there is nothing he hides from me as far as finances, credit cards etc. are concerned. We keep most of our income in a shared account. I’ve also never discovered anything suspicious in the car or in his clothes.

The SMS by it's self COULD be something he might say to an old friend to being back memories. The thing that bothers me is that he denied doing it, and you have it as proof that he did.

The sighting in the coffee shop could be a mistake, but you can't afford to make that judgment yet. I would say that the SMS alone is not a big deal, but the coffee shop situation is very disturbing. It is damming all by it'self. Holding hands with another women would mean an A for sure.

You are a smart gal, and if something is going on, it will come out soon. Please don't talk to him about it for a while. Just watch him closely. Often those in an A will avoid contact for a time after discovery, then resume after a little while when they think you are not watching.

Can you watch him without giving yourself and your fears away?


I just want to mention the niece’s description of the lady in the coffee shop doesn’t fit the appearance of the ex-GF exactly (the lady in the shop had dark brown-red hair and the ex-GF has black hair), but I realize hair color might be the reason for this. My H has a unique appearance that makes the possibility of someone looking just like him very rare, but I guess there might be a possibility that the niece has mistaken him for someone else...I really hope so...

It's hard to know what to say about this. KLD had so many proofs that there was no question what her H was doing. This does not fit your H at all, but then, it seldom does fit. If you want more proof, you will have to wait and watch.


The only thing I can do at this stage is to phone the cell phone company and ask for my H’s cell phone records for the past 6 months or so. I don’t have any access to my H’s work e-mail, so I won’t be able to monitor those e-mails. Is there any way possible to gain access to his work e-mail without him finding out?

Probably not a way that is legal. You could probably check it remotely if you had his password, but that could land you in trouble with his company and the law.

My H is an IT-specialist and work with computers every day, so I don’t know if I will be able to monitor any of his computer activity without him finding out. I also don’t know if my H has any other Internet e-mails except the one we are using together (the one he sent the sms from). My H rarely make use of the Internet card number to send e-mails and text messages from (the one to the ex-GF is the 1st inappropriate one I discovered), so I do think if there’s any more inappropriate stuff going on he will do it from work (Internet/e-mail).

If he is doing it from work, there may not be much you can do. You can watch his time more closely, and look for other signs, but sometimes we tend to create problems where none exist when we have doubts. Coming here and talking about what you see will probably help.

Before I phone the ex-GF, I will first check out the cell phone records to see what I can find out and then take it from there. If I can't find any more text messages and/or phone calls from his cell phone to his ex-GF, does anyone think it might then be a good indiciation that no A is going on?

If there are no more messages, it will be a good indication that there are no more messages. You still won't know for sure.

I am still worried about the SMS and the sighting. You should be too.

Calling the X-GF may not tell you much either. If you use the method mentioned by andrew it will probably give you the best chance of getting information out of her. Think it through carefully before you call, and script what you will say.

How are you otherwise? It's been a while since we have heard from you.

SS

BTW, did you translate that SMS into English? Is there a chance we are not getting the same meaning from it that you got in the orignal?

I'm a FWW and I figured out a way to text the OM's phone from work through my work computer. It became my made mode of communication for a long time. Also, I set up a private yahoo email account so that I could send text messages from home to his phone without getting caught. That's why my dh was so confused, because he didn't see many text messages going out from my phone anymore. We played cat and mouse months before d-day. I just wanted to share that with you because his behavior is awfully suspicious and familiar.

-Mrs Z

Suzet, Just my opinion - but if you are the least bit suspicious, then you should check as many avenues as you can. The sighting with the OW at the coffee shop is very disturbing and I wouldn't dismiss it, though it's probably not quite enough to prove an A if you don't know for sure it was your H. It actually doesn't matter who the woman was - if it was your H, then you've got your hands full.

As for the finances, just being able to see everything that goes on in your joint accounts doesn't mean that he isn't using your marital funds to pay for an A. It means that he's covering his tracks and not being careless. My WH found a way to spend tons of our money on OW - he set up a separate account and got a new credit card that I didn't know about. He got electronic statements for both through an email address I didn't know about. He also got a PO box to get mail that he didn't want me to see. So, just be aware that it's not so difficult to disguise or cover up a paper trail.

I agree that you shouldn't mention this to H at all. I also think that calling the XGF isn't the best idea. I'd only do this as a very last resort. I agree with SS that saying something like Andrew suggested is your best option if you decide to do it and that you should write out a script if you do decide to do it. My fear of doing that at this stage is that you'll tip off your H. The XGF will probably contact him to let him know you called even if they're not involved. That will tip him off if there is an A. At this early point in the game, you definitely don't want that.

Can you hire a PI? This is one of the ways I got the proof I needed about WH's A. You could contact one and line them up for any time H tells you he will be away. Also, I know you know your H's workload and schedule, but is there any chance at all that he takes any afternoons or mornings off without your knowledge? Do you talk to him every day at work? You could also just call a PI and talk to them. They usually will talk to you free of charge and give you some ideas about your situation. A good one will ask questions and tell you what they can do for you. Google PIs in your area and call a few. I talked to three and chose the last one based on how I felt about her and how helpful she was to me.

Your home computer - do you use the same one or does he have his own? Is it a laptop or desktop? One thing some PIs have expertise in is computer forensics. See if one in your area offers this - their website should list it as one of their services. They can take about 4-6 hours and completely find everything that H has done on his computer by going through the hard drive. If you have access to his computer, you could have the PI come to your house during the day after he goes to work and they could have the job done by the end of the day. The other thing you may want to try is to install a keylogger. There's info on how to do this and some tips on it in the spying 101 thread. Your H is an IT guy, so this could be dodgy if it's not done correctly, though.

How are you doing emotionally? I know you don't know anything for sure yet, but even this part is difficult. Be sure you take care of yourself as you go through this. It's hard to remember to do it, and if you find out bad news it will get harder. Please make a big effort to do this - it's one of the most important parts of dealing with infidelity.

the classic "gee i don't remember doing that"
what a line of sh*t.

i have heard that more times than i care to say.
i just wanted to smack my exh and my exbf for saying something so stupid and so blatantly a LIE.

do some checking!

mlhb

Suzet

Can you tell me a scenario where the SMS message and not telling you about it would be OK ?

Can you tell me a scenario where its OK for your H to be in a coffee shop with another woman ?

Didn't think so. It reeks. At least this is IB and secrecy at worst...well you know "at worst"...

He will be very careful about communication now Suzet, so you will need to be very crafty to snoop on him.

SS, I will try my best but I must admit it will be very difficult... My H knows me very, very well. When I feel worried, concerned, angry, sad, emotional etc. (even if I try to hide my feelings), he can immediately tell something is wrong just by looking at the expression on my face (even if I’m not aware my face shows anything) and he will then keep asking what’s wrong until he drags the truth out of me. Unfortunately the same happened yesterday after work and eventually I admitted to him again that I find it difficult to believe his explanations. We had a long talk about it again and at the end of the discussion I said to him I want to believe him and will give him the benefit of the doubt… One of the things my H said to me was: “I love you very much and there is no one else I want to share my life with… Getting involved in an A will risk me losing you and our M, so why on earth would I ever want to do that and risk losing you?” We ended up having a very romantic and passionate night and this morning I actually feel a lot better than yesterday… I still feel worried about the sms and sighting though, but I do want to give my H the benefit of the doubt until I have found more info.

I did make it clear to my H again that I find the SMS totally unacceptable and inappropriate and that he must take extraordinary precautions (just like me) to not have any inappropriate interactions with any person of the opposite sex - even if he might view something he says on sms as “innocent” or “just a joke” (the same way I tried to rationalize my e-mail interactions with XOM back then).

No SS, the SMS was not translated. The ex-GF is an English speaking lady.

I’m fine otherwise SS and everything is going well with both me and my H…thanks for asking! It’s great that our lives have finally “stabilized” after my H’s long unemployment and that’s a big relief to us. My H is very happy at the company he works for now and I’m also still at the same job. There has been sickness in my family for the past year – my father has been diagnosed with cancer but he’s receiving treatment and so far everything is going relatively well with him and the cancer is under control. As far as our infertility issue are concerned - we have not been able to conceive yet, but we’re going to a good infertility doctor again later this year for ICSI-treatment (in-vitro) and will see how things goes. At this stage things are getting worse in my country and recently my H and I have discussed the possibility to immigrate to another country, but that’s a very big decision and the main thing that holds us back at this stage is our parents…especially since they are getting older (and my father’s sickness). My H is also the only child…but we know they will not discourage us from going if we ever make that decision – actually they have encouraged us throughout the years to do that and make a better living for us and our future children (if there will be any).

Thanks for your input MrsZonie… What you’ve said is worrisome… If my H indeed sends (or has send) cell phone messages through the Internet and a private Internet account from his work computer, there is no way I will find it out…and then it means that “clean” cell phone records will not necessarily assure me of anything.

KLD, both me and my H’s salaries are paid into one account and we keep track of all our spending together. If my H uses any of our marital funds without me knowing, I will definitely become aware of it since our income/spending will then not balance at the end of each month. And if some funds suddenly disappear somewhere during the month I will also know since I always know exactly what’s going on in our accounts on a day-to-day basis. My H does have one separate account we use for debit orders, insurance etc. (we transfer the money from our joint account) but I know exactly what’s going on in that account as well. My H is the one paying the bills, doing transactions, transfers etc, but I’m the one keeping log on the computer of all our income/spending and do the “balancing” at the end of each month. Therefore, if my H do use funds that I’m not aware of, it will mean that he have a separate “income” I don’t know about and that’s a very small possibility.

I agree with you on this KLD…that’s why I’m hesitant to call her.

A PI is very expensive and because of the way we are handling our finances, I will not be able to pay for one without my H knowing. But I will google in my area and see if I can talk with one free of charge.

KLD, this is a very rare possibility and yes, we do talk at work almost every day. If I call and my H is busy outside the office, his supervisor usually takes a message and ask my H to call me as soon as he comes in. There has never been a time I was calling my H’s office and discovered from his supervisor that he took the afternoon/morning off without my knowledge. The few time he did took off, it was always for a very good reason and I was aware of it.

We use the same one (desktop) but he also has a separate laptop he uses now and then (mostly from home).

Thanks, I will check it out.

I was very emotional yesterday, but today I’m feeling better (please check out my post to still seeking).

I know KLD… Thanks very much for your concern and help…it means a lot to me. I do hope I will be able to find answers.

I think you are a little overconfident about the money.

Do you see his pay stubs?

The reason I ask is that it is possible to have a direct deposit from your employer sent to more than one account.

He could divert a few hundred dollars into a separate checking or savings account. The rest is deposited into your normal joint account which you see all the time.

For his secret account, he could have the statements sent to his office, to a PO Box, or set to online statements.

This gives him some cash to spend on a cell phone that you don't know about (statements also set to online, sent to office, or another address....) It gives him money to spend on OW that you wouldn't notice.

Same thing with a credit card.

Do you have access to his wallet? Can you at some time look through it for clues?

Also in regard to not missing any work time that you are aware of. Most WS will place a pre-emptive phone call to their spouse before meeting with OP. So he would call you, chit-chat like any normal day...then tell you he has a two hour meeting to run to (groan/complain/etc.) So you'd have no reason to call him.
He has the next few hours of his day clear.

Suzet, trust your gut. Don't talk yourself out of checking this out. There are so many ways around this stuff.
There are so many ways a wayward can be sneaky....

Hi Lexxxy, some answers on the questions you’ve asked:

Yes, I do see my H’s pay slip every month (we keep record of all our pay slips in a file at home) and the same amount that appears on his pay slip is paid into our joint bank account every month.

My H doesn’t carry a wallet with him. If he needs some cash and/or a bank card/credit card, he will carry it on him personally (pocket) or keep it in the car. I do have access to the cars and all his cloths, pockets etc. The only debt we have is our home loan and a small amount on our credit card. If my H does have a secret credit card, then he need to pay if back with money I don’t know of and doesn’t come from our salaries. That’s why I doubt he acts secretive as far as the financial aspect is concerned.

Suzette,

You're in an interesting situation. It's good if you have good tabs on the financial things. Same goes with the cell phone stuff.

Waywards can get careless when they don't think they're being watched. He is probably "on notice" however and is now no longer using his phone to exchange messages with the OW, if there is one.

I sincerely hope this is all a misunderstanding, but it would be tough to believe that someone would mistake seeing him, especially family.

Keep watch. Go through the pockets of his clothes, his car, and other places.

Put a voice recorder in his car. You can get one at Radio Shack and will be able to record him on the phone if he's talking to anyone.

All your snooping could show that nothing is happening, which would be wonderful and you could then rest easy.

But he has slipped up in a big way.

If all of this is nothing more than a mis-understanding then I suggest you get the other books from Dr. H on building an affair proof marriage.

Pomdbd3, the person who said she saw my H at the coffee shop, is not family, but the niece of a good friend of mine. The niece has met me and my H only a few times during the years at my friend's house (my friend's niece is now 18 yrs old). I can’t remember the last time we saw her (the niece). For this reason (and the fact that my friend doesn’t believe my H will act like this) my friend was very skeptical when her niece told her she saw my H at the shop with an OW.

Not to be the voice of gloom and doom, but there is a chance that some OW pays for the A. Maybe she's the one who pays the hotel bills, dinner, etc. Maybe it's not the kind of A where they spend lots of money. If she lives reasonably close, maybe it's just sex at her house when they can. So don't let the fact that you don't have indicators in your finances keep you from checking things out further.

Also, if he ever gets cash for pocket money there's no trail for this. If he gets $20 out for lunch money or vending machine money or whatever, there's no way to really know if he spends it on lunch or snacks at work. $20 may buy a throw away non-traceable cell phone that can be reloaded as needed.

I phoned the cell phone company this morning to request my H’s phone records. They informed me only the contract holder (my H) can request the information...not even me as his W can get the info without his consent. They keep records of outgoing calls and sms’es for the past 6 months. I guess that will be sufficient. Unfortunately they don’t keep log of incoming calls/sms’es. I do want to check out the records, so the only way is to ask my H. I think his reaction might indicate something, especially if he is hesitant and/or try to talk me out of getting the records. Any thoughts on this?

Suzet

Reverse it when you talk to him. This has been a successful tactic with Squid and I..

Say " if you found a text to an ex BF and I gave you the answers you gave me what would you think ? "

If he gets angry and / or defensive he is guilty IME. He knows enough MB to understand how he at least violated your boundary for transparency if nothing else.

Bob, thanks for the suggestion, I will try it.

When I’ve asked my H the other day how he would feel if it was him who had discovered such a secret sms from me to an ex-BF he answered:

“I would have not been happy at all, so I can perfectly understand why you’re upset and suspicious. It bothers me as well why I have sent such a “weird” sms to her and I can’t understand why I have done it.”

When I’ve told him I can’t belief or understand why he can’t remember the sms and have not been transparent with me about it after he has sent it, he said:

“The only reason I can think of was that it wasn’t important to me and meant nothing and that’s probably why I can’t remember it. Probably she sent me a birthday sms on my birthday and that’s why I had her nr at that stage.”

My H’s birthday was a few days before he sent that sms. When I’ve asked him if she did sent a sms on his birthday, he said he can’t remember but that’s the only explanation he can think of. I asked him why would an ex-GF still remember your birthday and he just said: “I don’t know.”

Yesterday I asked my H if he ever felt so resentful toward me because of my past on-line EA with XOM that he ever had thoughts of having an A himself:

He frowned and said “of course not...I know you’ve never done it intentionally”.

i am not buying anything he says.

sorry

btdt too many times.

not buying the "i don't remember" stuff either.

that was a pretty questionable text for him to send for him not to remember it.

keep snooping.

mlhb

Hi Suzet. I'm afraid that I am of a contrary opinion to what has been expressed by many of the respondents to your post. I do NOT think your husband is having an affair.

Obviously the sms from last November is a concern, and I fully understand why it would upset you. But I'm highly suspicious of the sms as being from an "affair" standpoint for a number of reasons. My first inclination was, due to the wording and style, was that it was sent from someone who was intoxicated at the time. If so, "not remembering" is a very real possibility.

I also don't think someone other than your husband sent the sms, unless someone else has access to his phone. So the FACT seems to be that the sms was sent by your husband, who is also (due to his knowledge of IT) NOT stupid enough to try to have an "affair related" communication via something you (and he knows it) have direct access to.



Check his phone. IS her number in there?





Of course you're "paranoid." That's what experience with infidelity does to all of us. We are constantly on the "look out" for signs of a problem. Couple that with your knowledge that your husband did not "have to forgive you and recover your marriage," and it's possible that you may also be harboring a thought that a "revenge affair" might be "possible."

IF he were going to have an affair at this point, it would most likely be an "Exit Affair" type and you would not be getting the type of responses from him that he has been giving you.




"No history of past infidelity from my H" is, as you know, is no "guarantee" that there couldn't be an affair. The same statement was true for you BEFORE your EA. But you DO have to look at the totality of your relationship with your husband. How has your relationship been with him?




Either there IS a secret cell phone that he calls his "normal cell phone," or there isn't. Another reason why I am suspicious of there being any factual affair here.

Is it possible that his company provides him with a "company cell phone?" If yes, why would an IT guy send an sms on a phone YOU have access to? This is not adding up to "affair behavior" by someone who has experience with affair behavior AND who was consciously trying to hide a real affair. If he does not have another cell phone, the reference to "my normal nr" is a dead give-away of a fraudulent sms.




I'm with your friend on this one. This does not sound like "proof," but speculation or misidentification.




One of the things my H said to me was: “I love you very much and there is no one else I want to share my life with… Getting involved in an A will risk me losing you and our M, so why on earth would I ever want to do that and risk losing you?”

He KNOWS the cost of an affair because he's lived through it with you. Not the sort of statement one would hear from someone engaged in an "Exit Affair."




You're afraid that he might do the same to you, aren't you, Suzet?

Let me just give it to you from my perspective (that of being a BS). It's not going to happen. I CHOOSE to not engage in any "marital unfaithfulness" activity. So does your husband. So do all BS's who ARE actively engaged in recovering their marriage and trying to build a newer and better future with their "EX-wayward spouse."

Sounds very much like Satan wants to stir up doubt in your mind.

"Love covers over a multitude of sins."

What is your "gut" telling you and how does it "square" with how your husband has been acting with you?

God bless.

ForeverHers,

Thanks very much for your post…I was hoping you would see this thread and respond.

Before I’ll answer your questions, I just want to report that I did I ask my H during lunch hour today to get his cell phone records and to request the cell-phone company to directly send the records to my e-mail address. M H agreed without hesitation or asking "why" questions.

I have checked it and it is definitely not in there.

Our relationship is good and after 12 years of marriage I know my H is still very much in love with me. The way he always looks at me…the way he treats me…and the way he speaks with me (even after he has discovered my EA) is still that of a man who cares for and respects his W very much…and I’ve never got the feeling that he was acting secretive, suspicious or “wayward” during any time in our M. The sms and sight seeing were the first suspicious incidents and other than that, I’ve always felt my H lives a very transparent life. We have our “ups” and “downs” and arguments from time to time, but nothing major that would indicate unhappy spouses or M that is in danger. We do spend enough time together to fulfill each other’s EN’s…we’re also each others “best friends” as it should be. After all the difficulties we’ve been through during the past few years with my infidelity, my H’s unemployment, stressful court case etc. both of us feel we’ve reached a more “stabilizing” point in our lives and M.

FH, my H only has one personal cell phone, but since he also uses it for business, he receives subsidy from his company every month for his cell phone bill. So the phone he carries on him is used as private and business.

FH, I was never afraid that my H would deliberately cheat on me or have a “revenge A”, but after these two incidents the fear/thoughts has crossed my mind (that’s why I asked my H the question). However, after my EA I’ve become “sensitized” to A’s and always lived with the fear at the back of my mind that the same might happen to my H. I’ve always believed if an A could happen to me, it can happen to anyone… Having an A will just be as out of character for my H as it was for me.

As I’ve said in my first post on this thread, my “gut” and they way my H is reacting towards me tells me he is NOT involved in an A, but the sight seeing incident and sms have triggered the fear of my H having an A.

I’ve thought of the same thing more than once the past few days FH… Satan always wants to “steal” and that’s especially true for destroying marriages…

I think you’ve given this some deep thought and prayer before you’ve responded to my thread FH…am I correct??

God Bless

"Deep thought," yes. Prayer, no.

God doesn't give me a direct answer, what He gives me is wisdom and discernment, regarding other situations.

My prayer is no different than it was originally for you, that God uses your situation to build a marriage that brings Him honor and glory.

Make no mistake about it though. There is "one" who is intend on destroying marriages, especially those that are founded in Christ, to destroy someone's witness and to cause doubt and frustration. I have no doubt that YOU have been praying and surrendering one's fears about their marriage is sometimes difficult. But incidents like the one you are currently dealing with does "bring home" the need to be walking with God and that He is there no matter what circumstances we might be dealing with, waiting for us to turn to Him in trust and obedience.

However, I'll be happy to intercede on your behalf, in that God's will be worked out in, and through, your marriage.



That certainly sounds as if he has nothing to hide and is trying his best to "set your mind at ease." Phone records don't lie, and he knows it.

God bless.