Yup, that's why I don't see how someone in Plan A would apply the rules stated in the original post.

So maybe we should clarify that these boundaries apply to someone who is ready to go to Plan B or divorce - i.e. they have done all they could to show themselves as the better alternative, and are now ready to remove themselves from the situation of pain. If that is the caveat, then I agree <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

But I do see some BS here who are in Plan A, and, as expected, the A doesn't end, and some posters chime in and say that the BS needs to "not tolerate the affair". Well, yeah, duh, as my daughter would say, but how does someone in a Plan A enforce that? I keep looking at Okie's and Physics' threads, and I am at a loss as to what to tell them other than to keep Plan Aing (well, not for Physics, given that his W just snatched the kids...). How do they enforce the boundary if they are in Plan A?

Ya know what I mean?

AGG

AGG - How do you enforce the boundary of "no OP" in Plan A? Repeat after me: You CAN'T enforce this boundary while in Plan A.

So. Again - How do you enforce the boundary of "no OP" in Plan A?

You enforce it by going to Plan B. Plan B IS the enforcement.

But in the meantime, you don't have to just sit back and cater to the affair while in Plan A. And you shouldn't. Part of Plan A is doing what you can to bust it up.

Here is a Notable Post that might help you:

**********************************
"The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A" by Pepperband

THE CARROT OF PLAN A:

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



THE STICK OF PLAN A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Allowing the consequences of adultery and infidelity to fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to affect children of the marriage or the financial security of the marriage, or otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slain for the good of the family.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Josie/Weaver



EGG ZAK LEE

I have MB boundaries for myself. I have thought about certain types of discussions on MB, and I have made my decision when I will not partake. I don't get angry or upset when others make a different decision .... but I do observe what happens ... emotional investment in places where the cost far outweighs the benefit.

And so it is with yelling .... higher cost - low benefit.


Your husband sounds like the perfect man for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Grovetuckyohio wrote this in
his letter to his WW:



and this, my friends, is a boundary in action

and this is a boundary I LOVE......

On D day I said to WH:

"You are out of here."

and I do not make idol threats

H said:

"What will it take to change your mind?"

I said:

"Confess to OW's H in person."

H replied:

"Isn't there something else?"

Me:

"No."

H said:

"OK. I'll do it."

...... and the thing is .... our recovery happened because of boundaries being set , not inspite of boundaries being set.

Agreed. No one should tolerate their spouse dating an OP in a marriage. So this boundary is a great thing to have in a "normal" marriage.

I am talking about situations like EOTS, PhysicsBoy, or others, where the W has one foot out the door (without actually leaving), refuses to stop the affair, and the H tries to Plan A her.

It is good to state the boundaries, but the only way to enforce them would be to go to Plan B or to divorce, from what I can see.

AGG

AGG, what is it you are trying to say?

I cannot tell if you are asking for clarity with a question or if you are making a statement.

help me out

AGG



It is NOT good to state a boundary if there is no intent of action behind it - it makes the BS out to be a liar

Sorry, don't mean to be confusing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

I guess I am both making statements and asking questions:

Question: How does one enforce the stated boundary of "I will remove myself from a cheating spouse", while in Plan A?

Statement: I believe that such enforcement can only be done as part of a Plan B or a divorce.

Now, I completely agree with all the other points about boundaries, not tolerating yelling, and what not. And believe me, like Josie, I will never again Plan A a cheating spouse for more than, oh, an hour, so I am not asking these questions for myself.

Like you said in your last post - "It is NOT good to state a boundary if there is no intent of action behind it" - which implies to me that a BS in a Plan A should not be expressing those boundaries, until s/he is ready to bail. That was my basic point.

AGG

Correct .... Plan A might mean saying:

"Your affair is very damaging to me on a personal human level. I do have limits. I trust myself to know when I have reached my limit."

and self trust is vitally important

so often the BS asks: "How can I trust my WS?" .... and the trust they actually ought to consider is trust of self .... because no decision can be made and stuck to until the BS does trust his/her self

knowing yourself
knowing your limits
knowing your strengths

these things are often discovered here on this board

The anger in many cases is a secondary emotion to fear. Boundaries, used correctly, remove the fear.

Well, it's clear that if you are Plan A-ing the above can't be your current boundary in the exact format in which it is written.

During Plan A the boundary is more ""I will work to recover my marriage for X amount of time, but I will not keep the door to recovery open forever" or using the same thought from above, "I will remove myself from a cheating spouse after X amount of time spent working to save the marriage unsuccessfully."

EGG ZAK LEE

bumping for Amazin and any other BS out there that needs help.

This is the post that turned my sitch around.....thanks again...


not2fun

bringing this up for "alltohard"
Mulan

One thing you must remember about boundaries: If you create one that the other side does not like, be prepared to have your teeth kicked out through the back of your neck. Can you hold fast to your boundary while that is going on? That is why so many of us fail when it comes to a boundary.

I finally set the cold hard boundary that I would NOT go out anywhere with WH - not to movies, not to dinner, not grocery shopping, "not even to the garbage can" - unless and until he put up boundaries around his women at work instead of putting boundaries up around me.

Now, so far he's always had an endless capacity to ignore me and stonewall me when I am upset, and then placates me with fun times and gifts and I fall for it everytime because I think it means he's changed.

It finally got through my thick skull that he had not changed at all - thus the boundary defined above.

So, he got even. Or rather, defeated me utterly. He went on a week-long trip which included first Chicago, and then a visit to Florida with "his" relatives, and then a three-day trade show in Florida as well.

He took his favorite wh*re with him to the trade show - a great big "f**k you" to my boundary.

I had a screaming meltdown when he got back and found out he had done this. That's what landed me in the psych ward for five days. He's using that as his excuse to move out.

My boundary is going to leave me homeless. Will I be strong enough to continue to live behind it? I don't know. But I can surely understand how so many folks back down in the face of such treatment of their boundaries.

Anyone else like to add a boundary story, as it what happened when you tried to enforce yours? It can help all of us understand.
Mulan

I enforced my boundary of not living in a loveless marriage, the consequence of which is separation, followed by divorce. I even defined, to some extent what LOVE was to me (attention, affection, care for one another, honesty and openness). I called my WH and asked him what we were doing, if he was going to do the recovery with me. His response, "I can't do THIS anymore". My response, "Then it's time we separated"

My living situation is not solid; I have no idea where I'll be in a year. Financially, it will be tough. I am a single mom, for all intents and purposes, with a young boy who needs me now more than ever, and I hope he turns out okay, despite my decisions. I am tired all the time, and always have work to do. I feel lonely on and off. I worry more. I sometimes feel overwhelmed. I do miss the financial stability that I had when WH was home (even though I always wondered when the bottom would drop out). I constantly felt like I was living in a world of uncertainty.

The up side is that I no longer live day to day feeling so lousy. I feel really good. My fear of the future is subsiding, as I recognize that I really only need worry over today. I have a great job, good friends, family that loves me, a wonderful boy, two dogs, a cat, a fish, and ME. I have ME. I have a nice car; I suppose I could live in IT if I had to. Kidding. I have enough money to get an apartment if I must, and live well.

Having healthy boundaries doesn't always mean that it's EASY. Intially, there are pains from change, but once change begins to occur, and acceptance begins, it GETS easier.

The boundary I enforced is life altering. Not all boundaries will be as such.

keeping this up for alltohard, and anyone else -
Mulan