I just seriously doubt that the OWH would attack you or your small children to retaliate for his W's adultery. I guess conceivably, it could happen; a falling comet could strike your house tonight, but odds are probably about 1 in 100 million.

Your H is being a coward by playing on your worst fears to keep you quiet. This is the reason a wayward should never be warned before exposure hits.

Actually, we are friends outside of here. We bonded due to the similarities in our situations and have chosen to speak directly as 'friendly acquaintances' by circumstance. I have nothing to hide except that I'm embarrassed that our situations are so similar. I feel sadness for Turk, as I do some days for myself. Our hubbies and their situations are eerily similar so we are able to lend support. Sorry if I offended.

Thanks to all for the insight and advice. I am still considering the subject of exposure to OWH. I really don't know enough about him to decide if there is s real threat. Hopefully not. Probably not. There are times in dealing with the A that I have felt absolutely murderous rage. And while I'll admit to being irritated, angry and downright mad as H in the past. This is the only subject that brings about that intense emotional reaction. When H asked what would help the other day, I believe my response was if I "could wipe that stupid b**** right off the face of the earth". I wouldn't actually do it. I'm a better person and I'd think of the effect it would have on my family and even hers. If that is the response from a usually non violent person, I'm not sure I want to see the response of someone who is. Now if I would find out the A has reignited or she contacted H, I have my letter ready to go to OWH, his parents, her boss, her coworkers and everyone in my H's contact list. And my H knows I'd do it in a second and told her as much when I discovered the A. I can assume that if she would contact him again, there is no real risk of violence.
I'm saying it that way because I also choose to believe the NC letter I emailed is for real. I am aware that I could be wrong and they could have faked it. However he put in some very unflatterring remarks that I don't think he could explain away by saying his wife made him.
Also choosing to believe (still not entirely convinced myself, but choosing to believe unless I'm presented with contrary evidence) that it did not progress to a PA. Only because in the very slowly extracted info from H, we did go through the "nothing like that; I would never; well, we talked about sex, but only generally; Ok, we did have more detailed conversations; she suggested and I said I wanted to"... all the way up to the final version that included making plans and when they were going to and his final admission that it would have been physical if I hadn't discovered it when I did. I believe that that is most likely true because she would have had to make an 8 hour drive here overnight or very early in the AM, find child care for her son(he normally stayed with her in-laws), and explain the absence to her H. My H had enough unaccounted for time that he could have met her where we live, but not that he could have travelled.So it isn't an impossibility, but it's unlikely. The other side of that is that I assumed it was physical when I discovered the A and that was part of what I was willing to forgive and work through. I have said the whole time that I personally would have handled the PA better than an EA, yet he has admitted to the things I never expected about the EA and (not very well a lot of the time) has been willing to try to work through it, so why continue to lie about what I considered less offensive (not trying to minimize a PA. That is absolutely horrible and I didn't say it wouldn't be very hard to deal with, I'm just saying which was worse for me)
I still needed that NC for my peace of mind until he leaves his current job.I still don't understand his objection. He says he was afraid it would prompt her to contact him or me and he didn't want to deal with it. Since his avoidance of conflict is a big part of the reason we got here, it isn't unbelieveable. He has found two good job possibilities already that would not deal with her company at all. So I'm remaining vigilant, but I'm not ready to go worst case scenario yet. As was said, "what's the worst that could happen? I'll be ok whether it's because the marriage recovers or because I learn an unpleasant truth and go on.

Turk,

I am saying this as respectfully as I can.

You are CHOOSING to stick your head in the sand and PRETEND....

I know all of this because I did it......you have a OW that works with your H, lives close by, and you honestly believe all his BS (and I don't mean betrayed spouse...).

Honey, I had all the same crap go on with the COW in our sitch living 1000's of miles away. So what if what he wrote was harsh. The second NC letter she wrote was filled with harsh stuff. I had him wait for us to read it together. He cried at it....YET found out LATER that they had talked just minutes after it went out. He knew it was coming, he knew the reason why (the other couples counselor had her do this...), yet it still hurt him, CRUSHED him, yet they still talked......

I hope I am wrong on this, but I am willing to bet the farm I am not......

To me I see your WS spewing nothing but fog-speak and grasping at all straws to keep this going.....anything to CONFUSE you....

not2fun


PS....and by not telling her H, you are becoming their ACCOMPLACE (SP).....does it sit well with your inner self and morals to keep this VITAL information from someone who deserves to know what is going on in his life??? Would you want him to tell you if roles were reversed????

I know I am being harsh, but honey, do not bring yourself down to their level....I IMPLORE you

Not2,
I do appreciate and consider your points. I realize you are speaking from your experience as I am speaking from mine. We all gain by sharing whether it is through advice, insight or support.While I appreciate the first two and believe they let me look at my own situation more clearly and objectively, right now I could use the third(support). My goal is to rebuild my marriage. While I fully intend to question, check and recheck anything that makes me the least bit suspicious,I don't intend to attack my H at every turn. Especially when he does make the effort to do what I've asked of him. Granted, had he done it on his own or more willingly, I'd feel better about it. Am I over my suspicions entirely? No. But I think much of that is what has happened, not what is happenning and I'm more interested in going forward than punishing past mistakes.It is very hard to convey all of the nuances of relationships through these forums.
As for OWH, I am still considering that. I will always have the option to expose. While sooner may have been better it is important to me to evaluate the effect it could have on both of our families before I take any action. I will continue to think about what you've said.
How are things with your H now? I'm hoping you're both well.

I am just curious. Is the reason you haven't exposed to OWH b/c you are using that as leverage to keep OW away from H?

What did your NC letter say?

There are multiple reasons for not exposing immediately. Of course I knew nothing of MB on D-day. I also did not know the extent of their betrayal. Talking too much to a work contact, while still over the line, was not necessarily adultery. What they did was (even if there wasn't a PA), but I didn't know then. What I knew was that there was another woman I didn't know existed spending hours talking with my H and that he preferred her company to mine. My immediate concern wasn't her H. My H used exposing the A to OWH as a threat at that time to stop her from contacting him because she objected when he told her he couldn't speak with her anymore. My H still believes that it's leverage against her to threaten exposure. I'm not withholding the info from OWH for that reason, but I'm not above using that threat on her if it works. They have a young child also and I don't want to expose this much later if there's a chance she's been "scared straight" I realize probably not, but getting caught does occasionally have that effect. If the A is over and their marriage and family are still intact, I'm not sure what is to be gained. I would feel wonderful for a little while about putting her through some of the he** I go through, but not so great about putting OWH through it. Would I want to know? During - yes. If there was still contact- absolutely. A year and a half later? Maybe not. Again something to consider. There is also a strong possibility my H and OW would lose their jobs. In both cases, they are necessary to support the families. My H was willing to expose to both employers immediately after and I was the one who stopped him as long as there were conditions put in place that he would never be exposed to her in any way. I'm still undecided.
as for the NC letter I'll copy it to this page.I only removed names. Everything was written by H and approved by me.

OW,

I’m sending this letter so you know how important it is that you never contact me again. I love my wife very much and will do anything to save my marriage. I was wrong about everything I ever said about her and I only want to be with her. I need to make sure that you know I would never want to be with you under any circumstance.
I have terribly hurt and disrespected my wife. I only hope she will give me the chance to show her that I love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her. I should have never accepted or used your cell phone number. We should have never spent as much time talking or talked about our spouses to each other the way we did. We were horribly disrespectful to them both. I was wrong to think you are a good person. Good people do not have affairs or pursue another person’s spouse. I was wrong about you and how I said I felt about you. I want someone who is smart that can have an intelligent conversation. I want someone with similar interests, views and opinions. I want someone my age that is mature that has had some real life experience. I want someone that is a good parent and not a spoiled brat themselves. I want someone that their priority in life is their spouse and family, not getting everything they want and doing whatever makes them feel good no matter who gets hurt. You are none of these things and I want nothing to do with you. My wife is all of these things and much more and I hope she will forgive me.
I will not be contacting you again. If you attempt to contact me or even reply to this my wife will contact your husband.

H

I really do value the input I recieve here and appreciate the concern and support. Thanks to all

Turksmom, I think you need to be honest with yourself. I think this is the main reason that you haven't exposed to OWH...that you are using exposure as leverage or as a way to "blackmail" your OW.

I think that you will eventually feel guilty for using this approach, for keeping this information from OWH to your own advantage... Not to mention exposure to OWH is one of the BEST way to keep the A from continuing.

I hope others will chime in here.

Definitely consider calling the Harleys. Good luck.

Done with thread and MB. Since joining this site it has gone from helpful and supportive to judgemental and antagonistic.(not specifically targeting BP here, so please don't read that way) Probably not Harley's intent.
I know my reasons and intentions. I am a smart, capable woman who is able to make decisions and judgements on her own. I am being honest with myself. H is the one who considers it leverage not to tell OWH. I asked him to send the NC letter this much later because if the threat of discovery didn't prevent her from doing it the first time, I don't think it would prevent her from contacting again. I told him when he wrote the letter that I am still undecided about exposing.
Sharing similar stories, knowing you're not alone, having others to use as a sounding board are all very positive aspects of MB. While situations may be similar and characteristics and patterns of affairs are predictible, no two situations or individuals are the same.I'm interested in defending my marriage. I'm not interested in defending my decisions, my H, or myself on this website.

I am a little surprised that you expected posters to be ONLY supportive when...
a) there is contact between your H and OW.
(I think the view being that MB principles tend not to do much good when there is still contact going on between the affair partners no matter how minimal.)
b) not telling OP's spouse about the affair and using that as a threat in your NC letter.

My comments and questions were not designed to upset you but to see if you can't be persuaded that this is a very bad idea...not only as a moral issue but b/c exposure is probably the best MB advice you can be given right now...IMO...

I don't think the other posters were being judgemental or antaganostic. I think Not in particular has been in your situation and is trying to prevent you from going through the pain of false recovery as she did.

Sorry that you haven't received the support that you were looking for here. I sure hope that the red flags posters pointed out to you turn out to be false and that you are a good path to recovery. Good luck.

One last post. I thought this might help you:

This is from Mimi. She is not judgemental or antagnostic in my opinion. Look at the length of time she has been here and how she has recovered her M... Good luck.

No advise or judgments, here just a few (ok several)comments :

1) There is no reason to throw out MB along with this therad. You can be done with this thread but still go on with MB

2) The INTENT of the posters here is to help you with the RECOVERY of your marriage. They each have their own communication style and way of trying to get thru the BS or WS fog to get the messages of Marriage Building accross.

3) If you do not like the advise of a particular poster you can always put them on ignore.


Then dont attempt to defend your self , Just take the input you get and allow it to process in your system. No one is happy when the incoming message is not what we want or expect. Dont feel like you have to defend your actions or positions . You have a right to do what you want and how to fight for your marriage. If you are here then I am assuming you are looking for some sort of guidance from those who have BTDT and that is what you are getting.

I am sorry you feel like you are getting more advise (espically messages you dont want to hear thru your pain) than support.

I for one feel sad and sorry that you (and me for that matter) are BS's at all and have to put up with this crappy and difficult recovery process. But if we make the choice to save our marriage now that we are BS's I am discovering that there is no Easy Happy Quick way to do it.
So I wish you success and hope you find happiness and healing for yourself and your marriage which ever way you choose to find it.

[quote=Turksmom] Since joining this site it has gone from helpful and supportive to judgemental and antagonistic[quote]


Turk,

I see that you are angry. That in itself is a good thing. Now, if you just re-direct that anger to where it needs to be, it would do a lot of good for you and your Marriage.

Judgemental and antagonistic???

I can see where you think that, but I and other do that so that you can see what we see. There was a poster who was very judgemental and antagonistic in my thread. She would push and prod, scream and holler, and do everything in her power to raise my ir. I cannot tell you how many times she made me angry. Don't believe me?? My sis who lurked on here felt the same way towards her. She thought "How dare she come down so hard on my sister??"

BUT, I will tell you this, she was the poster who got me into ACTION. She didn't pat me on the head and tell "me everything will be okay", she didn't hug me when WS was being a butthole (and there were times he was HORRIBLE...), no, she wanted me to find out the TRUTH....because that is what we BS NEED.

And you know what??? She was RIGHT.....and it was because of her, that she helped ME find my courage and inner strength to face WS and his A and stand up for MYSELF......

And to this day she is my GREATEST supporter and ally. And you know what??? She STILL kicks my butt when it is needed.....(and I often do...)

So, when I see what you tell us, and I see where your road is leading you, then YES, I will tell you what is going to happen. Honestly, I hope to he77 I am wrong, but unfortunately, these situations are all too much the same around here......and if my being antagonistic keeps you from suffering as I did, then I will have done my job......

Hopefully, you change your mind and stick around. I know for me that if I had up and left each time someone made me mad, my WS would STILL be in his affair and WE would NOT be in Recovery........

not2fun

ps...BP, thanks for the support there. I do feel for Turk, but her WS is making me mad...

EDITED....

pss..The poster who I referring to is MIMI....she doesn't play around. With affairs, you just can't do that.....

EXACTLY!!! Great post, Not!

To give you an idea of why I so adamantly agree with the Harleys that there must be NC at all costs: I have two family members whose WSs have been embroiled in LTAs. Despite the fact that other family members have tried to tell the BSs what is going on, they are in deep denial and have allowed minimal contact with their OPs to continue. I also have a friend who is getting divorced now b/c she allowed contact to continue. There is such as a thing as BS fog... Good luck.