ezb

We share the same emotions and thoughts my friend. Hindsight is so clear isn't it? I'm sorry that your situation has gone as far as it has. To tell you the truth, mine may have gone to separation if our living situation overseas didn't make it so difficult. I actually count that as a blessing because she has told me that, had we been in the states, she would've moved out. I take that two ways however, either she's just waiting for the move to be easier on her, or she is just talking and she really doesn't feel that separating from me is what she wants to do. There's no way I can know, I've told her I'd move out, she says no, she's asked if I want her to move out, of course I say no. So here we are.

In the end, there is nothing we can do to control anyone. It sucks, I know your pain, I hate how I feel everyday. I hate that things have come to this. It's getting a tiny bit better each day though. I'll never really know how she is feeling or thinking. If I listen to what she tells me and how she acts, then I really feel we have a chance. If I let myself "predict" the future, I can talk myself into all kinds of ugly stuff. We are programmed like that, now that we have seen such pain for so long. In the past we manufactured our own "happiness" by neglecting our loved one and being selfish for ourselves. Now that the bubble has burst, we manufacture our own "hell". In the end, we have no idea what is going to happen.

I don't know what will become of my wife and our marriage. The only thing that I know for sure, is that I will never again be that man. The man that caused that pain, the man that broke my promise of love and protection. That is the one thing I know, without a doubt. I will demonstrate this to her while I have her here. What she chooses to do after that is entirely up to her. It sucks but that's the bare truth. I blew my chance before and this is my price, our price. I think I know my wife, I really believe she will see me through the fog and know that our relationship is worth saving. That is the only thing you can hope for also. Ezb, it's hard to do and I'm not even close to being right in the head, but I'm getting better everyday. I'm actually talking myself into letting her go so that I can get her back. I squeezed and held on to her for so long, she finally slipped out and away. But I can still see her, and she isn't running away yet. She can still see me, and what she sees is what will make her decide to come back or keep going. It all sounds so easy don't it? It's not, not easy at all. I have a constant ache in my gut, may have an ulcer, I don't know. But I've decided that there is a price to pay for happiness and I will pay it. I will continue to pay until she tells me otherwise. She fought for us in the past without me, now it's my turn to fight for us without her. Sooner or later (my hope) we will fight together and nothing will stop us.

Stay strong, be the good man, be the rock. She has to be hurting too. If you guys had the relationship you say you did, she isn't going through this without pain either. She too is looking for a lighthouse in the storm. Be that light, show her that you are the safe place to be. It will be hard, but what else do you have. Smile, tell her you love her, let her know you are there. You were the safe place once, she needs to know you are the safe place again. For now, everything you do to hurt her will be magnified 100X. Don't do it. Don't disrespect or judge her about anything. Smile and understand. Now is not the time to argue or blame, those are things to be worked out after you become friends again and talk about them as friends. Iv'e said enough. I feel a bit hypocritcal telling you these things because I struggle to do the same things myself. But I'm better than I was 3 months ago, alot better and you can be too.

I'll be looking out for you

Dino my friend you are so right. She fought for us for so long and all I could do was hurt her. It is both our turns to sacrifice and hurt. I have so much more knowledge now and I need to hone it and put it all into practice. I did at one time and I can do it again and I think she understands more too on the few things that I felt were wrong. I confused her so much by saying things I didn't mean and saying things without really knowing myself what I was saying. Think before you speak bud. Think of how she will percieve it and how it will make her feel and ask her after how she feels about what you said. It can make the world of difference in understanding and comprehending. My mind is so clouded now with so many things but one thing is clear, I will win thelove of my wife back and our marriage will be so much stronger then it was before.
I know she hurts too and it takes everything she has to hide from that pain because it's so great. I have no refuge and I won't seek one just for the fact that it will not do whats left of our marriage any good. I need to be this way right now to learn and to prove things to her and she will see that it will stay that way now.
Be strong also my friend and lets fight for our marriages and all 4 of us will come out on top of the world.

I failed to mention a big positive. At counseling this week we set up 2 nights a week to talk about our past and probably some present problems. one of our issues was not listening or hearing or understanding what the other was saying (mostly all on my end). During the sessions we can each come with issues and we'll use a talking stick. Whoever has that stick is the only one that can speak unless there needs to be clarification on something that was said because of not understanding then the other may raise their hand and ask when acknowledged. During both meetings each person gets to speak about the things they brought to the table. This is a big leap for us and one that will definately help me in not constantly bombarding her with questions and the issues at other times so we can just enjoy times spent together. Might be of help to you also Dino, it gives me something to look forward to in helping to heal our past and fix the future.

I guess I'm more using this thread to express my feelings and the situation. It seems to have really been helping me inbetween looking around the site. I've actually made it thru today and have been hurting because I can't tell her I love her but I do and hopefully she realizes that. I think I've decided to just send her the poem I wrote in the morning and wish her a happy day. We'll see how things go from there but I have to remain positive and faithful and do all I can.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html

This article helped me realize a lot tonight also. I'm glad she encouraged me to come to this site ..... I only wish I had sooner but I will keep working hard.

Believer thank you for that article I try to read it daily. Here was another good one on there:

Where were you when I needed you.

Although I usually write about things you can do to keep a marriage on track, this article contains a tip of what to avoid doing. I have seen this pattern so often in couples attending a two-day intensive with me that I want to get the word out- “Don’t do this!”

What I’ve heard a lot from spouses considering leaving their marriages is, “Where were you when I needed you?” Women often ask this question of their husbands when, in the past, they have had some kind of health issue and felt their husbands weren’t supportive. They had frightening diagnoses or surgery and felt very much alone because their partners weren’t by their sides or weren’t involved in negotiating through the medical world to find the best treatment or to demand better treatment when things went awry. Getting sick or requiring medical attention is one time that we become very much aware that in illness no one feels what we feel physically or emotionally. But- and this is a but- this existential loneliness can be made better by having loved ones who are nurturing and who plant themselves near you to hold your hand emotionally and if needed, physically. When this doesn’t happen, when one’s spouse doesn’t seem to “get” the significance of what’s happening, the hurt, anger and resentment are often monumental.

Keep in mind, health issues aren’t the only reason a spouse may wonder, “Where were you when I needed you?” The importance of “getting it” is also essential when it comes to other life-altering events such as the death of a parent or other loved ones, a miscarriage or any major disappointment.

Having said all this, the truth is, sometimes it’s hard to know when you are letting your spouse down. Too many people expect others to be mind readers and say nothing when they need more emotional support. Rather than risk asking for what they need, they keep their thoughts to themselves and feel abandoned and hold grudges. Unfortunately, many people are excellent grudgeholders; they can do it for years.

If you are someone who has mistakenly been oblivious to your spouse’s needs in the past, don’t beat yourself up for it. We can’t change the past. But one thing is for sure. You can certainly make better decisions about your future. You need to pay close attention to what is important to your spouse. Even if you think you wouldn’t require similar support, that’s irrelevant. It’s what your spouse thinks and feels that matters. You have to show your love and caring when your spouse needs you, not when you feel like it. When you do, you will insure that the answer to the question, “Where were you when I needed you,?” will be, “Right by your side.”

ezb
You have something positive going for you too. She's at least going to MC with you. My wife isn't ready to do that yet but I've been going on my own. I think my wife is just so strong headed that she feels she can do it without help. Like I said, I'll work on my own, for myself and us. I'm grateful for what we still have, hoping on growing more. We have alot of work ahead of us brother, I'll be here to help. Don't you wish they could just see into our minds and hearts and feel the determination we have, feel the intense love we have so they could let us back in? But you know, we built that wall, not by ourselves, they helped too, they don't get off the hook. But someone has to tear it back down and it seems that we're the ones who are going to start. Hopefully one day, we'll turn and they'll be there standing next to us pulling down their share of bricks. If not, we can only hope that once the wall is gone, they are still there on the other side waiting. If not, the wall will still be gone and we'll be free, not necessarily happy about it, but free none-the-less. Free from all the barriers we built around us, free to really be happy with ourselves. Again easier said than done.

Dino
Stay strong and she will be my friend. My love had wanted to go for so long and I was blind and stupid to the fact I thought we could do it on our own. We could have if I would have listened to her and come here sooner to read the articles and listened or at least that would have made me see that counseling would have helped even more. I see so much now and in such a different light. I thinkk she knows I do but now needs to know it will stay that way so she can open back up and know I won't turn my back on her like I did before. There's a lot of little things that need to be changed and shes starting to help with that now. I want and need her help but she was afraid before and I understand why now. I believe shes doing this for us and to help to tear down that wall. I have to believe that in order to rebuild our love again. I have to put the thought out of my head that she might be doing that to just help me for future relationships like she said weeks ago. Thats one thing I have learned, if you say something that you don't mean you have to change that, you have to have the compassion to voice and make that change or it will be believed because it was said. There were so many things I said that I didn't mean ...... if only I could take them all out of her mind. I know I can't magically but I can with letting her know and telling her my real feelings. I said a lot of things in order to change her and get my feelings across, instead I should of talked to her out of love and not anger. If only i had seen the light sooner, I didn't but I do now and I have to prove that fact to her. Something to prove, it and my love for her will drive me and I hope I can stay strong enough to win her love back.

Dino
I know what will help me change for good. I'm going to save these threads and the articles and the emails my lovely wife sends me to help and to save her feelings she shares with me and no matter what our state of marriage later on I plan on reviewing them to keep things fresh in my mind and to solidify the change till I know it's there for good. I'm still married and it's because my lovely and caring wife has stuck by side hoping change would come even though she was being hurt the whole time by my blindness and selfishness .... hoping I would see the light. Well I have seen the light now and it's my turn to hurt and to stick by her side and hope she sees the light that the man she fell in love with is here for her now .... waiting and hoping everyday she can help me more to change so that we can save our marriage and bring back love stronger then ever before.
I know one thing is for sure Dino, if your like me you can't stop thinking about it every minute of every day. I use to be addicted to other sites but now I'm addicted to this one and divorcebusters.com. I have to be to solidify the change while there's still a chance. If there's still a chance to tear down that wall I built.

Well I sent her a poem and another email this morning. How do I fight myself from not contacting her? How do I stop myself? I'm so starved for communication from her and it hurts because I had the chance to communicate before and I did it in so many messed up ways and communicated thinks I thought were true but it was just anger. No more angery communication only loving. Communication now from me to her will only be with love and caring. I want to hear all her feelings, I want to understand how to show her I care about them and respect them. Why did I not know how to do that before? Probably because I didn't know how to listen to her. Always thinking instead defensively and what my response would be instead of listening and asking questions. I can see that now and I want her to know that so bad so I can start practicing when we communicate. So I can change it and show her it will stay that way because I love her and want to rebuild what we had and make it even better. I don't want her to feel like I'm just trying to control and I don't know how to help change the way I do it so she doesn't feel it's that way. I have anxiety attacks in my opinion. Where my adrenaline gets pumping so fast because I'm starved for communication from her and with her. That is the connection my heart and mind have with her, that is how deep it is. But it makes her feel like I'm being controlling of her space. How do you mix those feelings and both understand each other but yet satisfy needs? I'm listening to the steps shes taking for a positive direction in rebuilding things, I see shes starting to want to work on it with me but not an hour goes by that I don't need that reassurance again. Not an hour goes by that I don't need to know that what I'm doing is making a difference. I have to take notes I guess and carry them with me, I have to save emails and texts when she says something positive or moves in a positive direction. It's still hard though because there have been things she said she would get together and talk to me about but hasn't. I felt I had to force the twice weekly meetings to talk things over but she feels I didn't give her time to think about it. I have to trust her I guess because if I don't it's doomed. If I do and she doesn't really want our marriage anymore after all then I guess I deserve it and the pain for what I put her thru. I never meant to hurt her it was a lack of understanding for things, understanding I have now and want to put into motion. Please my love reach out to me and you will not regret it. You will not be hurt and I will never turn my back on you again. Something so special should not be totally lost without trying everything both together.

Well we're emailing this morning and communicating. I don't think this is crowding her by the things she is saying and I hope it's not how it's making her feel. I just want to win her love back again and I feel I can do that and make great strides. It helps me immensly that she is receptive and shows me in ways that what I'm doing is really making a difference. That in itself drives me to do more and learn more because it makes me feel we are working together.

I think I have been feeling what she felt. I'm so starved for contact and communication with her and for so long she too was starved for communication and contact from me even though we lived together. Instead though I took things away even more. I'm so sorry I hurt her like that and I know I can't change that past but I can heal it by realizing and listening to her feelings on it so I can better understand what to do next time to make her happy again. I can only hope that mistake is learned from. I know I learned from it and I hope and pray she doesn't do the same right now and pull away more.

Does anyone have a planned method for reviewing and drilling things in reguarding mistakes made in communication, conflict, etc.?

I'm soaking up so much information right now I need a secure way to sort them out and review them so I can get things right all the time and stop making stupid comments and/or moving onto something else before I have actually put into practice and been successful at the previous subject?

I have a method I've been tweeking but it obviously isn't working right for me. I keep making negative comments or other stupid things I do and I need to rid myself of this to only be positive.


Also how do you deal with it and correct it let alone bring it up when your WAW commits one of the most important Love Busters there is and she has been the one to state these are things to avoid and has forever felt so strong about Love Busters and Love Banks to begin with?

So you know what her Love Busters are right now at this point in time since she has left? Those are the ones I would probably try to find out and work on not doing them also. Or at least find out what things at this point are going to help start filling her love bank again.

I know some yes but still do need a full plan to implement for myself to remember, review and learn. But how em I suppose to believe in Banks and Busters myself when she is not fully practicing them? Dishonesty is a major Buster to overcome and even more so in this situation.

If you have not been filling her Love Bank for so long as you say you have not been then IMHO you should be doing them to feel her love bank in order for her to want to even think about working on yours again. Since you have said she had been working on the marriage even when you were not then it must be your turn to work on it.

It is my turn to work on it but it's also our turn because we have never both worked on it at the same time which is what it takes to heal and make a marriage work. How can I believe in something as strong as she has claimed she does if she will not practice it herself?

Last night she didn't even sound ashamed she flat out lied to me.

From what you have said though is that she was working on it when you were not. How do you know that she is not working on it the only way she can right now if from what you have said is she can not open herself up to the hurt you have caused her. Maybe she is working on it in a different way that is best for her. Maybe she also needs you to work on it way more then her at this time since it sounds as if from what you have said as you have caused her so much pain in this marriage when she stood by your side.

How has she lied to you?

I know she needs to work on it differently then me but love busting is not the answer. I don't feel she should be filling my love bank like I'am hers right now but love busting is a different story.

She told me we were exclusive during this time and I found out she asked one of my former co-workers if he wanted to have nsa.

ezb
Right now, you can't worry about what she's doing. I know it's hard, I'm living it everyday. But you will dig your own grave if you're worried about what she's doing. You have to be strong, remember what I told you before. This wall is for us to tear down. She isn't in the frame of mind to help, as much as you'd like her to, she is not there yet. We won't know if she'll ever be there but you have to do your thing. Don't base what you do on what she does, it will drive you crazy. That whole memtality is what has gotten us into this situation in the first place. Our women have lost their trust in us, right now they believe that being away from us is the only way they can be happy again. You have to make her feel that with you is the safe place. If you continue to base your actions on how she is acting toward you, you will only prolong the pain brother. I really believe that I'm doing good and seeing some change. I won't know whether she's let me back in until she's tells me so. Until then, I will be the good man, either she'll see it and come back or she won't. Either way, it's a decision she makes. Our job is to make the decision to walk away a hard one. If we act like asses, the decision to walk will be easy.

I hear ya Dino. I haven't expressed many feelings I think should be respected and really all I have asked for is no further damage. There's beeen some positive steps by her that have made my efforts go even further though. Lies and deceit purposefully do not have a place in this though. It goes against all we stood for and who we are and who we're trying to be again. I never meant to purposefully lie to her. When that happens there's 10 bricks put up for every one thats tore down. I know she feels I lied about who I'am or what type of person I'am. I didn't though and I think I've been proving that so far and will. I changed is what I did and stopped caring and working on the marriage and when men do that the divorce rate is near 100%. That wasn't me or the type of person I'am. I don't blame her but she also realizes there were things she could have done that she didn't try and thats why she is changing the divorce status to just a separation, that and she sees my efforts. I'm happy for that and do feel fortunate.
We talked for 3 hrs last night on the phone. I hope some positive came out of it and I hope we can make some head way and spend some time together over the holiday weekend. I asked to spend it together doing something we both loved or just whatever she feels like is fine. No expectations just a relaxed time going to see lighthouses like we use to.
I've been doing a lot of listening and taking steps and putting a plan together to make sure what happened does not happen again. I'm still learning during that how to go about it and whats the best way for me to solidify the change to who I really am but I believe in what I'm doing and I believe it will work. She doesn't believe in that though. Can't blame her really. She feels being loving and affectionate is not the type of person I'am. I told her that when I was angry once and now I've learned when your angry you walk away and don't say a word. You ask for a timeout. You need to cool down.
I asked again about being exclusive and I in no way felt secured by her answer. Guess I have to live with that and respect her feelings and hope she respects mine.
Todays the second day of no contact so I guess I'll use it wisely and gather my thoughts and solidify and figure out my position and where things stand along with continuing to figure out my plan and course of action to going back to who I really am and what I stand for. I know we both want the same thing and thats a happy marriage. I know we can build that because when we're both doing right thats what we have had and can have again. We'll see if that chance is still there to do that.