This is my own thread concerning an incident that MrsZonie
posted here . Mrs Z lied to me about several things after the A was revealed. I almost left her over that one. Afterwards I asked if there was anything else I should know. She told me a few details that I dealt with and filed away. After a good weekend together, I had a trigger and for some reason asked if he had taken any pictures of her. Her answer was Yes, that they had taken some very, very explicit sexual photos together in his office AND at his house(Your imagination is most likely correct). Apparently she felt that she didn’t have to volunteer that little tidbit unless I asked.

I called her careless and stupid for doing that and even called her a slut. I realized that I had nothing but LoveBusters in me and she should go eat the dinner I made and leave me in peace at that point. OM had just been sent a NC letter. What’s his state of mind? Was I going to see these pics posted to my company email directory, on Myspace, or mailed to me?! Did she let him take these pics thinking they would share a walk down sexual memory lane later on? When do I get to decide what I need to know? I asked her to tell me these things already and to this day she lets them dribble out slowly, torturing me all the while. I just don’t know how to get her to tell me what I need to know. Even when I ask, I don’t get these details.

Apparently she feels that my reaction was abusive and now I’m suffering that as well. My friend thinks I’m a better man than him for trying to make this work, but at times like this I just want to give up. How did all you BS deal with the slow trickle of details that apparently won’t be shared voluntarily until asked? I know there are more things I want to know, but don’t know to ask them…yet. I’ll just go through all of this again when I realize a question a month from now and get the answer.

Well, Zonie, I never got any details at all from my husband, and now I'm divorced. He refused to give me any information or answer any quesitons. In fact, the one digusting thing I DID find out was from the OW's husband - that the infidels never used any protection. My ex swore to me that they DID.

So at least she is telling you the truth. But I'm with YOU, what a stupid thing to do. Now the photos live on and on, could show up anywhere, can be savored by the OM or shared with who knows whom. It turns my stomach.

But I think you know that you shouldn't call her names, even though I know how it felt, and I called my ex a few choice ones, and the OW too.

You might take some time and write down everything you can think of to ask - that is if you REALLY think you want to know. Then give her the list and have her answer. But you STILL may think of things later, and that is your perogative.

Zone, what you are experiencing is the backlash of withholding, an extreme form of mental torture. When a WS withholds information and admits only direct questions, it puts you in a perpetual D-day when the wound is ripped open over and over again. This little game is usually practiced by a WS who tries to save herself by glossing over or leaving out huge pieces of the puzzle. Unfortunately, that behavior makes it virtually impossible for you to recover because you can NEVER get the CONTEXT, the full picture. And you need to full picture to move forward.

It is like dying a death of a thousand cuts and prolongs recovery.

I am trying to find Joseph's Letter for your W in the hope that it will knock some sense into her.

brb

In the meantime, please read this newsletter from Dr Harley:

Requirements for Recovery from an Affair

Dear K. R.,

The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the betrayed spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts http://marriagebuilders.com/ca/to.cgi?l=qa080103bc
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be
your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.

Best wishes,

Willard F. Harley, Jr.

entire article

I just posted to your wife. I advised her to write the whole thing down and give it to you. She has no right to keep even a single detail from you at this point. It is not for her to decide what you "need" to know or what you can "handle." She has abused you in one of the worst ways possible and it is my hope for you that you can find the support and encouragement you need here from people who have walked a mile (or 10) in your shoes.

Why don't you tell us a little more about you and what has happened over the past couple of months...when did you suspect, when did you know for sure, do you have any children, etc. She is sugar-coating everything at this point, so your "side" of the story would be appreciated, if you can bear to talk about it. I understand if you cannot.

Meantime...just a little piece of advice I was given when my husband (Want2Stay) and I came here a few months ago- try to stay off of each other's threads. This is a safe place for each of you to get help and to vent and to heal. Stepping all over each other's threads will only hinder your recovery.

Please read this site and the articles Dr. Harley has written on infidelity. There is so much info here and it is all extremely helpful. If you come to the site, at the top of any page, you will see "Basic Concepts." Read these...then down the RIGHT hand side of any page, you will see a box with "Most Popular Links" and a link called "How to Survive Infidelity." Read all of that, too.

I wish you all the best. Please have patience with yourself...you will need a lot of time to heal...

Here is some more great reading for ya from posters on this site!
Pep's Notable Posts

Some want ALL the details, some don't. You do, so you are entitled to 100%, just be prepared for the shocks. It is that waywards are crazy, loonie toons, bonkers, out of their cotton picking minds and that means stupid as well. There are chemical reasons for this and I'll explain if you wanna know more. And since most of us haven't been that out of our tree since we were teenagers, some (most)don't handle it well when they start to wake up and deal with their actions.

It takes most a while to wake up and face themselves in the mirror, resolved to do whatever it takes, and I mean WHATEVER it takes to mitigate the brown stain they have covered themselves with along with everyone else. When the blame shifting stops completely, you know that the two of you are on the right road.

Some of the legal minds on here might want to address the issue of getting the pics. No, don't you EVER look at them. I just wonder if a Lawyer might be able to get them and burn them or something. Just a thought. . .

This is a place where you are safe. So is your wife. Don't expect anything but the truth, the whole truth and nothing but, as rendered by the collective wisdom of those here. Some are more helpful than others and that varies a bit depending on what issue is raised.

But the bottom line is that the people here CARE. All the best.

Larry

Thanks for the posts all,

My contribution to the A was my complete and total disregard for her EN of conversation. It is not one of my top 5, but it is her #1 so I work on meeting it. He succeeded where I failed. But I don't understand where the perpetual documentation of their tryst via photos fill that void?

Tonight I got down to the emotional hell that is my life. I didn't leave a gory thought out that we other BS haven't already imagined. I saw her cringe as I described each of my my mental movies. I live this reality every waking hour of every waking day. Why should she be given the right to be offended when I recant a single hour of my hell that she chose to give me?

This really isn't a he said/she said argument. She has completely valid points. I was on my knees tonight (only because it was comfortable) but I thought it apropos to say that I need her to get past herself and to know that I wanted to make it work. Halfway through my words, she interrupted and pointed out that I was berating her. What an awkward position for a BS to be in! I was on a bent knee apologizing for actions that led another man to make love to my wife!!! I don't know the right answers to my questions, but it's 3:00 am and I'm going to sleep alone. That should be some indication of what's right and wrong I guess.

I don't think that you abused her at all(although your words are not helpful with recovery). In fact, given what she did..she was all of the things that you said.
For me...this would be a deal breaker....I would walk away from her. Imagine what other things she would be hiding if she didn't feel this was important enough to share.

Clearly a woman that would allow pictures of herself to be taken while she performed for her affair partner shows a complete and utter lack of respect for you.

In my book....she should be gone before you get the embarrassment of hearing from a friend about some pictures that he saw.

if they were taken with her consent, there is no reason he needs to turn them over.

She should still request that they be turned over. Thankfully my FWW wasn't foggy enough to actually take pictures (well, at least I hope not!), but she did share some stuff with the OM. I urged her to ask for everything back, and everything was returned and we destroyed all of it shortly afterwards.

I would say though that I'm with you on this one, MEDC. I think I would find recovery almost impossible over those circumstances.

Brother,

I'm a fellow BH. I understand how you feel and how learning a new detail after you thought you knew what happened can set you back.

I learned something like you in my situation and it re-opened wounds that had barely started scabbing over.

It gets better. No matter what happens between you and your W, it gets better. The incessant thoughts taper down and eventually disappear.

You have kids?

I feel your pain. My FWH wouldn't talk. He's started now and he's doing much better, but still leaving out too many details. Not sure the pix your FWW left out would be a detail to me, that seems like a big one. We're more than one year out from Dday and it's only been a week that H is talking without justifying. It did take an argument where he actually told me that I didn't understand how hard it was for him . His BF is the one who finally got through to him and made him understand how essential it is for H to talk to me the way I need. If the search feature is working again, look up my posts, I got some excellent advice and insight about this subject.
WS's also don't seem to get that we need to determine what info is important to us. FWH thought once the big stuff was out he was done. It's the little details that are worse for me in many cases. One slipped out this morning. OW went to FWH in tears(oddly, over a different married OM she had an A with who was going to tell her H)and he comforted her. This is the same man who laid next to me in our bed as I sobbed for hours after finding out about the A and couldn't so much as reach out a hand to comfort me. His wife, the mother of his children. Instead his response was that he never loved me and didn't want to encourage me in thinking that the M could be saved (bad fogbabble). And he made her tears go away. She knows about my kids. Innocent conversation with someone else, but that she knows makes my skin crawl. This is what I think the WS misses sometimes. It isn't a certain action or statement (although again, the pictures seem like an obvious transgression to me)It's how the action or statement relates to everything else in the M & A.

Look for TST and SexyMamaBear's posts. They have some helpful advice. Best of luck

I am NOT going to be one to recommend that you bail. Instead, give her more time to pull her head out of her, er, fog. Clearly she is looking out for her own emotions by being defensive when the reality is that if she wants a sensible recovery, she should be looking out for your's.

Enough of the veterans on here have told her she is full of it to the point where if she doesn't get it now, she might down the road.

And if she is reading this, I will say the same thing. Lady, quit thinking about your own injuries, they are self inflicted. Those on here who are after you do so because in their clear minds, you are still living in a fog or your own making. If you really want a marriage with your husband (or future mate), then you need to learn what a relationship is all about, something that is self focused at this time instead of a way more adult type thinking.

In other words, you did it, now own it and make amends. Be a grownup.

Larry

People:


With all due respect, you're mistaking s2pidity for malice.

-ol' 2long

2long, with all due respect, labeling adultery as mere "stupidity" is the understatement of the decade. That does not change the fact that an affair is an extreme form of abuse. She was not ignorant of the damage her affair would cause.

Adultery is abuse, but since it's most often carried out thoughtlessly it's not malicious, merely selfish and s2pid.

-ol' 2long

Okay, so it's EXTREME s2pidity. It's still s2pidity.

I haven't gone back over all that's been said over the past decade, so I can't comment on how understated that was relative 2 other understatements in the past 10 years.

-ol' 2long

Disagree, though it makes no difference how you define it because the result is the same. Adultery is very malicious....and selfish and thoughtless. But none of that changes the fact that there is a bleeding man on the floor because of her actions.

Question is, then, what 2 do? And who's responsible for the doing?

And how do the labels help or hinder progress?

-ol' 2long

What to do about what? Could you be more clear?

Quibbling over labels is a distraction from solving the problem, don't ya think? We can call it a baloney sandwich or whatever we choose, it won't solve the problem.