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POM,
I beg to differ;
""The incessant thoughts taper down and eventually disappear.""
In what reality are you living in, oh Brother??
Sorry, but this totally JUMPED out at me and I could not let it fly by on that light airy breeze it was floating on.
IMHO
kirk
CORDUROY PILLOWS ARE MAKING HEADLINES!!
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but since it's most often carried out thoughtlessly it's not malicious This is shockingly ignorant of the facts. Unless the adultery is a drunken one night stand there certainly exists malice of forethought in both the planning and the actions of a wayward spouse. Absent that, a wayward would make no attempt to hide their actions..stupidity would rule. More often than not, they are deceitful, manipulative and cruel....and it isn't by accident. Liken it to a crime...infidelity would be considered a premeditated act. I think there are a certain few here that find comfort in the fantasy that their husbands or wives really didn't know what the were doing...that they were somehow less than responsible for their actions. Nothing could be further from the truth.
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Question is, then, what 2 do? And who's responsible for the doing?
And how do the labels help or hinder progress?
-ol' 2long What to do about what? Could you be more clear? Quibbling over labels is a distraction from solving the problem, don't ya think? We can call it a baloney sandwich or whatever we choose, it won't solve the problem. My point exactly. Vilifying Mrs Zonie for allowing the OM 2 take pic2res of them as some sort of act of malice 2ward her H, rather than one of simple s2pidity is NOT going 2 help them recover. -ol' 2long
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Liken it to a crime...infidelity would be considered a premeditated act. But unlike a crime, infidelity isn't punishable by our legal system. I think there are a certain few here that find comfort in the fantasy that their husbands or wives really didn't know what the were doing...that they were somehow less than responsible for their actions.
Nothing could be further from the truth. ROTFLMFAO! subtle dig successfully deflected. Plenty could be further from the truth. Much is, in fact. It's called "fog." -ol' 2long
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The adultery is abusive, however its not done with the intent to harm, its more just a disregard of consequences.
I would NOT however categorize her actions as abusive now. She IS trying to fix this. She IS committed to repairing the damage and her marriage. She just doesn't know how to do it. So maybe you can call that stupid.
And she is uncertain of what the right things to do are.
If she tells -- there is explosive anger and name calling.
So in essence, you are training her not to tell.
If she doesn't tell, and it comes out in pieces -- she is destroying your trust and cutting you 1000 times instead of just once.
But MrZone, you need to give her clear direction. What do you really want to know? And can you make it safe for her to tell you?
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Vilifying Mrs Zonie for allowing the OM 2 take pic2res of them as some sort of act of malice 2ward her H, rather than one of simple s2pidity is NOT going 2 help them recover.
-ol' 2long 2 long, I'm sorry, but you're way off base in trying to rationalize this. Zonie65 is getting good advice, and doesn't need a lesson in "Doormat 101". Mrs.Z has done plenty to sabotage nearly any remaining chance at a successful R with her continued lies of ommission and justifications. She may still be "foggy" as can be, but none of that absolves her from taking full responsibility for her DAMN poor choices and she's not even close to taking THAT step yet. At this point, I think I agree with the advice Zonie65 has already received, of protecting himself and his assets, first, and then if Mrs.Z dislodges her head and becomes TRULY remorseful and repentent ... possibly, cautiously, considering R.
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I'm sorry, but you're way off base in trying to rationalize this. Zonie65 is getting good advice, and doesn't need a lesson in "Doormat 101". exactly!
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Ah yes!
Exact nonsense is still nonsense. I'm no advocate of being a doormat, and you're smart enough 2 realize that.
Lexxy's post is right on the mark for this si2ation.
End of discussion.
-ol' 2long
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I most heartily disagree. (not with you 2long....)
Nobody is advising him to be a doormat.
But he DOES have a role in recovery.
He doesn't get to just sit back and make her do all the work.
He isn't ENTITLED to anything.
If he wants his marriage to recover, he needs to be an EQUAL partner in making that happen.
We FINALLY have a wayward who is willing to work on the marriage and needs help and guidance. Do you know how RARE those are?
She is not being evil and abusive -- but she is floundering on what the right things to do are.
I don't think we should be feeding MrZone's sense of entitlement.
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My point exactly.
Vilifying Mrs Zonie for allowing the OM 2 take pic2res of them as some sort of act of malice 2ward her H, rather than one of simple s2pidity is NOT going 2 help them recover.
-ol' 2long With all due respect, 2Long, the other posts on this thread are offering solutions while your contribution has been about the appropriate label to apply. Do you have a solution you would like to add?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Yes.
Don't apply labels.
-ol' 2long
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p.s. Adultery *IS* an extreme form of abuse and there is no reason to pretend its not. It is a willful act that is more traumatic than the death of a child or a RAPE. Those are not my words, but the words of the good Dr. Harley. We aren't going to get anywhere by pretending it is something other than what it really is.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Nobody is advising him to be a doormat. I see it differently. He doesn't get to just sit back and make her do all the work If he decides to work on it, that is a GIFT to her. Surely, since she is soley responsible for her actions, he doesn't NEED to do anything. He should and most likely will help...but this is her mess to clean up. He isn't ENTITLED to anything. I disagree 100%. He IS entitled to her patience. She is not being evil and abusive again, subjective. I think that not sharing that information earlier is evil and abusive.
Last edited by mkeverydaycnt; 04/29/08 12:50 PM. Reason: clarity
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Yes.
Don't apply labels.
-ol' 2long Good advice! 2Long: Okay, so it's EXTREME s2pidity. It's still s2pidity.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You people with cubic metric tons of time on your hands, by all means carry on.
I hope the Zonies survive this.
Bye,
-ol' 2long
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You people with cubic metric tons of time on your hands, by all means carry on.
I hope the Zonies survive this.
Bye,
-ol' 2long Do you have some helpful suggestions for Zonie, 2Long?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Ok, let's keep this on track and try to keep posts helpful and respectful. Instead of criticizing other posters, please offer suggestions to Zonie. We are here to Marriage Build.
Thank you all!
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Some of you seem to see a FWW trying to find her way ... I see a still WW, who just realized that she may have made a mistake that can not be overcome and is scrambling.
You see, from a BH's perspective, she has just admitted to doing something for the OM that WILL NOT allow her BH to ever be able to "get over it", because he will NEVER feel safe that he won't be confronted with others who now have access to these photos.
Mrs.Z just took the humiliation of her BH to a whole new level. Now there are not just vague intangible images of "what may have happened", but somewhere someone has hard tangible records of her unfaithfulness and her BH's humiliation, which in an instant can now appear ANYWHERE & EVERYWHERE.
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Some of you seem to see a FWW trying to find her way Not me. Choosing to lie by omission to her H in order to protect something that happened between herself and the OM - well, that's straight out of the WS Handbook, isn't it? I do wish the Z's the best of luck in the recovery of their M, but the process must include the rebuilding of trust, and that's not likely going to happen if the lies (by omission or otherwise) continue.
ManInMotion
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(see "MiM's Story" for more details)
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Maverick: Thanks for the reminder. MyRev: Your post deserves comment. Some of you seem to see a FWW trying to find her way ... That'd be me, for one. I see a still WW, who just realized that she may have made a mistake that can not be overcome and is scrambling. This makes sense 2 the point about the mistake not being possible 2 overcome. I don't see it that way. You see, from a BH's perspective, she has just admitted to doing something for the OM that WILL NOT allow her BH to ever be able to "get over it", because he will NEVER feel safe that he won't be confronted with others who now have access to these photos. If this is true for Zonie, I find that very sad. I agree that overcoming something like this is HARD (I won't disclose why I know, sorry). If he stays married, obviously he'll have 2 deal with this issue. But if he doesn't stay married, he'll still have 2 deal with this issue. So, things like this are hard 2 overcome, but bypassing them simply isn't an option. Mrs.Z just took the humiliation of her BH to a whole new level. When? When the photos were taken? When she told him about them? Now there are not just vague intangible images of "what may have happened", but somewhere someone has hard tangible records of her unfaithfulness and her BH's humiliation, which in an instant can now appear ANYWHERE & EVERYWHERE. Do you honestly believe they will? Should Zonie live in fear of this happening for the rest of his life? -ol' 2long
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