cute mrs. w...

would you like to email me too?

mlhb

MEDC & MLHB,

Studio time to record LaLa's CD - $1500

Been There Done That T-Shirt - $25

Related marriage building books and counseling - $800

AD's to help cope with the fallout - $300

Getting to see MEDC acting coy and flirty in an MB thread - PRICELESS

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.....hehehehe

Want2Stay

Me too, Want to. He is such a good guy. It's fun to see.

And MLHB has paid her dues in the good woman department.

Now back to marriagebuilding..........

Krazy,

I was pretty stunned by this. If anyone here deserves to have a spouse that is fully on board with recovery using the MB principals it is you. The fact that you have made it 2 years past Dday speaks volumes about your strength. I can say this speaking from experience. Before I met LaLa, I walked in on my girlfriend in bed with another man. I only lasted 5 days before I moved out and never spoke to her again. Probably a big part of the reason I have struggled so much now that infidelity has touched my marriage also. The thing is Krazy, that you have already made it this far. Why not see it through to the end? Why not sit Mrs. Krazy down and make a push to change what hasn't worked so far?


As LaLa said, I know exactly how you feel. I have affectionately labeled this as "WTF Syndrome." There is no doubt that it is extremely difficult to overcome this feeling, but I absolutely believe that under the right circumstances, with 2 people who love one another working together, you can get past it. We are doing it one day at a time, in baby steps and I believe that you had your DW could do the same. Why else would any of us be here if it wasn't possible.

I see no schmuck here. I see a man that obviously still loves his wife very much in spite of her mistakes. What I see is someone that is a hero for enduring circumstances that would make most men fold like a house of cards. Give yourself more credit than that.

So, Krazy, what's your plan to get your recovery back on track?


Want2Stay

"MEDC & MLHB,

Studio time to record LaLa's CD - $1500

Been There Done That T-Shirt - $25

Related marriage building books and counseling - $800

AD's to help cope with the fallout - $300

Getting to see MEDC acting coy and flirty in an MB thread - PRICELESS

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.....hehehehe"

Want2Stay


TOTALLY LMAO!

mlhb

Thank you Believer... Good Lord I do think I have!

Yes, back to marriage building...

mlhb

The one thing I can not come to an understanding on is how one can be basically be alright if another A occurred in their marriage and that this could possibly better than the alternative.

I agree with Dr. Harley that an A deals trauma like a rape. It is a horrible experience that no one could ever want to be alright with potentially going through again and this being better than the alternative. The only way I can somehow rationalize this is if one has detached so much or decided to sacrifice one's self for a supposed greater good.

I have NO desire to ever go through this again. I've gone through it and will make the best I possibly can of it but I have no desire to go through it again and if I had concerns that I would go through it again I would take steps to go in a different direction. I don't consider this selfish. I consider it reasonable. I consider it living.

Making mistakes and overcoming them is humbling and honorable.

Repeating the same destructive cycles and being ok with it is.....I don't know.....self destructive...

TJD, your post reminds me of the saying: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

now, that was just too funny! Very cute W2S.


Thanks Believer...for that you will be invited to the nuptials.

and yes, back to MB.

nuptials?

i have never been courted so fast in my entire life! hehe

Krazy.. How are you doing? I agree with what many of the posters here have been telling you. I just get concerned that you are 2 years in and still having such troubles. Some people just can't get over infidelity. How long do you think you will be able to do this?

mlhb

Ahem!!! What am I, chopped liver?

Mrs. W

nah, that was just a oversight on my part Won't happen again!

Resonance > “Does that mean because you haven't had SF in...how many years was it...that you don't have any, ahem...testosterone?”

LOL, I’d say good one, but I have to admit one of my colleagues here at work bet me in advance at least one of three posters on this thread would post this very comment. Now I owe her lunch.


Without making trouble out of a lot of other quotes, I just want to say, MB is riddled with inconsistencies. As just one example, some articles and books declare missing ENs as the main contributing factor in straying. In others by the same good Dr the lack of personal boundaries of the WS is blamed in no uncertain terms as the cause of all adultery.

One Harley article right here on MB he states remorse and an apology by the WS are not necessary. Useful and even called for, but not necessary for recovery. This thread has evolved into an explicit repudiation of several Harley pronouncements like this one (e.g. ML’s rejection of Plan A for another). All conveniently overlooked though.

Sort of like how religious cults try to cover logical gaps, the failures of either the BS or the WS to not follow “scripture” is blamed whenever recovery (read: redemption) is not perfect. Much like a born again Christian joyously and in no uncertain terms saved, but then goes on to later commit some grievous sin, well, they were never saved in the first place. Circular arguments like this supporting MB gospel abound, both on the main site and here on the forums. It is especially prevalent on MB to say the BS is in some way pathological when recovery is not to an MB acolyte’s liking

My recovery is just fine. Personal better than marital (by SF or some other erroneous EN standard) but I am not complaining in either case. So why is that a problem for you?

I don’t think you know what you are doing, actually. And you need to be more selective in your Harleyisms. You are not very good at picking and choosing. You missed way too many inconsistencies and logical gaps.

In the main, MB is pretty good at facilitating the end of garden variety adultery. It sort of greases the rail the A is sliding down anyway. (I do have to say even though Plan A and exposure helped; it was a face to face confrontation with OM that drove him off in my case - which is a general gasping no-no according to MB theory. Well, just another thing for true believers to pretend didn't happen I guess.)

It is also fairly good at aiding recovery when the WS is reasonably remorseful and ends contact. It sort of spreads sand to provide traction on the slippery road upwards. But most of these marriages would have recovered anyway. They just do it with fewer pauses for arguments and perhaps a bit sooner.

But MB methods are not very good at recovery in off-nominal and hard cases, like VLTAs.

In the interest of full disclosure, do you know that one of Dr Harley’s first marriage coaching students now completely repudiates the entire EN theory of affairs? She even states her data show the ENQ to be more harmful than helpful and entirely useless. And her overall success rate is at least as good as MB.

Appy:

I'm glad I read that when I did, lest it get edited (I hope it doesn't).

I would only point out that in my case, dealing with a VLTA, that if anything I was surprised at how "different" SH's approach and recommendations are for me than the perceived norm - the "principles" - around these forums.

Also, When I signed up in 2002, he did direct me 2 fill out the ENQ forms. But when I signed up last month, he had a completely different questionnaire that was focused on me and my state of mind and stuff.

-ol' 2long

Aphelion,

I don't see that MB is completely riddled with inconsistencies. I see the EN and Boundary theories as complimentary rather than conflicting.


I have the same reaction to this as you. To disagree on what constitutes recovery is one thing. The vehement reaction and downright disrespect I don't understand.

On the dissenting student, how can a questionnaire which basically promotes a little introspection be harmful? What is her name? And what numbers are you comparing for success rates?

Wow, Aphelion, what a disappointment to read this post denigrating Marriage Builders. I am very grateful I didn't read this when I first got here.

Never have I "rejected Plan A." I think that Plan A is a great plan and recommend it often to others. I would never go into Plan A MYSELF because if my H had not ended contact with his OW immediately, I would not have allowed him back. And if he ever had another affair, I wouldn't stay married.

But that is just my personal preference, NOT a "rejection" of Plan A.

I am not going to go into each one of your slams, because I think you are really lashing out at another poster but I did want to respond to at least one, because I think it typifies your mixed up view of MB.


These are not inconsistencies, but TWO of the FACTORS that lead to affairs. They are not mutually exclusive traits, after all. One can be vulnerable to an affair because their needs are not met and because they have poor boundaries; many have both of these traits. There can be many reasons, these are just SOME of them.

I don't believe Marriage Builders has ever claimed to be all things to all people, Aphelion, but if you so dislike the program, why are you here? To trash it and make hopeless people more hopeless?

The new questionaire does not replace the EN questionaire, but is used to assess personality traits for use in counseling. [if it is the same one my H and I took]

When my H and I attended the MB weekend, we also filled it out. It was a tool to enable Dr. Harley to assess certain personality traits. They still use BOTH.

As you can see, the EN questionaire is STILL on this website and still very valuable. It has not been replaced.

maybe not, but you do sound as though you are bitter and lacking joy in life. I hope that is not the case.

NOWHERE has MB ever said this was a "no-no." Just the opposite. Steve has counseled clients to have a "face to face" with the OM and ask him his intentions. Dr. Harley recommended the same thing on his radio show. He told the caller, a BS, to not only go see the OM, but to "make as much trouble as possible for him" in order to discourage him.

I have stated often over the years that confronting the OW caused the affair to end THAT DAY. I have told others to do the same thing MANY TIMES.

I know that some here have given their personal opinion against confronting the OP, but that was just that, a personal opinion. Another case where your criticism of MB was not founded on facts, Aph.

I don't think any inconsistencies have been illustrated. Many misunderstandings, perhaps.

There's alot going on with the MB plan, if there is a drawback, it is that it can seem overly broad and hard to understand. However, I think most people, when they find it, are able to find the pieces that most suit their puzzle and apply them.

Another thing: we're dealing with infidelity. There isn't going to be a plan that is successful 100% of the time. The fact that there are THIS many people here having some kind of success in thier marriages post A to me speaks volumes about the MB plan. Does it always work? No. Nothing will always work. Some, maybe even most marriages are going to fail after an A. The great thing about MB is that even if the marriage fails, the person that follows the plan is already ahead in thier personal recovery as a result of following the plan.

So, what is the drawback? One thing I've noted is that people that think thier situations are very unique are usually people that try to find a way to NOT follow the MB plan. I think that this is because there is something about the plans that they really don't like, that scares them. Perhaps a terrible fear of confrontation making one unwilling to expose or something like that. This leads people to explain over and over again why thier situation is so unique and special that the plans could never work for them, that if they applied them, they'd end up divorced immediately. Sadly, most of these people will probably end up divorced anyway. Later rather than sooner, which IMO is just a compounded failure.