Hi. I had a previous post but it didn't seem to fit any longer. I've been maried for 17 years and found out in Jan. that H was having an A with someone at work. It went on for 6 months until OW husband found out and told me. H wanted to stay and work on M. First month was ok, seemed to be trying. Later H confessed that he had no feelings for me and was having a hard time getting over OW. Tried plan A. We have seen a MC 3 times so far. He sees OW about 1-2 times a month in class which will go on until July. Which I think is a big issue. Basically he is fence sitting and I decided to take the fence down! I told him I can't do this any longer and want a separation. H is still hung up on A and does not truly regret it. A would not have ended if OWH and I hadn't found out. MC agreed that it was time to separate.It will take a few weeks to set things up for the move.

Any advice on what to do and what not to do? We will be in the same town and will share children. I don't want to put the children in the middle or find someone to relay messages. I know that there should be no contact. What about contact just about children's schedules? I ordered SAA and hope it gets here soon.

Thanks for all your help on my previous post. It helps me get through this. Friends can listen and offer advice but they have not been in this situation. I so appreciate everyone and all the posts on the board.

Can you set up an LSA, to protect your finances? That is one thing I did, and it gave me peace of mind.

Find an intermediary. YOu don't have to TALK about issues with the kids. Schedules and such can go thru intermediary via email or cell. From your sig line, I see that your children are older, so you won't have to be physically present for nights that your WH has the kids and drops them off. I had my WH drop our son off at the door. We never SAW one another; I resisted temptation to look out the window at him. Do what is best for YOU, not your WH.

OUT OF SIGHT is what you want to be at this time.

His seeing OW even ONCE (or emailing, phoning, etc), even for a second, sets him back in withdrawal. It's like trying to quit smoking and hanging around a smoker. You do okay for a couple of weeks, then you have just one with your smoker friend, to curb your cravings (or reward yourself--I know, it's sick) the it's back to attempting to quit, withdrawal, and all the craziness you experience in that state. If he cannot agree to your conditions for recovery, then step aside. Even if OW is attempting to work on her M, the same situation applies for her, and withdrawal will not be complete until they are parted. The temptation to start the A again will be there for both of them.

Plan B is difficult at first, and we have a whole bunch of people here NOT doing a dark Plan B. So before you even start one, be sure that there is no reason at all to contact each other.

The visitation with the kids should be arranged on a schedule if possible. They are old enough to be dropped off without you having to see hubby.

Then you need to figure out the financial part. Let him know how much money you will need and have him deposit it weekly or bi-weekly in your account. A lot of men withhold money to force the wife to break Plan B. And since you said finances are tight, I see that as a problem, because they will be tighter with two different households.

Also has hubby agreed to move? That is sometimes a problem.

And lastly, be sure to post your Plan B letter here before you send it, so that we can vet it, shorten it, help you get rid of the disrespectful judgements, etc.

Thanks for the help.

Silent - I prefer not to do a LSP just yet. Finances are tight and I don't want to involve Courts until we have to. I want to give it a few months first. If for some reason H does not follow through financially I will though. Thanks for the advice and I certainly will keep it in the back of my head.

Believer- My financial plan is just what you were saying- that way there is no contact needed regarding finances if it is set up before. Regarding contact, the children attend a school outside of our district so they need to be picked up at bus stop. I am not home at those times (2 different buses). H and a friend of mine share in reponsibility. If H has to work or something then I usually ask my friend to pick up at both times, which is a real inconvenance. Should I have H contact my friend directly or have children be the go between. I just don't want the children to feel like they are in the middle. I also don't want them to think that I am awful because I won't talk to their father. Any experience with children in this situation?

I have talked to the children about the seperation. They said very little even when asked for thoughts. My 16 yr old said it wouldn't be much different because of H's shift. H is hardly home when they are.

H doesn't want to move out. Why would he. I have dinner on the table and the house clean, etc. MC told us today that she thinks it should happen. MC told him that he is not over OW and is not committed to M. It was good for H to hear it from someone else because he was telling me that I should give it more time and blaming me for wanting to end the M by him moving out.

You really need to check around and get an intermediary. I know it sounds like a lot of hassle, but you will be glad you did. That way there can be no contact. Otherwise WS's tend to start with contact about the kids, and then go on from there. Much simpler to have no contact at all from the first.

Good luck with getting him to move. Sounds like he has it made at home.

Talked with WH a little about how things need to be set up for the seperation. I'm having a hard time convincing him that we need to have no contact. I told him that he can call my friend regarding children's rides since they are the ones that do it anyway. Got any verbage for me? I don't want to look like I am stubborn and withdrawn by not talking.

Anyone out there successful at plan B with minimal contact?

I don't want to mess things up. I want to have everything lined up so when it happens it's done.

Told FIL last night. He was devastated and feels like he doesn't even know his son. Seems like a lot of that going around. MIL is calling today as she wasn't there when I called. They are very supportive which is very helpful. Unfortunately they live out of state.

Has anyone gone through this and been able to maintain a relationship with IL?

Please respond with any advice. I really need some support right now. It is going to take evrything I have to go through with plan B and I'm not feeling very strong.

I couldn't find a good Plan B letter with the new search feature. But the Plan B letter should explain everything. You let him know that you love him, married him for life, and are now not going to have contact with him while the affair continues, to protect your love for him.

Then layout the condition for reconciliation - ie: no contact with the OW forever.

Thanks for the advice Believer. I just got the SAA yesterday and read about 1/2 of it.

My feelings have been changing over the past few days. A few days ago we had a really good talk and it looked like he was really understanding the hurt he has caused. He left for work and gave me 3 long tight hugs and thanked me for sticking it out. I was very glad with this and thought that this was a start. I told him that if he comes around soon then maybe we won't need to move to a seperation.

The next morning I talked to him on the phone (We work opposite schedules). I could tell that he was distant again. I told him I appreciated his hug last night and I had hope for us. I asked him why he seemed different today. He said there were memories of the OW during his job last night. They previously worked together. He was still distant that night when i saw him.

I started to think about why I am going through this agony. I have been a good wife and thought I met his needs. He never said differently and when I would bring up issues in the marriage he would just ignore them. I made a list of all the pros and cons of my H. There are more cons and they are the ones that are my top EN. He has made major life decisions without consulting me, has not been there when I needed him, lied and kept secrets, and acted selfish. I would address these things in the marriage but it wouldn't change. I had a strong committment and honored it. I question why I should work on the marriage. I look at his past record and his lack of commitment now and wonder how we can even get through the affair when we couldn't fix the other things. he doesn't want to work on things or discuss things, ever. I should have been the one to have the affair!! He refuses to fill our EN questions and read SAA. He says he needs time to get through this in his own way (which hasn't seem to be working in the past 4 months). I asked him if he wants to get over the affair. His response is "I don't know."

My moods change from crying with sadness to anger about his disrespect to me and the marriage over the years. I have been thinking of ending this and moving on. I resent all I have done for him through the years and how he has treated me. The affair is the last straw. I feel like I am in constant turmoil and I am the only one committed. How long do you need to wait for a spouse to commit to the marriage...you know the one they committed to when they said "I do."

Are these feelings part of the end of Plan A or am I really ready to give up. I feel exhausted emotionally and don't even know if Plan B will help. BTW, he has a monthly class with OW until July. Even in Plan B it will be a long time coming. Do I cut my losses?

Please advise! Anyone been through these feelings?

Your feelings are completely normal. We all went through those. We call it the rollercoaster. But we always suggest that you give it a good try to save your marriage. That way you can look back in 5 years with no regrets.

Hubby being close and then distant is normal too. That is just the way it is. I hope you will decide to hang in there.

I felt EXACTLY the same way.

It is very possible that after you move into Plan B and you are not meeting ANY of your H's needs, he will realize that he wants to save the marriage and will be willing to make changes.

I didn't really do Plan B, but when I learned of my H's EA, I was so furious that I threw him out. Within a short time, he wanted to come home and work on the M.

It surprised me how much he was willing to work on our M once NC was in place and he had gotten through w/d. "His Needs Her Needs" was recommended to me here, and it really opened our eyes to the changes we BOTH had to make. My H is so much better at meeting my needs now than he was pre-A.

I think this is exactly the reason for Plan B. You need to protect your emotional health...protect the little bit of love you have left for your H...just in case...

I agree with Believer, you don't want to look back in five years and wonder. Right now your H is in w/d...still seeing his OW...and you are going through a lot of turmoil. Not the best time to make any definite decisions. Why not work a good Plan B and see how you feel in a little while? Hang in there!

I am in a similar situation, actually so much of this story seems like my story. Married 16 years, together for 18, three children. My husbands affair was with a women he works with, it went on for four months. He say he want to work it out, he tried for months, we went to counseling, we read books. But he never left his job and he works with her and coaches her daughter.

It has been about 18 months since revelation, more than enough time to find another job, he just want to pretend like nothing happened, and nothing would have to change.

I felt like we had reconnected and that thier was hope... But we are right back where we started when the affair happened. He is up on the computer at night, I go to bed alone and cry myself to sleep. He says he is working or applying for jobs. Typical day, he worked all day, then went to his coaching job (where the OW is and her daughter plays for him) then comes home about 9:30 me and my three girls finally see him. He barely says anything and then into the computer, where he stays until 3:30. I try to explain that I have EN that need to be met, that I am insecure, lonely, heartbroken, and incredible uncomfortable each day that we have to encounter her.

I have asked for space, I have begged for attention, I have prayed, I have cried, I have screamed, I have been rational and out of control. I have tried every approach to this. Every now and then he throws me a bone and says he loves me or that we will work this out. Yesterday we had lunch together, it was nice, he said he was sorry that he was so lame. He feels he is evil and shouldn't be in a relationship, he says he cannot balance all the demands in his life, something has to be ignored and that is me and his girls. I have asked him to leave, he begs to stay. I have thrown him out, he comes back and pretend nothing happened. I am trying to be kind, loving, loyal, obedient to God's word, patient, and make sure his girls love and respect him. But honestly, I am so tired, I feel like sometimes I wish God would just put me out pf my misery because I can't handle it anymore. I worry about him still being on the internet (he was addicted to porn for 4 years). I worry about him lying to me about his work (he would tell me he was working while he slept with her), I feel sick to my stomach all the time.

I have three girls and the two youngest have begged me not to seperate or divorce, they ask me to just keep trying. SO I keep trying. I didn't lie, I didn't cheat, I didn't take for granted all the gifts that God gave me, I didn't neglect my family. I stayed true to my commitment and for that I suffer.

I don't understand why he is so cruel and why I am continually made a fool of when I am trying to do the right thing.

I don't know what to do. I don't know what I want to do. I don't know what God wants me to do? I don't know know what is best for my girls. I don't know how he really feels or who he really is, and most of the time I don't care anymore. I don't know anything and I am miserable. HELP!

(((Danilocomo11)))

I am so sorry for your pain.

Have you read all the information that has been posted recently about recognizing an affair as an addiction and about a WS still working with their AP?

You need to look at your WH as a fogged-out addict. All your recovery efforts are worthless and you can't expect him to make any decisions in your best interests while he is still in the throes of his addiction or in withdrawal.

I briefly looked at your first thread and saw that you got some good advice there, specifically from MEDC. Have you gotten your ducks in a row for Plan B?

Just like heartbreak, you need to preserve your emotional health (you know about PTSD, right?) and you need to preserve any love you have left for him. It sounds like you have let this go on too long.

Please take care of yourself, OK?

I started to work for Plan B, but he begged me not to, my kids told me that they were so happy that we were still together. I feel guilty for thinking about asking him to leave when I know how my kids feel, they would be so hurt by me if I asked him to leave. They have been hurt enough, I can;t bear to be the one to hurt more. I went to counseling for over a year and I read alot, I know the symptoms of PTSD and I feel like I am in the throws of that. I really really need some hope and need a break, why is it that if I am doing what God wants me to do I should feel so lonely and heartbroken? Is this my life?

My babies don't see me crying myself to sleep at night, they don't know all the details. I have tried to sheild them, keep things as normal as possible, and have them stay in love with their Dad. I have tried to preserve as much as I could for them. But as a result I really suffer in quiet. Most of my family and friends are not Christians so they don't understand why I would continue to humiliate myself and be unhappy.

I have moments of joy and happiness, they are ususally when I am far removed from him and the reminders. I ache for that feeling of freedom and confidence that I only seem to have when I am away from him.

AS far as the addiction thing, where would I read more of that?

Thank you for caring.

I heard this one time and you made me think of it...It was basically advice that was given to someone who was allowing another person to abuse them. The advice was to think of the advice you would give to someone you really love if they were in your own shoes and to follow that advice (the thinking being that you don't love yourself enough to do what's best for YOU).

If one of your daughters, later as an adult, came to you and was in the situation you are in right now, in the pain that you are in right now, what would you tell her to do? Would you tell her to continue on the way that you are now or would you tell her to protect herself and move to Plan B?

I don't think you should be talking to your H about "starting" Plan B. If you tell him what you are planning, of course he will try to talk you out of it. I know there are a lot of people here who can really help you set up a good Plan B and execute it if and when you are ready.

I will bump the two threads about addiction("The Affair Addiction") and working with your AP ("Can I trust my instincts now?").

Good luck and hang in there...

ps ~ As far as doing what's best for your kids, what you are describing, he sounds as though he has been terribly disconnected and absent. You subjecting yourself to this for this length of time is not in their best interest.

HB

The purpose of Plan B is to protect YOURSELF and your remaining love for your WS. A good Plan B needs careful consideration / preparation before implementing.

Some very important things to consider:

Plan B letter: This letter basically states that there is to be no contact whatsoever between you & WS until such a time as conditions YOU state are met (i.e. No Contact with OP, Willingness to work on marriage, marital counseling, etc…). The plan B letter is a “roadmap” to the WS on what YOU need to consider reconciliation

If you’re not sure if you’ve written a good plan B letter, post it. We’ll give you some suggestions / critic. A good rule of thumb with plan B letters: The shorter and more to the point the better.


Intermediary: As you’ve already noticed, any contact with the fogged out WS is caustic and ends up withdrawing units from your LB. The simple solution to this is to not have contact.

That is where the intermediary comes in. The intermediary is the person that your WS has to contact to get a message to you. The job of the intermediary is to pass messages directly from WS to you & from you to WS. The intermediary is NOT to interpret the communications in any way and simply pass the message back and forth.

Do NOT accept direct communications from the WS (phone, email, text messages, direct conversation, etc…) as this breaks plan B and allows WS to get his “family” fix.

If WS phones (make sure you have caller ID) or and unrecognized number comes across, let it go to voicemail. If the VM is from WS delete it. If you pick up the phone and WS is on the other end, Hang UP!

If WS emails: Delete it! A better alternative to this is to block his incoming emails. You can do this various ways depending on the email system you use. Let us know if you need help blocking these. Someone on the board will likely know how to block whatever system you are using.

If WS text messages: Delete it!

Direct Conversation: Turn your back and walk to a supportive group and / or leave.

If you have ANY direct communications your mantra is: “Have you met the conditions of my letter?” If no, hang up / leave.


Visitation: It is best to have a visitation schedule set beforehand. Any deviations need to be arranged through the intermediary. It is usually best to send the kids to the waiting car and upon return have the kids come to the house from the car. I do not recommend allowing the WS in the home. They tend to leave little “surprises” for you to find later.

Make sure that they know that they are not welcome inside your home until the conditions outlined in your letter are met. If the WS comes in anyway, go to another room and shut the door. Again; if you have ANY direct communications your mantra is: “Have you met the conditions of my letter?”


Finances: It is best to have this set beforehand. Any deviations need to be arranged through the intermediary.


Family Relations: State your desire that you do not wish to hear any “news” about your WS. Let them know what it going on and what the intent of your plan is. Thank them for their support.


Plan B tends to drive a WS nuts! They can no longer get their “good normal family” fix. They will try very hard to break your plan b and get back to “cake eating”. Do not let this happen! Give the WS a little preview of what it will be like to actually “lose” his family.

It is not too late to get a good plan b going. Post back with any questions.

Stay Strong!

I guess I just get confused over the commitment thing and being obedient to God through this, I get very confused.

Thanks for the Plan B description that is soooo helpful and I am going to begin to put it together. Where can I post my plan when I am finished to get the best feedback.

You are angels!

You can use your old thread.

Great, put your plan together and you will get support here.

Sending ~~~~good Plan B vibes~~~~ your way!

Thanks for giving me some hope and helping me to not feel so alone and deperate.

Just as someone just said on Redberries' thread... "We're rooting for you!".

BTW, some great Plan B advice and support being given there. You might want to check it out

What is redberries thread?