AS,

I'm not sure exactly how to approach this. I think you really have three things going on here.

1. Men masturbate. I believe that most doctors and psychologists would express the opinion that this is fairly normal behavior and that this is not, in and of itself, "having an affair". I'm not sure of the Christian implications here, so others would need to weigh in on that. Certainly, it would be good if he were to engage you in sexual fulfillment when he was feeling needy in this regard, however, I don't think it to be that unusual for this behavior (masturbation) to occur in general. I think that the two of you could use the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) and the Emotional Needs Questionnaires and figure these things out together.

Many men also care enough about how God sees this, to substain from it. To say that 'men masturbate' and leave it there, is a cop out, and the excuse that men will use, to say and think that it's ok. If it's NOT ok with the wife, and she finds out and is hurt, broken, or whatever, the husband needs to control it.

2. The communication with his ex needs to stop. He should not be sharing this type of conversation with his ex during the night, especially when he would not share it with you. Again, the EN questionnaire would give you some insight into what needs are not being met for him, and help guide you into what you might look at for improving your relationship and filling him up in terms of meeting whatever need the ex seems to have stepped up to fill.

When I asked him about this, he told me she had called to discuss what was going on with their adult daughter. I still feel that his daughter was the one to call him, not his ex-wife, and the conversation did NOT have to go on so long. His ex is living 3 states away and with her boyfriend. He rarely talks to his ex-wife, but this still did really bother me.

3. Sexual fulfillment must be an issue in your marriage that has changed for him and the two of you have not openly addressed it. While you have offered, there may be a changing desire on his part, or something he needs that he has not expressed. The EN questionnaire might help to open up a dialogue for you two on this topic. I wonder if he is wanting perhaps some variety, or excitement, that he isn't comfortable talking about? Maybe an open discussion with him along these lines, or perhaps you taking a different tactic in the SF department might help in this.

Nothing has changed, I've asked him. He's told me that the reason for the masterbation with the magazine, was not from lack of SF from me, but stemmed from his being angry with me, resenting something, he said he couldn't remember exactly. Thing is, it happened twice, but he still claims both times were when he was angry with me.

From my own perspective, I'm not so sure that he has had an "affair". I see that you are hurt, and bothered/distressed.

I disagree, from God's perspective and my understanding of His word, he has used another woman's body, face and looks, to please himself. God says it's as if he has actually committed the act.

Hope this helps.

SB

not unusual at all. It is a normal thing...for MANY women as well.

In fact, I would say that more sex would lead to more masturbation.

Her H's comments about his ex were uncalled for and inappropriate.

And again I say, it depends on who's POV you're using, Christian or Non-Christian.

I think you might want to talk with your pastor about this. Whiloe I do not believe in the use of "magazines" and such...thinking a thought (what you are calling lusting) and acting on that thought are entirely different...even from a Christian perspective.


http://www.geocities.com/dcheddie/lust1.html

I agree that he shouldn't be making comments about the bodies of other women.

Wrong on his part.

I think they really need to do some work here. He's showing lots of signs of needs in the SF dept that they need to communicate about.

There's not much more than a woman can do for a man sexually, than what I give him on a regular basis.

aprilshowers: You're right in your understanding of what Jesus said about "lust in the heart." Your husband has cheated on you, at least by that standard. The fact that non-Christians (and some Christians, many of them male, oddly enough) disagree, is entirely a different issue, and not an argument I will enter. You asked as a Christian; I'm answering in the same vein.

THANK you! It's nice that somebody sees it as God does, and as I read in His word.

I also know at the gut level how badly this hurts, how demeaning it is to you as a woman, and how devalued you feel. Having said that, you can still have the chance to recover your marriage by MB principles if both you and your husband are working together. If he's not willing to commit himself to change, you have to choose your own response and decide what you want to do next. What I chose for myself may not be right for you, but every woman in these circumstances has to make a choice eventually.

Yes, that's true. I think that's the hardest part, deciding if you can do the work AGAIN to see if this can be saved.

Read Stalwart's thread. It's in the first 5 pages or so. He determined to change. If your husband can do the same, your marriage can change, too.

I'll look for that thread, thank you.

When I first met him, he had a box of x-rated books in his bedroom and several x-rated movies. That should have been my red flag, and I ignored it.

What difference is it, that it's a picture in a magazine, or a woman in the flesh? OK, no disease, I'll give you that. And the chance of this woman falling in love/lust with him, but in concept, and in God's eyes, if a man makes a decision to do this, it's a choice he has made to use THAT woman, not his wife. He takes away from his wife, and hurts her heart in so doing.

We've been having troubles for awhile, but at least he's never been involved with anybody else, and our sex life has been very good. We've been married 10 years and are currently separated, his idea because of the stress of fighting, etc.

Yes, many. I talked to him again last night, and calmly let him know how deep this hurt me, how "I" see it, regardless of how others might view it, as that should be what matters. He apologized and said he made a mistake (twice), but he can't go back. He didn't even protest once, when I told him I was considering divorce. It hurt that he didn't fight for our marriage at all.

A similar discussion came up sometime back. Someone, I believe MelodyLane, made reference to an article in which Dr. Harley stated that porn and/or masturbation are both harmful to a marriage. I happen to agree with that, although I cannot find the post or article now.

Melody, was that indeed you, and do you remember where that article is? If I recall, you made the point that he said masturbation is the misuse of something that should belong to the spouse alone, and getting an EN met selfishly.

BTW, I have never really thought the idea that "everyone does it so it's ok" is good reasoning. After all, the majority of people also cheat and lie.

Honestly, with the lack of fulfilling sex life with my FWW (which we are working on but progress is WAY too slow), I can't look at a semi-attractive woman without fantasizing about having sex with her. I'm sorry, I just can't. It could be any number of women - girls at the gym, a coworker, a friend, an in-law, it doesn't matter. Whoever I come in contact with.

I view it like this. Procreating is a biological imperative. It is programmed into men (and women too, although not as much). If my sex life with my spouse is non-existant, I subconsciously no longer view her as a viable mate. Subconsciously, I start looking for other potential mates and imagine what it would be like. Now, I know my own weakness, so I don't put myself in a position to act on anything. This is why so many men wind up cheating. Their sex life with their wife is lacking, and they think that they can resist temptation when they should really be avoiding situations where there would be temptation.

Basically, what you are talking about is natural. If you don't want your husband to think about other women (as much), I would suggest really working to improve your sex life and communicating what he needs to do to make you a more willing partner.