Hello,

Sure hope you guys don't mind, I've been posting on 'general' and just posted in 'just found out', but I need some help to know how to get past this, and this forum seems to have more activity.

If administration would like to remove my post in 'just found out', that would be ok with me.

I know it's not a physical affair, but it's killing me just the same.

I found out that H has thought of other women, while masterbating at home alone. We've been having troubles for awhile, but at least he's never been involved with anybody else, and our sex life has been very good. We've been married 10 years and are currently separated, his idea because of the stress of fighting, etc.

Our sex life has always been the one area that I felt safe with, satisfied and that I had a special place to share with him. Now this is tearing me apart inside. He's admitted to masterbating with magazines a few times, but who knows how often it's been.

He told me it's been when he's been angry with me over something.

Even before this, I've told him to please come to me, when he wanted that need filled, I've never turned him down, but found out that occasionally, he's fulfilled it at home alone. I told him to please hold off and come to me. He said he would.

Three things happened 3 nights in a row, just recently. First, during foreplay, he was telling me how (the women before me) didn't look like they had big breasts, but when naked, they were very nice. Like I WANT to hear that before sex with him!

Second night, I tried talking to him at home, and he didn't want to. I found out the next day that his ex-wife called him and woke him up and they talked 1/2 hour. He hates me waking him up to talk. Luckily, she lives 3 states away and is living with her boyfriend.

Third night, the discovery of what he's been doing with the magazines.

I have to mention that I'm a Christian, and I believe as God does, to lust after a woman, is having done what is in the mind.
So to me, he's cheated. And it's just crushing me. I can't seem to look at him, talk to him, and he's very angry with ME. HE is angry, and that's even making it harder on me and hurting more.

So here I am. Hoping to find some ways to deal with this now.

Thank you for listening.

AS,

I'm not sure exactly how to approach this. I think you really have three things going on here.

1. Men masturbate. I believe that most doctors and psychologists would express the opinion that this is fairly normal behavior and that this is not, in and of itself, "having an affair". I'm not sure of the Christian implications here, so others would need to weigh in on that. Certainly, it would be good if he were to engage you in sexual fulfillment when he was feeling needy in this regard, however, I don't think it to be that unusual for this behavior (masturbation) to occur in general. I think that the two of you could use the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) and the Emotional Needs Questionnaires and figure these things out together.

2. The communication with his ex needs to stop. He should not be sharing this type of conversation with his ex during the night, especially when he would not share it with you. Again, the EN questionnaire would give you some insight into what needs are not being met for him, and help guide you into what you might look at for improving your relationship and filling him up in terms of meeting whatever need the ex seems to have stepped up to fill.

3. Sexual fulfillment must be an issue in your marriage that has changed for him and the two of you have not openly addressed it. While you have offered, there may be a changing desire on his part, or something he needs that he has not expressed. The EN questionnaire might help to open up a dialogue for you two on this topic. I wonder if he is wanting perhaps some variety, or excitement, that he isn't comfortable talking about? Maybe an open discussion with him along these lines, or perhaps you taking a different tactic in the SF department might help in this.

From my own perspective, I'm not so sure that he has had an "affair". I see that you are hurt, and bothered/distressed.

Hope this helps.

SB

not unusual at all. It is a normal thing...for MANY women as well.

In fact, I would say that more sex would lead to more masturbation.

Her H's comments about his ex were uncalled for and inappropriate.

I think you might want to talk with your pastor about this. Whiloe I do not believe in the use of "magazines" and such...thinking a thought (what you are calling lusting) and acting on that thought are entirely different...even from a Christian perspective.


http://www.geocities.com/dcheddie/lust1.html

I agree that he shouldn't be making comments about the bodies of other women.

Wrong on his part.

I think they really need to do some work here. He's showing lots of signs of needs in the SF dept that they need to communicate about.

aprilshowers: You're right in your understanding of what Jesus said about "lust in the heart." Your husband has cheated on you, at least by that standard. The fact that non-Christians (and some Christians, many of them male, oddly enough) disagree, is entirely a different issue, and not an argument I will enter. You asked as a Christian; I'm answering in the same vein.

I also know at the gut level how badly this hurts, how demeaning it is to you as a woman, and how devalued you feel. Having said that, you can still have the chance to recover your marriage by MB principles if both you and your husband are working together. If he's not willing to commit himself to change, you have to choose your own response and decide what you want to do next. What I chose for myself may not be right for you, but every woman in these circumstances has to make a choice eventually.

Read Stalwart's thread. It's in the first 5 pages or so. He determined to change. If your husband can do the same, your marriage can change, too.

A similar discussion came up sometime back. Someone, I believe MelodyLane, made reference to an article in which Dr. Harley stated that porn and/or masturbation are both harmful to a marriage. I happen to agree with that, although I cannot find the post or article now.

Melody, was that indeed you, and do you remember where that article is? If I recall, you made the point that he said masturbation is the misuse of something that should belong to the spouse alone, and getting an EN met selfishly.

BTW, I have never really thought the idea that "everyone does it so it's ok" is good reasoning. After all, the majority of people also cheat and lie.

Honestly, with the lack of fulfilling sex life with my FWW (which we are working on but progress is WAY too slow), I can't look at a semi-attractive woman without fantasizing about having sex with her. I'm sorry, I just can't. It could be any number of women - girls at the gym, a coworker, a friend, an in-law, it doesn't matter. Whoever I come in contact with.

I view it like this. Procreating is a biological imperative. It is programmed into men (and women too, although not as much). If my sex life with my spouse is non-existant, I subconsciously no longer view her as a viable mate. Subconsciously, I start looking for other potential mates and imagine what it would be like. Now, I know my own weakness, so I don't put myself in a position to act on anything. This is why so many men wind up cheating. Their sex life with their wife is lacking, and they think that they can resist temptation when they should really be avoiding situations where there would be temptation.

Basically, what you are talking about is natural. If you don't want your husband to think about other women (as much), I would suggest really working to improve your sex life and communicating what he needs to do to make you a more willing partner.

What is a guy supposed to do when his wife won't meet his need of SF? I seriously would not be able to function if I went for a long period of time without any.

The book Every Man's Battle by Stephen Arterburn addresses this problem better than anything I've read. I highly recommend it for anyone, and especially somone in your unfortunate situation. There is also an excellent book called Every Woman's Battle.

I'm very tired tonight, drained emotionally, but before I go to bed let me say, our sex life was VERY good. I never refused him sex, in the 10 years we've been together, and even in separation, unless I was in pain or extremely sick.

I enjoyed oral sex and he never lacked in that area.

There is nothing lacking in our sex life, that would warrant this, unless you call me not being willing to speak of or allow another woman in the mix.

He has told me that the times he has done this, were times he was angry with me. He states it's only been 2 times, but there's no way I can know that.

When I first met him, he had a box of x-rated books in his bedroom and several x-rated movies. That should have been my red flag, and I ignored it.

I'll post more tomorrow, but just wanted you to know that tonight.

see, I personally don't have a problem with the masturbation in and of itself. I do believe most people do it. BUT, it becomes a problem if it becomes and addiction OR replaces actual sex with your partner.

Him talking about other woman during foreplay is just wrong and twisted.

Talking to his ex is not ok either.

If he is thinking of you while masturbating or some celebrity that he is never going meet... no big. IF he is thinking of the girl next door... I'd be a bit concerned.

But you have other issues going on besides this I am guessing...

mlhb

My pastor...born again believer church..would argue this point.

I understand you have some real issues and your H using other women as props is not okay...BUT, I also sense that you have some real control issues that need to be worked out.

You clearly state that your H is not a Christian...my first question is why did you marry someone that doesn't share your religious convictions? If your H is not a believer, recognize that he does not look at this the same way as you. You are approaching this in a foreign language for him.

absolutely valid point medc, and we have been discussing that very thing in church the last few weeks.

mlhb

Your pastor is welcome to argue this point with Christ, then. I almost have to pity poor Jesus, Who didn't find out what His Father really thought about "lusting after a woman in (the) heart" before He went and opened His big ignorant mouth on the subject,and got that unfortunate piece of misinformation mistakenly included in Holy Writ!!

Only have a few minutes, have an appt. and will reply to what you said more when I return, but for now, one of the hardest things for me at this point is, his attitude toward the whole thing. Even IF he doesn't see anything wrong with it, or as big of a deal as I do, why is he angry with ME? Why does he keep telling me it's over and get past it?

Wouldn't love cover some of that? Wouldn't his love for me, even if he doesn't agree, allow for him to at least acknowledge that this is hurting me?

And even if others (ministers included) would argue against how I feel God sees this, to ME it's a very deep hurt. I believe that God understood women that way, and that's why it IS such a big deal to Him too.

One other BIG problem with us is, no matter what I say or how I say it, to him, everything is criticism. How can I get past that?

to me you do seem critical and controling...and I only read your words. Imagine what your H might see.

Here is what Dr Harley says about masturbation:


entire article here

Thanks! Yes, that is exactly what I was looking for, and it makes perfect sense to me. If all my SF comes from hubby, it is logical that will make him seem extra special to me. Being able to experience SF alone, would seem to make lovemaking with a mate more expendable.