well, he might do it when he is mad at her so he gets a release but he withholds sex from her? he probably also does it when she is mad because he knows she doesn't like it. i mean, they are separated if i read correctly, live in 2 different places. why tell her he is doing it except to get her mad. he could masturbate all day long and she would never know it.

also, april, you say you are mad he went out of town and didn't tell you. well, you are separated. i am sure he doesn't feel the need to tell you everything he does. if you were living together and working on your marriage that would be one thing, but you are not. and i am sure you do feel used during sex if you two are doing it and then he just brings you home. i'd feel used too.

of your own admission, you said our comments were based solely on what you have written here and that we don't know all of the facts so basically maybe we would be posting different responses if we did? that is what i get from that. melody is not being crass with you, if there is more we need to know, than you need to tell us so we can post according to all of the pieces. if there is nothing else we need to know than why even post the comment that you did?

mlhb

First of all - everybody - get past your issues over whether or not lusting and masturbation are forms of cheating. Get after the roots of what she's saying that marriage builders can help her with.

1. One-sided SF. This is a man who takes no time/effort to please his wife - it's all about him and his pleasure - the fact that he doesn't get pleasure out of pleasuring his wife is a symptom...

2. HIS pointing out that he's using magazines and self-stimulation WHILE HE'S ANGRY AT HER!! This couple has been married for 10 years and known each other longer than that. He's button-pushing. Keep in mind, she married him knowing they didn't share the same Christian values, but also that HE MARRIED HER KNOWING SHE DID HAVE CHRISTIAN VALUES.

3. Other button pushing (love bank withdrawals) include a lack of exclusiveness to the marriage, bringing other women into the marriage bed via conversation, and behaviors designed to add to her sense of insecurity in the marriage.

Regardless of how you feel about lust and masturbation, these other three points are violation points.

Please focus your efforts to help her on these, rather than just disagree on the thesis that Lusting after a woman in your heart is adultery.

April,

Here is a passage out of Corinthians that brings to a point the crisis in your marriage:


You chose to marry a natural man instead of a spiritually centered man. Now, you are changing the rules on him and he's "naturally" rebelling. I think Pep's suggestion of "The Power of a Praying Woman" is a good one. I think directly commanding that he change his values is not a good one.

If you search on the emotional needs board for "paper dolls" you may be able to find an essay on the topic of lust written by my husband, who goes on the marriage builder board as Kasey. You will find validation there for everything you feel, and if your husband had a spiritual center, what he would feel about violating his own spirit with his behavior toward you.

The root of the problem you are dealing with is that you have an empty love bank - it has been slowly drained for 10 years of marriage to a selfish man. And now, you are threatening divorce, something equally offensive to God as lust!

I can tell you how I worked my own recovery, if that would be helpful to you. But our situations are dramatically different in that Kasey suffers tremendously when he violates spiritual laws and your husband is not converted. But some of what I did would still help you.

Have you read the book, Boundaries, by Cloud and TOwnsend?

Just some information and thoughts.

When I think of H moving back in with me, I get very nervous and confused. On the one hand, I know it might be what we should do, if we want to really work on this, but on the other hand, I have so much hurt and frustration inside, and so many things are left undone and unsolved, that I'm not sure I could live with him again.

H has always taken a flippant attitude toward life, intimacy, and our relationship. I take our marriage very seriously. It's not that I'm not fun or let go and enjoy myself, I do, but the seriousness of the sanctity of marriage, is very important to me, since I know that Satan wants to destroy marriage.

I don't know how to handle this part.

When I approach him with concerns, he either jokes it off, or gets angry. This makes me feel VERY unsafe to come to him. This is NOT good for us, for me. I think that might be why I don't 'trust' him in general.

Wanted to add: I've also been depressed allot lately, for about 5 years off and on now. If I were not a Christian, I might not be here right now, this is how low I have gotten.

Sadly, I'm unable to take antidepressants, because of a heart condition. So I can understand giving up on life from one view, but my life is not mine to take, it's God's decision, so I would never do that, but I have been low enough to understand it.

And see, that's where I see it differently. To me, masterbation to any other woman (magazine picture or real) is putting his sexual thoughts on somebody other than me, and to me, that's cheating (cheating ME of exclusive sexual pleasure).

I agree whole-heartedly...but be careful, your words can come back and bite you in the a$$. About 8 years ago, i found an e-mail response to my husband...he was supposedly looking for ways to spice things up in the bedroom...I told him that when he viewed porn and masturbated, that I felt cheated on...because I felt cheated out of an exclusive relationship reserved for husband and wife. What he heard was an accusation from me that he was cheating.

What condition is that?

Pep

I hear what you're saying. And he by no means, agrees that what he did was infidelity. He HAS said that it was a mistake and it was wrong, and wont' happen again, but somehow I feel that he means it was a mistake to tell me, not do what he did.

And that he did this when angry with me, concerns me allot.

I've been known to say on this board that

I'm not saying to not care anymore. But rather, since your love bank is so depleted, do what you can to protect from further withdrawals.

Keep in mind, I have a Christian husband who shares the same values, so while it was difficult, you will have different difficulties.

When things were at their worst, I knew I wasn't free to stay, until I was free to leave. Freedom didn't mean permission to leave from my husband; rather it meant preparation for autonomy.

So I prepared. I worked on job skills first - it seemed that I was on a path to the sales profession, so I took some sales training. I worked on my income. I worked on meeting emotional needs for myself that had me complaining about my husband not meeting my needs. Needs like "Financial Support", "Domestic Support", "Admiration", etc. are things that can be met by myself - in fact, to some couples, meeting an emotional need for admiration, in someone who hates themselves, their looks, their very "being", the spouse will have an impossible time meeting the need for admiration.

And I prayed. I studied new skills like investing. I worked on my empathy. And God softened my heart and He met needs that Kasey couldn't meet. It's one of the great blessings of being a believer, and feeling God's love - there are emotional needs where He steps in and fills the emptiness.

If you stop looking for your husband to meet your emotional needs, chances are you will be less critical of him and more patient, which will allow you to make deposits in his love bank. Chances are, his biggest emotional need is to feel admired by you. Look for those times when God moves on his heart and draw closer to him then. Admire the traits that drew you to him in the first place. Recognize those times he does kind and generous things. Let him direct the conversation. But leave with dignity to prevent him from making love bank withdrawals. Close the bank so to speak until the next opportunity to open it for deposits. Don't let that stop you from making deposits in his bank - just be careful.

Above all - don't invite confessions on topics that you know are raw for your spiritually. In fact, avoid movies or television shows on any topic that is a raw issue between the two of you right now.

Now is the time for you to become more of what God intended you to become. Not an evangelist to convert your husband by command, but attract your husband into a kinder, gentler lifestyle.

Pep, I have a very sensitive 'autonomic nervous system' and have tried 12 different antidepressants, from 3 different families, the SSRI's, Tricyclic antidepressants and MAOI's. Each and every time, they cause my heart rate to go dangerously high and my blood pressure to shoot up to stroke levels.

It was.

I am unfamiliar with a heart condition that would preclude the use of SSRI's. I am curious as to what is preventing you from taking one. I really would like that knowledge as I frequently talk about AD's.

that is a shame for you as SSRI's are actually used at times to treat this condition.

Exercise would be your best bet anyway.

Which he apparently felt that since I felt that way, and he didn't, he might as well go ahead and do the whole deed. About 5 years ago, he started acting very different towards me, and I began to feel as though he was involved with someone. I asked him several times. He never answered my question directly...and I began to be very suspicious that he was indeed having an affair. I began to investigate...I had very strong feelings that he was, but I needed absolute proof...Which took me 2 years ( he traveled quite a bit, which made it very convenient for them, She is from a different city, state...he met her in a chat room). I found video of him and her together...on a portable hard drive. That was 3 years ago. Nothing has changed. I tried to work thingout for the sake of our children (I don't think that they suspect anything), but it is time to move forward. I have an appointment with an attorney on Thursday...I'm going to file for divorce.

Read my reply to Pep above.

Just curious, which ones of the SSRI's have been known to be used for heart conditions? I've tried most of them, maybe it's one I haven't tried.

Have you ever been on a neuromodulator?

Pep

just do a web search for heart and ssri...you will come up with thousands of hits. Some good info from Mayo and other sites.

Have you ever been on a neuromodulator?

No, I have not. I just did some reading on it online, and it hit on something for me.

Years ago, I had a 24 hour urine test, not sure why now, but I remember the results came back questionable and it was suppose to be repeated. I lost my insurance, there were 2 deaths in my family, and it was forgotten.

Thinking now, this just might be something here. Many of the things I read, touch something inside my head, can't explain it too well, but with the histamine, serotonin, dopamine thing going on, it relates to many things that have happened in my life.

Any little bit of caffeine, cold meds, even a bee sting, sends my heart rate soaring and my blood pressure spiking. I tend to worry very much, constant thinking, going over, analyzing things to death and making myself a nervous wreck.

I have trouble now with people, feeling like I'm different, odd, and left out. Very low self-esteem, etc.

Many more things also, but you might have hit on something.

Tell me, are neurotransmitters a form of Amino Acids? Are they actually prescribed in a pill/capsule form, or are there many separate ones that you take as separate pills/supplements?

I'd be very interested in any information you might have on this!

Thank you!

Yikes! Most of the results I saw, seemed to indicate that the SSRI's can cause MORE problems with the heart.

I did find one site that had positive information though, but that's just one.