After thinking about this for a little while, I am looking for some suggestions.
1) If I was to confront this guy "friend" about the relationship with hopes of trying to let him know what's up,etc. What would I say and what would I hope to accomplish as a result of the converstation?

2) My wife has a mutual friend that is also a friend of this guy. The three of them are quite close and I know her quite well, she knows that we are having troubles in our marriage but I am fairly certain that she does not know the extent of the friendship between my wife and the loser. Should I talk to her?

3) My mother in law is pretty close to me and I think my wife has confided in her that we are having problems. I don't think that she has told her the whole truth about loser and if mother in law knew the whole story, I feel she would definitely confront wife about it. Do I talk to mother in law? If so what do I say?

4) 18 year old daughter who is the biological daughter of my wife and my step-daughter (not bio - explained in prior post) but by all intent and purpose she is mine. She has very high moral character and thinks the world of her mother but I do not think she would support her in this marital breakup (whatever that means) if she knew what the underlying issue was with this other guy. Do I talk to daughter?

At this point, we just decided to formally separate this morning and have told no one. I have not even spoken to my wife since we left the counselors office. We decided that I would stay in the house and wife would find alternate arrangements that are safe for our daughter to stay with her during her arranged time - 3 nights a week and every other weekend. She has until June 1 to find a place and so until then we just co-habitate and put on a happy face for the kids until then. Which is hard for me because I really want to knock her senseless (just kidding).

So at this point, I am looking for some advice on how to "expose" this affair under the circumstances. My mother in law is visiting right now as she lives across the country from us. We have no family locally. My group of friends is very limited.

WhatNext4Me

Gee I thought we already covered that.

Yeh your right. I guess I am just looking for a little help with the words, especially with the other guy. Not sure how to approach that.

Can someone point me to the Plan B "recipe" so I can review? I tried find but this site is so full of information, I could not seem to find it.

Dude, your wife is lying to you. I would be very surprised if she is not already F-ing this loser. She is saying exactly the same things my wife told me. I found out two days ago that my wife was F-ing her "just a friend" in my home while our two year old was there. She is addicted and will do anything to get her fix.

Stop enabling her. Are you familiar with Fog Babble? If not find the post (someone help me out, here), and absorb it. You'll start to see similarities I'm sure.

Expose swiftly and judiciously. I am struggling right now with the belief that if I'd done that sooner, I wouldn't need to get tested for STD's.

Take action. Your marriage deserves a chance to be saved, especially with a small child around.

Do what your kids can be proud of and stand up for them and your marriage. It is the most noble thing you can do.

I wish you well. You have an enormous talented and concerned support group here. We will help you.

You can do it!!

Peace

It's time to stop avoiding conflict and start doing some concrete actions to break of these losers. First of all, do some snooping to see if it is more than just emotional. Check her emails, text messages, journal, etc. Also print out a copy of her call log. Most people are naive enough to think that when a married woman and single guy call and text each other 50 times a day, that it isn't innocent. Then you tell EVERYONE about your WW's affair. Your family, her family, your friends, her friends, your children, your pastor - anyone in a position to pass judgment on your WW's actions. You can tell them that you suspect something physical, but even if it hasn't progressed to that, your WW has admitted to wanting to divorce you so she can "start" dating OM. Then you let the affair crumble under the pressure of exposure. You feel like you are done because you have sat there like a sad sap doing nothing all this time. It's time that you stand up for yourself and fight this battle.

Plan B does nothing if you haven't done plan A.

I am in no position or frame of mind to be nice to her so Plan A is out.

You need to decide. Are you fighting for your M, or not? If not, then you continue as you have, you're on the divorce path, just continue on.

If you want to fight, then you either hang here and implement the MB plans, or you find another plan that you feel is better.

What I don't get is why you haven't got down and dirty and FOUGHT for your marriage?! EXPOSE THIS A! Its not going to hurt the children, at least no more so than a D is going to! They're going to have to know the truth at some point anyhow.

And accept that your WW is having an A. Definitely emotional, quite probably physical. IT DOESN'T MATTER if she accepts that definition! She does not have to acknowledge reality for it to be reality. The truth is not dependant upon her accepting it!

STOP being afraid of your WW's anger! She's got you sound turned around in your head that you can't see reality either! Its called fog, and you are BOTH in it.

Look, I was there to some extent to. I know where you're at. It took a few folks here kicking me in the [censored] to do what needed to be done.

PLAN A. Stop talking divorce. Stop enabling her A. Bring reality crashing down with exposure, to your D, to her mother, to OM's GF or W (quite likely he is not divorced or separated, find out for sure!). You're late to the game my friend, time to get your act together and start doing things that may help your situation.

Consider yourself kicked.

If it helps, think of your child every time you have to hold your nose and be the caring supportive husband and father that she DOES NOT deserve right now.

If nothing else, you will stay on the high road.

If your marriage does fail, you will not have to live with the guilt of not trying harder, and it will set a fine example for your kid. They deserve for you to try.

Be strong brother!

The older girl deserves to know the truth. I wouldn't even define it as exposure--because you're her parent too. Young people need context to make sense of their lives and without it; she's going to be adrift. Have a frank and respectful talk with her b/c it's the right thing to do.

You didn't sign on to be your wife's co-conspirator. The degree of exposure is within your control but it sounds as if you’re feeling co-opted, and that's beating you down. It’s not your job to protect her from her own poor choices. Lift that burden off from your shoulders--its way too heavy a weight to carry around. Certainly, your MIL should know--she's your family too.

I’m not sure why you’re putting so much stock in your wife representations about the affair. The common denominator in all active affairs is deceit. The one universal is that she will define the affair in a manner that causes her the least harm. All the counseling you have done while not worthless (for you) is just diversionary fodder for her. She doesn’t want to improve the relationship--she just wants to blank the OM, except you’re in the way. I know it’s probably hard for you to see right now, but her choices have nothing to do with you. True, they affect your status as a husband but not your essential being.

Thank you Brix, that's likely one of the nicest way's that it could be put to me and make sense.

I have decided I do not plan on any sort of Plan A or Plan B. The marriage is worth fighting for but I have no fight left. I have been decimated by the events fo the last 18 months. I have no fight left. I will talk to my oldest daughter and my mother in law but not to try and end the affair but just to make sure that they know.

I am going to just walk away, become a statistic, be the best father I can be, find someone new who will love me and cherish me and not use, abuse and take advantage of me any longer. My wife will not change even if I expose this affair. Her needs cannot be met by me, him or anyone as far as I can tell.

I am going to focus attention on getting my life back in order, taking care of my kids, and finding someone who really appreciates me.

I have decided that this marriage is not worth it anymore. There is too much hurt, pain and suffering. Marriage should not be about that. She can not give me what I want/need and I cannot give her what she wants/needs. She knows exactly what I need and refuses to give it to me. I have tried very hard over the last 9 months to give her what she needs and it makes no difference. Yes it is because this loser is in the picture but regardless I am done giving and fighting.

I guess I will jump to the Divorced/Divorcing forum for support from them as I become a statistic.


WhatNext4Me

Ok after some more research on Plan A, it appears that I have been doing much of Plan A - the carrot, but have not used the stick as was suggested earlier. My question is this, we are close to formal separation, is it too late to expose and use the stick or is the timing just right. Do you normally do the carrot and the stick at the same time - there is where I get a little confused?

Reconsidering this whole giving up thing and trying to determine if I have a little more fight left in me.

WhatNext4Me

Look,

You are dancing around the maypole here. Your oldest daughter, your mother-in-law deserve to know what is going and what is going to happen, even if you don't want to fight for your marriage.

Simply put your W has chosen to be with another man over you. End of story. She has been shutting you out for roughly a year and it has come to the point that you and she have decided to separate. Tell BOTH of them this. Make sure YOU tell them, not your lying, cheating W. Ask for their help and prayers and then leave it alone.

Answer any questions openly and honestly if they ask.

The old saying the "the long journey is started with a single step." Applies here. Take this simple step NOW.

Get them both in the room and tell them what is happening, and what will happen and why.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks

I did that last night with mother in law. My wife opened up to her and told her about a "friend" but did not tell her the entire story. I then told mother in law my side of the story and perception of everything. She now has both sides - mine and my wife's. I need to wait to talk to older daughter until wife and I have had a chance to talk to her (which we mutually agreed) and tell the kids that we were separating. Once that discussion happens, then I can have a frank conversation with daughter and give her my side of the story.

My mother in law said she is going to talk with my wife today. So please pray for me and keep me in your thoughts today because it is going to be rough one for me. Wife is going to blow a gasket but i am ready. I know I did the right thing and in the right way. It was just a frank conversation that stated the facts and I even owned up to my part in it which is not meeting her needs so she seeked them out from someone else which is the truth but by no means an excuse.

let's see how this plays out.

WhatNext4Me

If you don't want to separate, don't tell them you are separating. Personally, I think you need to suck it up and plan A for a little while longer AFTER you expose to EVERYONE and then go to plan B if necessary. You need to try and cut off your WW's ability to contact OM and let exposure do it's trick. She has continue to be "friends" with OM because you have let her. See what exposure, clamping down, and some plan A thrown in can do for a month or two, and then go to plan B if you have to. If she continues to insist on sneaking around w/ OM, you document her failings as a mother to your 10 year-old, and you put yourself in a good position to get custody. The last thing you want is to separate and lose all custody rights to your 10 year-old. WSs are have a notorious sense of entitlement and will get all the they can, even if they agreed to 50/50 custody.

You needed to be firmer to begin with, but you can make up for your mistake now. The reason you want to give up is because you hate your WW because you ALLOWED her to walk all over you. Stand up for yourself and your family and I bet you feel much better about yourself and the situation which will allow you to plan A a little longer.

Also, when you talk to people about your WW's "friend," you should instead call him what he is, her "affair partner" or "boyfriend." There is no need for you to sugar coat it. Tell your daughter that "Mommy wants to separate from me because she doesn't want to give up her boyfriend. Daddy wants her to give up her boyfriend and work on the marriage."

I have not read your entire thread so please forgive if others have said this. From the early posts I got the impression that you had misunderstood the concept of boundaries.

Your boundaries concern you, not your wife.

Boundaries are the limits to her behavior that you will accept. They are NOT tools to control your W. She will respect them, or not. The focus in talking about boundaries is not on her but on you. YOU define what YOU refuse to accept. And then you plan what you will do if this boundary is broken.

Central to this concept is the realization that YOU can only control YOU. But she needs to know your boundaries so that she can choose to respect them, or not. Boundaries are not threats. They should be communicated calmly and respectfully.

The planed consequence to a disrespected boundary should not drive you into a one way street. The WS will often challenge a boundary to test you. If you don't want a D to be the next step then don't plan for it. If you are not really ready to go for the planed consequence then you will loose the "challenge game" and will have to back down. That would be poor service to yourself and the M. It is better to define consequences you really are willing to carry through with.



Example: "I can not control you. You will have to choose what you want. You are an adult and will make your own choices. But as an adult you also know that choices have consequences. You should know that I will not accept to live in an open M. And in particular; I will not accept that you being my wife ever again voluntarily communicate with NN.
If you will insist on the right to talk to him or meet with him then we must take the required steps to allow you to do so without being my wife.
If I find that you have met with him in secret then I will inform his W and both our families."

------------

Since I have not read all your thread I don't know how relevant this is to you now. Hope it will be useful. Good luck to your fight for a better M!

It has been a few days that I have posted but a lot has happened.

Long story short. We met with counselor and decide to separate since Wife is unwilling to stay within my boundaries with her "friend" on Tuesday. I of course lean on this board for support. My wife spends a couple of miserable days dealing with the consequences of her decisions. She calls me late Thursday to talk. i cautiously agree.

She spent the last three days figuring out what is important to her. She was backed into a corner during our session and made a hasty decision. She spoke to me like she has not spoken to me in a very long time. She made a list of committments, #1 was to give up her relationship with "friend", she assured me with deep conviction that there has been no PA and agreed that she was confiding in him when she should have been coinfiding in me so EA existed. She plans to follow through with my boundaries because she now knows that I am serious and knows exactly what the consequences will be. Bottom line is she gave me a heart felt "I'm sorry" and a list of all the things she is willing to do to prove to me that she is now 100% committed to the marriage. I responded cautiously optimistic, told her what I expected from her, told her that it took both of us to get us in the mess, I understand why she did what she did because I was not meeting her needs. I told her that if she feels that same way come Monday (tomorrow) that I will go into our counseling session and we can really start rebuilding this marriage. She says she is now 100% committed and both feet in the door.
She talked to her friend, told him that they could no longer communicate, talk, see each other or be friends. She gave me full disclosure to her cell phone records, email and promised that it is over with him. And gave me the old "it is over before it started". He was a filling a void that I was not filling and is now going to allow me to fill this void, I need to follow through on my part - meet her needs, stop love busting and rebuild.

We spent the next few days talking about what the future looks like and our plan to rebuild. I feel so positive about what the future looks like and really believe it this time. However, we ahve alot of work to do.

Thank you all for the support, listening and the advice. I have a lot to learn about boundaries and need to re-read HN, HN.

Thank you again and I have renewed hope for my marriage. The separation is off, the friend is out of the picture and now the hard work begins.

WhatNext4Me