One thing that MB posters see again and again is the wayward spouse "script". Waywards tend to behave the same way, even using the same phrases and same expressions. (For example, "I love but but I'm not in love with you" almost always means an affair.)

Your wife is behaving in ways that many posters recognize immediately, because they are so common among waywards.

I bring this up because you are wondering why she is doing this, and how she can be so hurtful. And the answer is, because she is having an affair. That's the whole reason. Affairs seem to twist otherwise good people around in knots, turning them into liars and cheats. It has been likened here to a drug addiction, in fact. It has also been described by many posters as an alien who has taken over your wife's body.

This is what folks mean by "The Fog". Waywards are apparantly unable to see clearly while having an affair.

None of this is personal... although of course it is very personal to you. But your wife is doing the same thing almost all wayward spouses do, and behaving in the same hurtful, irresponsible and callous manner.

Once an affair is over and the wayward spouse no longer has contact with the Other Person, the Fog will clear up. Many former Waywards here have written that they cannot believe some of the hurtful and mean things they said to their Betrayed Spouse. They are often bewildered at how they ever could have acted that way. And, sooner or later, a properly repentant former Wayward Spouse will feel incredible guilt about the way they behaved.

Don't expect any of that any time soon... but know that the person you love, the person you married and wanted to spend your entire life with is temporarily insane. If everything works out well, the affair ends and you reconcile... you'll see your wife again. Keep that in mind as you go through this.

Well yesterday was the worst day ever. The anxiety, fear, pain all hit at once. I was uncontrollably emotional. My wife and I went to our first MC session together. I told them all my fears and that it all comes together like an affair. The MC said that fear can make the mind think of these things. I also reiterated it last night that if you put all the happenings together it is obvious what it is. She asked me how she could make the fears go away. She wanted to take me to the apartment or I could go by myself. She said that all those things do look like some kind of infedilty and she would think the same thing too but she is not having an affair. So my wife and MC say their is no affair. I want to believe her but I can't right now. All the feelings I have been going through while putting all her actions together makes it all too obvious. I don't know what to do with these accusations. The only thing I have left to do is hire the PI. If she is in an affair then she is going to hide it more than ever. The PI probably wouldn't find anything right now.

The session was hard for me. She has so much resentment and anger built up from her family and I. I know she really wants to live in the apartment to work all her demons out. The MC didn't really say that she should do it but he didn't say no either. She said she didn't go to the apartment in the past because she saw how much it hurt me. She also was scared that I would tell the kids that it is all her fault. She thinks that things aren't progressing better because she didn't go to the apartment.

One of the things that I am torn with is should I keep coming to this site. I told her to quit communication behind my back but I am posting behind her back. I sometimes think that you guys are just a angry mob that has been hurt and live through other peoples problems to make yourself feel better. On the other had, I know you guys are trying to be helpful. So do I believe in the current MC's beliefs and put my full heart in it or do I stay here? Right now, I think I should try to work it out with my current MC. I know you want to help me but it is hard to do both the MC sessions and think about what you guys are screaming too.

Hi familyman,

I'm really sorry to hear about all the anxiety and pressure you are going through.

One question - this apartment. I had the impression from your earlier posts that this was a place your wife stays after going out all night. Is she in fact wanting to seperate and live apart from you and the kids in the apartment?


Look... you know what is going on. At the very least, your wife is essentially dating this OM. Perhaps your wife defines an affair as a physical affair only - but there is such a thing as an emotional affair, and they are just as dangerous to a marriage. And EAs turn into PAs eventually.

Your wife is "gaslighting" you. She is trying to make it look like you are the problem. She is trying to make you think your fears and jealous feelings are irrational. The truth is, her behavior is wrong. Married women do not spend all their time hanging out or going to movies with other men. Married women do not stay out until 3 in the morning with other men when their husbands have asked them not to. Married women who are mothers of four children do not abandon their families to live by themselves in an apartment so they can "find themselves". YOUR reaction - all the anxiety, all the jealousy, all of it - is NATURAL. HER BEHAVIOR is NOT.


She may try to drive her affair underground, but she has been openly out and about with this guy. A PI might find a lot... but even if you don't get any more evidence... you have a problem in your marriage. Your wife wants to be free to date this OM, and you are not cool with that. That makes it a problem, and any MC worth his salt ought to be after your wife to change her behavior, not after you to be more trusting.


It sounds like she wants to seperate and live in the apartment? Is that what she is saying?

Folks here will tell you that 99 times out of 100, when a wayward spouse wants to seperate, it is so that they can carry on the affair unhindered.


I've been posting to you because your wife's behavior is classic "Wayward Spouse". I don't want to see another husband gaslighted and tricked by his WW into accepting the situation and then finding out the awful truth only when she files for divorce and full custody of the kids. (Make sure you keep that journal, if she moves out she is abandoning the family.)

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't come here because I'm bitter or angry. I wake up every day grateful that my marriage survived MY bad behavior and survived my wife's being tempted by an ex-bf. I come here because my eyes have been opened to how important a marriage can be, and how easily it can be damaged or ruined by well-meaning but careless and thoughtless behavior.

Also... don't equate your coming here for advice to your wife talking to OM behind your back. Her motive for doing so is to carry on an extramarital relationship that is harmful for the marriage. Your motive for coming here is to seek advice for how to deal with a situation that is harmful to your marriage. Her behind-the-back communication is detrimental to the marriage, you are seeking to SAVE the marriage. She is keeping secrets, you are trying to find the truth about what is going on in your life and your marriage. They are not at all the same

I will say this... I think the most helpful thing you can do right now, more helpful than posting here or even hiring a PI - is to call MarriageBuilders counseling, and speak with either Steve Harley or Jennifer Chalmers (his sister). They are professionals, they deal with infidelity every day, they have a very high success rate, and they are considered national authorities in the field. I strongly urge you to call and talk to them. You can click the link below that says "Coaching Center" and set up an appointment. I really believe it will be well worth it.

All the best...

What you see an an "angry mob" is actually a whole lot of collective experience in these things. Yes, we tend to be a suspicious lot. That is because we have seen personally in our own experiences, and time and time again in others stories, that once someone actually finds this place, it is with good reason.

You are conflicted, because your heart and your mind are not in sync. Your MIND, it knows something is not right. It sees it, it sees the way your Ws words and actions do not add up. It sees the gaps in the logic. It keeps going over the problem, and there is just ONE real answer for it, but it is unthinkable, so you try to reject it, you try to think of other reasons for why things are this way. Sometimes you find something that MIGHT account for it, so you sieze upon it, but your mind keeps working at it, and that reality crumbles away as well.

Your heart, it doesn't want it to be true. Because, for it to be true it means that she has done something you thought her incapable of doing. If it is true, many of things you thought were real, many of the things you based your reality upon, are NOT true. It is a terrible adjustment.

You need to know, that if your W is in fact having an A, that she will do and say ANYTHING to keep you from finding it. The normal rules of conduct, honesty and itegrity, do not apply. She will lie to you, ugly lies, straight to your face, over and over again. She will prey upon your doubts and uncertainty to keep you off balance, to make you think something is wrong with YOU to think what you think.

It sounds to me like you have a couple different possibilities. You're a crazy, suspicious, jealous psycho husband. Or your W is having an affair and lying to you, the counselor, and everyone else. Which is more likely?

Realize also that MC has a terrible success rate. Many counselors are not very knowledgeable about infidelity.

You may not have the proof YOU need to acknowledge reality. You need to get it, because things are not going to make sense to you until you do. Your actions the past week have likely driven the A underground and it will be much harder to detect now. I did the same thing, my WW actually ended her A (the physical part), but it was 4 more months of crap until I finally found the truth, in the end primarily because I contracted an STD.

Hey familyman...

How are things going?

She is having an affair behind your back, you are trying to save your marriage. Do you see the difference?

1. adultery

2. save marriage

Are those 2 the same? What about those 2 are different?


It does make me feel better to help others, doesn't it you? When I see others attain a happy, recovered marriage just like me, it makes me feel REAL GOOD. REAL DAMN GOOD. I LOVE helping other people, not because I am "angry," but because I am a decent human being.

Helping others is a sign of decency, not anger.

Most of the folks who are posting to you have happy, recovered marriages and want to help you have the same. But folks aren't too likely to want to help you if you are going to dismiss them as an "angry mob." That is rude and ungrateful. People don't have to help you.

Something tells me we lost him.

I truly hope not. I'm not an angry person. I am the FWW and his wife sounds a lot like me during my wayward days. I do think that during the healing stages, it can hinder moving on to be on this board alot b/c it makes you think of all the "whatifs" b/c even though all cases have similar bone structure, they all have characteristics that are different that make you think.. 'hmm, did he/she do this, too??'

BUT, that said... it all the whatifs are what helps you to have an open & honest relationship.

I think his marriage counselor is ridiculous. Her behavior is not condusive to their marriage or family. Quite possibly the MC could have his eyes on her next. I'm a bit leary of opposite sex counselors, especially when cheating is involved.

I really hope that FM takes off his blinders and sees this as what it is. She's having an affair whether or not it's emotional or physical. Something has to change and unless he fights for what's rightfully his, he'll lose it all.

If she's not having a physical affair, Family Man can get alot of tips on what not to allow so that it doesn't lead to a PA from this site.

Cause, I would have given a million dollars to know how dangerous it is to have opposite sex friendships where the spouse isn't 100% involved in everything we did together. For instance,if wife & friend went to movie, ballgame etc... Hubby should be there, too... no matter what. If it's innocent, shouldn't be a problem.

Ok.. I've rambled and am all over the place.
Please take everyone's advice, Family Man. We're definitely here to help you b/c unfortunately we now know all the warning signs of cheating.

Oneflesh

Hey familyman,

I hope things are going OK for you. Please know that you're welcome back here at any time...

All the best,

Hello Friends,
I'm not sure what to say here. Please don't take offense that I sometimes feel like you are an "angry mob". I have read all your advice and like you have been through all the emotions. Sorry I lashed out.

On to my life. Last week was difficult but good. It opened my eyes that she may be cheating and made me aware to look at things in a different light. Since confronting her about her actions being very conducive to cheating in some way we have been communicating like a couple again. She has said and still says that there was no wrong doing txting the OM. Thursday and Friday we talked about it alot and I wouldn't let go of it. She seemed to be very understanding of how it looks and how I feel. Sometimes she did get a little defensive cuz I just wouldn't let go. She has offered me to look at her apartment and and her txt messages. I have refused because it's useless if she wants me to see them. I still am not completely satisfied but from all the she has said I am cautiosly optimistic. I know I can still get burned here but my eyes and ears are still open.

We had a great weekend. On Saturday, my wife put her laptop in front of me and had me read some exerpts from a book she had found. It said things like, does your wife say she is lost, has no purpose, pulling away from you, rewriting your history in a negative way, hanging out with younger people, said I love you but not in love with you, wants to move out to find herself,etc... She was very happy to show me a site about midlife crisis. The website is http://www.surviveyourwifesmidlifecrisis.com/. There is a video on the first page that mimics the last few months with my wife and I. You can also download the first chapter of a book called Surviving your wifes midlife crisis. In my case, the book is right on target with my wife. I purchased the book and have already read it. It has given me new life. My wife is very happy about it too. She said she felt like an alien having all the feelings but could not supress them. Then she said she was happy that other women feel this way. Still cautiosly optimistic but I do feel like I understand a little of what she is going through and how to combat it. Please don't think that I am pushing this book but it may help for some of you to download it and read. It may relate to what you have experienced too.

I'm not sure what kind of responses I am going to get from you guys but I will read all of them and I do thank you for posting in the past your feelings, advice, and experiences. You have not lost me but I am heading in a different way now. The principles that Dr. Harvey have make total sense to me and I do think if a couple embraces them then they are likely to have a great marriage. Maybe after I work through this supposed "midlife crisis" I will bring my wife to this website to learn Dr. Harvey's principles.

FM, thanks for the explanation, but feelings are not truth. I hope that you keep an open mind and evaluate the advice you get using your intellect, rather than your feelings. Judge the advice based on its merit, not your feelings.

Because your feelings are not truth and will lead you wrong every time, as they have here. If you dismiss posters who take the time and effort to post to you as "an angry mob" they are not likely to continue helping you. Nor should they.

Take care.

Well after the "angry mob" statement, I am very hesitant to post.

I am not "angry" whatsoever.

Before you write this all off as a mid-life crisis, do one thing.
** GET A SIM CARD READER **

Get your hands on your wife's cell phone and take the sim card out -- put it in the reader and you will be able to see a LONG history of all incoming and outgoing text messages. (even deleted messages)

Then you can judge the content of this "friendship".

Maybe its innocent, maybe its not. But since so much of it is occuring via text -- this is your way to see it.

Lexxy...

Does this allow you to see the content of the text messages?

Melody,
I stated in my post that it is just a feeling I sometimes get but I also stated that I KNOW you guys are trying to help. It is hard to look at the posts that my wife is some kind of monster. She didn't used to be this way so I am going to be defensive at times. Again, I am sorry about the statement but like you said it is a feeling not truth.

Lexy,
The PI mentioned that too. Her phone doesn't have a sim card. Wish it did. Still not totally convinced. I do check the cell phone records daily to see how much she is txting and it has gone down dramatically since I told her that she needs to stop.

Like I said my eyes and ears are still open. In fact, I ordered a background check on the OM this morning. Apparently, he likes to drive fast.

familyman,

I've tried looking at the site you mention, and am having trouble reaching it... but I'll look it over when I can. Sounds interesting...

From what I've seen, I think that a lot of the time a midlife crisis includes an affair, so I still think you should keep your eyes and ears open. I see you are doing so, with the background check on OM.

As for "angry mob" - I understand that last week was very emotionally trying for you, and that you felt extremely stressed out when you posted that comment. No hard feelings at all on my part.

As for the apartment... was your wife intending to move out, or just use the apartment to get away on weekends and stay overnights?

Cuthbert --

FYI -- yes it allows you to see the content of deleted text messages. It would most likely contain a several month history of incoming and outgoing test messages.

familyman, it's entirely possible she's going through midlife crisis; it's very common once the kids are grown for a woman to realize she just spent 20-30 years defining herself through her H and kids. And it's entirely possible she didn't realize the danger of getting close to someone of the opposite sex. But I think everyone just wants you to be careful and make sure.

Also, if the marriage wasn't being protected by both partners, it could start looking like a pretty puny marriage. The good news for that is that it is something that you have great leverage over! As in, start following MB today by eliminating ALL LBs and meet ALL her ENs (but first you have to find out what they are by communicating better). Let her realize she can still have the life she dreamed of at 16 while she is WITH you.

Cuthbert,
The website requires you to download the first chapter of the book. The main website is www.pathpartners.com. There are forums there too. The men's forum is full of men that have WW but because of the supposed midlife crisis. The women's forum is very interesting.

Yes, my wife was going to move out. The book I mentioned talks about why a woman would want to move out.

Thanks for understanding. Last week was absolutely terrible.

I looked over that site, very briefly. Do any of the women on the women's forum come out of the MLC with intact marriages? Or the men?

Is your wife still planning to move out?

All the best in the choices you make in your situation. If you keep posting here, I'll be happy to keep up with your thread. And make sure you take care of your kids and yourself if your wife decides to move out and "find herself." She may be going thru a mid-life crisis, but your kids need a stable home (I don't know how old they are, I'm assuming they are all at home.)

She may indeed be going through a mid life crisis, and your marriage may have a chance to recover from that once her infidelity stops.

Hi familyman,

I looked over that forum. Looks like the women on that site are going through some very confusing times. If you wife showed you that site and that book, that might be a good sign for you and for your marriage. I caution you to be wary of an affair, though, and to keep in mind Plan A and Plan B as strategies to cope with infidelity.

Looks like you're in for a whitewater ride. Let us know how things are going, OK? And when things calm down, as you said, show your wife Dr. Harley's books - the MB methods are very good at bringing back the "spark" and the in-love feeling to your marriage.

All the best...