I just remembered why I had the 24 urine test. It was to rule out a possible adrenal tumor.

April,

Okay, I still stand by my first post.

You just chose to ignore the POINT.

Like I said, I don't necessarily know the deal with the Christian issue of masturbation.

HOWEVER!!!!!

You and your husband should use the

POJA method to work together and figure things out.

See, it doesn't mean anything whether or not *I* care or consider the masturbation issue an affair.

It matters what you and your husband can do to work it out.

The solution you are looking for - you keep asking the question "But what do I do NOW????" - was in the first post I gave you.

POJA

POJA

POJA

Read that concept and put it into action.

I sense that you two probably need that in your sex life as well. Because while you stated a few times that you have a perfectly happy sex life, IMHO you don't sound like YOU are perfectly happy in it. Your posts kind of changed on that, after a bit, and you opened up that he doesn't attend to your needs quite the way you would like him to.

That is NOT a "perfectly happy" sex life, April.

That is an Emotional Need going unfulfilled - and again, I refer you to my very first post.

You need to fill out the EN Questionnaire and figure out what is going on.


You might just figure out what is happening in your marriage. What you are filling up in him, and why that phone call with the ex-wife went on for so long. Maybe there is a need in him for conversation that is going unmet. I don't know, but I would be willing to be that if he filled out that questionnaire for you, it would give you a place to start.

And I whole-heartedly agree that the LoveBusters book is probably something you would want to look for. I can see a communicative style about your posts that you might want to check out.

Go back and look at your posts. There is a lot of good advice that you tended to ignore. You washed over it as though it was not there, and GENERALLY SPEAKING (I say this because of a tendency on your part to look for specificity - don't do that right now - look for generalities in your posts!!!!!) GENERALLY SPEAKING I saw two trends:

1. A tendency to defend your points, and ignore the poster's attempts to advise you, or point you toward ideas or solutions. You tend to go back "on point" or "on message". For example, you have made it very very very clear that you feel A) masturbation is an affair, B) it is against your Christian beliefs, C) you do not feel that you have made ANY mistakes in your sex life with your husband and have fulfilled his EVERY wish, etc. Look back - note your defending, and note your lack of response to the attempts to guide you toward:

POJA
EN Questionnaire
Plan A
Plan B
Your husband's point of view


2. A tendency to really like it when someone agrees with you. While this does feel good, and can help you boost your "side", it is also very important to understand that when it comes to recovering your marriage it will take compromise and the ability to understand your husband's "side" as well. You will need a very huge helping of the ability to CHANGE yourself, which involves recognizing what YOU are doing wrong within this relationship. That involves listening to people who do not agree with your points - mainly, your husband in this case. The posters here who do not agree with you just might happen to reflect his viewpoint. That should be seen as HELPFUL to you, April. Why? Because if you can come to at least understand what they are saying, it could bring you to a point of understanding your husband's POV as well. I am NOT saying you need to AGREE with them - but UNDERSTAND it, yes. Because if you do not, then POJA will not be possible with your husband.



You will like POJA. It will reduce conflict, and remove the pressure you are feeling to control your husband. It will also go a long way to relieve your anxiety.

Schoolbus

April - you've really alienated your husband.
How did that happen?
If you say "I don't know" ... then we have no starting point.

What makes you difficult to live with from his perspective?

Pep

How often do you approach your husband (with an issue) where you begin the conversation by telling him what he did that pleased you?

How often do you let him know you are thankful he is in your life and you are grateful for his efforts as your man?

How often do you look him in the eye and softly say: "Hey sexy man, want an ice cold drink? A soothing shower? A warm body next to yours?"

How often do you approach your husband with ideas that are designed to make him happier? Designed to make him feel good about himself?

When was the most recent time you bragged about your husband to someone else?

Pep

PB - Do wives really do that? Mine doesn't (but I wish she would).

Only the smart wives ....

Nice of you to think that I alienated him.

Things I need to work on:

jealousy
worry
calling him so much
losing weight

[Slightly O/T] Thanks to Mel's and Brix's earlier posts, my DH now goes around all day long offering to "deposit some love units in our marriage". [/Slightly O/T]


April, your actions that have alienated your husband are a completely different subject than his choices. He is not masturbating and looking at porn, or selfishly pleasing himself instead of lovemaking, because you have alienated him. Those are his choices, and only he can own them.

But before you reach a place where you want to just give up because things haven't gotten any better, I hope you will explore what is being shared with you. I'm sure that under the circumstances, you feel very sensitive to any perceived criticism, and this will be hard to do without feeling defensive.

However, I assure you after several years of association with many of the very nice people who have been on here, that everything that is being said is with the intention of helping you, and benefitting your marriage. I don't always agree with Mel, Pep, Schoolbus, or others (though the majority of the time I do), but each one has very valuable things to say.

Since you can only fix you, it is important to examine yourself very carefully for flaws, work to correct them, and then see how your H responds to the changes. To whatever degree you have contributed anything to the estrangement in your marriage, and without assigning blame, fix what you can.

Revel in the things you do well, and there are many of them, and the rest, learn to do even better.

Neak,

You're always supposed to agree with me. I thought we had a contract of some sort.


april,

I'm glad you're taking action on the ENQ. If your H will not fill it out for you, I would suggest you fill one out and take your best shot at figuring out how HE would fill it out, and go from there. Use your best thoughts, and then go about trying to fulfill his EN's as best you can from that.

Fill out your ENQ and give it to him, whether or not you believe he will do anything with it.

You CAN do this one-sided. Use POJA anyway. The important things to remember is that you need to make decisions as a team. If he isn't enthusiastic about them, you need to accept it. Come up with a different idea, or another way to handle it - until you both agree. Just because HE doesn't think he wants to utilize the ideas and concepts, doesn't mean you cannot begin the activity of putting them into motion on your part - because they are simply good marital practice, and make for less arguing.

His idea of lovemaking, and the fact that he cannot please you is getting to the heart of the matter.

I need to focus on that for a moment. My field of expertise is communication.

Your husband has essentially told you that he is NOT happy with your sex life. While you believe his message is that he IS happy, I am here to tell you that he is NOT.

Now, you're asking me why I say that.

Here's the answer.

When you responded to me about the situation where you please yourself - and your husband said something to the effect of "Why should I try, you do such a great job of doing it on your own?" - he is telling you something.


He is telling you that he feels unfulfilled in the exchange of lovemaking. He feels inadequate, in that he cannot fulfill your needs. This type of statement, phrased the way it is, is specifically worded as a jab at you, yes. However, it is also meant to point to the speaker's feelings of need, hurt, and in fact open the conversation to the listener (YOU) to ask the next question.........but you DIDN'T ask it.


"Is there something more you need to tell me about my self-gratifying during our lovemaking?"


Because in reality, he DOES have something to say. From the snippets of conversation you have related, my "read" on this is that you really do not have a perfectly great sex life. Sure, there may be climaxes for you both. But that is NOT the end-all-be-all where sex is concerned. There is much more to being sexually fulfilled than an orgasm. I think he is telling you that, and that you know that.


You asked that I expand on your communicative style. From reading your posts, you have said that your husband has tuned you out. You have also said he wants you to "let it go", and that you yourself say that you tend to worry about things - which makes me believe that small things probably bother you and that you carry them too far, picking them over until your husband (whose style is different from yours) cannot bear to hear anymore about it. Thus, he does tune it out - because he has reached a point where he believes that too much of the conversation will now be these small things, and not enough of it pleasant, uplifting, positive, fulfilling, and relationship-building. My suspicion is that he now is at the point where when you come to him to "talk", his reaction in his mind is that there is to be another "lecture" about something he has done - major or minor - and he does tune you out.

That is not to say that he hasn't done anything, or that you don't have a point.

It's just that there has to be a meeting of the minds, and a meeting of styles of communication. The body language you have related between the two of you tells me he does not even want to engage you anymore. The body language you describe is distancing, evading, avoiding, and used by people who just do not want to listen anymore.

HOW do you change that?

Let me see if I can find the old post on body language for you. Also, an old post on the "rules", so when you do talk to him, you have some way to make him feel safer.

Also, I do hope you are reading up on Plan A.

SB

april,

I bumped the thread on body language for you.

Use it.

In there, you will also find some rules for your chats.

Reading it now ... will return in a few and reply to your post.

Thank you

I just started walking today. Did 1/2 mile this morning, and will continue each morning for now, work up to 1 mile hopefully, and more as time goes on.

Come out! Come out! Wherever you are!

Pep? I'd really like to have more information on the neuromodulator, if you have it.

Thank you

SB - I had forgotten about The Contract - my bad!

Danger danger Will Robinson!

April, I read through your whole post and thought to myself, wow, that used to be me prior to my husband walking out. BTW, I've been married for 30 years and we're fully recovered now.

It's not all about him and it's not all about you. It's about you as a couple. You guys seem to be stuck in the old cycle, well I will if he will just... or I won't because she won't... and on and on. Prior to our meltdown, for lack of a better word, I could have told you a million and one things that were wrong with my husband and what he was lacking. He let me down all the time, in little ways and big ways. But I was always trying... Sure, I made mistakes... but dang it, nothing like him! I was so tired of fighting him all the time and trying to BEND him to my will.

I. Was. Wrong.

What I didn't get is that in a long-term marriage, there will ALWAYS be something that the other person does that annoys you, big and small. But the thing is, you can NEVER control what the other person does, no matter how much you try to sweet talk or stomp your feet. The other person in the marriage will do what they want because they want to. The key is that you control what you do. It's amazing how once you settle in your heart that a) you really do love your husband, faults and all and b) that you're going to be the best wife you can be, that things start changing. His response to you starts to change. Your respect builds, his admiration builds. It wasn't until we got to this point, that we could really trust each other enough to be honest about our needs.

It took my husband walking out the door, having two affairs, and a lot of other horrible things for me to wake up.

I said danger earlier because I see you pointing out all of his faults and none of your own. There has been so GREAT advice given to you followed by your yeah buts.... Stop and listen what has been said to you. Since you're a Christian woman, why not start praying for your husband? Daily?

The masturbation, whether right or wrong, and your reaction to it, are both symptoms of something bigger. What is it? Are you willing to reach deep inside YOURSELF to figure things out? Posting on here and then running to your husband to SHOW him what he's doing wrong... is wrong. No wonder he doesn't want anything to do with YOUR solutions.

Start with you. What can YOU do to be a better wife? One of you has to begin. Or you can just continue on and watch your marriage die.

Thank you for posting.

I want to say tonight, right or wrong, I'm very very down, sad and just extremely tired.

I'm not sure I want to or can work on this anymore.

I'm being honest here. I'm not saying I have no faults, God knows I personally feel I have SO many faults, that I feel like crap, I'm just saying that I'm so confused in my head, that as I said in my first post, I'm frozen.

Yes I've made mistakes, many many of them. Yes I have faults, many of them. Yes I've hurt my husband, I don't deny that.

I'm just saying that he has said and done some things that I'm not sure I can work through, I just don't know if I can.

Also, I just don't know why, but I can't seem to deal with the fact that he talked to his ex. I think it's because I all ready feel so insecure with him, and that he seems to care less whatever agreements we make and push my feelings aside as if they weren't there.

I'm not sure I'm explaining myself well, but I feel beaten down, exhausted and wounded beyond repair.

I don't know what else to say, I need help with this, and I'm just not sure how I can get past some things.

I just wanted to add, that my husband never did seem to care how I felt about things, from the beginning. I believe that's why I'm feeling so upset and sick about the 'ex' thing.

I gently told him how much it upsets me that he talks to her for long periods on the phone, and he just got angry and yelled that he'll talk to her anytime he wants.

Even if we DO agree on something together, he'll do what he wants anyway, and almost seems like it's sometimes on purpose. I feel so out of control in so many areas of our relationship, that I'm losing faith in us, in him, and in my ability to do much more.

So I guess what I'm stressing here is, I know I can only change ME, but I'm so tired inside, that I'm not sure I can do anymore right now, or if I want to.

If there are those of you who have the patience or experience, that may be able to see me through this, I can try. I'm just overwhelmed with exhaustion, and want so bad to have him understand just how much his pushing my feelings aside, is tearing me apart.

April,

I know the beaten down tired feeling. I lived it vicariously through my mother, then found it showing up in my own marriage.

Did you read my previous post on this thread - just before the medication discussion began? You didn't respond to it so I'm thinking it probably got missed in the flurry of posts...