Hi ears, I just wanted to let you know that I'm here and I'm reading. I just don't have any words of wisdom.

I'm glad LA is helping you see things and remember things. I need refresher courses all the time!

If H said he's tired of seeing you unhappy, do you think you are learning to be more positive about things? I'm glad you answered the way you did, focusing on the positive.

No good advice, but something I keep thinking when I read your thread is that it seems like your H tries to control y'all's lives by saying your unhappiness displeases him. As in, if you really loved me, you'd start being happy on purpose. Or at the very least, stop letting me know you're unhappy.

Which is one of those pesky abusive personality techniques. Not saying your H is, just that it is a method that he seems to use to get what he wants - which is inertia. Every time you try to move forward, he seems to tell you you're making him unhappy by YOU being unhappy, and therefore you should stop and just be happy with what you get.

Does that make sense? I have no suggestion, just that observation, because it scares me that if he does it enough, you'll give in and stop and settle.

Jayne, thanks so much for being here. You have been so inspiring to me over on the toolstolife site, too, and I thank you so much for that.


I think he meant he's tired of going to MC. He said that there is a lot of good going on, like how we fight so rarely now, probably much less than most people. If I knew of another way to reach him about Rule Of Protection, I would be enthusiastic about doing that instead of MC. I have been O&H about this with him, yet he keeps making the same choices.

For example, his trip last fall to the Florida Keys with his buddies, I told him that I feel disconnected and disrespected when he takes these trips and then says that we can't afford to take trips just the two of us. Because he shares a room with the other guys, so the trip costs less. This may just be an excuse, because his buddy trips are drinking trips, and our trips, not so much. I told him that if it was financial, I would prefer to take trips half as often, but us both go. He is not enthusiastic about that. He says that if I told him that I would give HIM a hard time about it, then he would not go. But he says just saying that it hurts me is not a reason to him not to go.

I'm not saying that to complain, I'm saying that is the behavior that I am looking to find a resolution to, and I hope MC would help with that. I understand that I can only change my own behavior, but I am hoping that be communicating this better we can find a solution.

Thanks, cat, for the observation. I have let myself get intimidated, choosing to back down back when the board was down and I was emailing you. He said that he was onboard with counseling then, because I asked him to leave, but then blew up at me when I brought it up again, and I dropped it. I know that he's in a lot of pain, too, and that's why he behaves like that. I have compassion for that pain, but I'm not doing him any favors by letting the LBing hold us back.

I am hoping that the MC will give him the tools to listen to his anger and use it as a signal instead of something to use to attempt to alter our behavior.

I thought of more acts of affection...

Smiling
Winking
Dip of the head towards me in concert with smiling or winking
Also in concert...sighing while smiling
Laughter, to me, is affection...if it's not from mockery

Acts of service feel like affection to me:
Bringing me a glass of ice tea...just asking if I want any
Saying at anytime, "I want to do that for you"
Opening a door
Helping me on with my coat (LOVE that)
Hanging up my coat

Now...about him hurting from your unhappiness. I agree with Cat/Jayne ('cuz I love the way they think)...there's a control issue wrapped within this...always parts of other stuff combines into bigger stuff...

His pain also comes from FOO, from "you can't tell me what to do", which is part of FOO...and believing if you're happy or unhappy, he's the cause...not within your control...none of it.

I say all this from my DH...this was his trick...only silently. His was a semi-annual outburst over something I asked as last straw..."You won't be happy anyway so why should I?"

Trace of truth within the DJ...shed light on his experience...not all me, not all him...

When I told him last Fall how I'd love for him to meet my EN of admiration (printed out a post from a man who left post-its with tiny messages for his wife)...he didn't pop off with that old answer. In fact, he said, "I know you'll be happy, anyway, but your love bank won't be as full." Which is true...my happiness isn't based entirely on my love bank...and vice versa.

And no, he isn't doing that. He chose to give me a compliment a week, instead. First he said daily, then weekly...and no, we're at about once a month...which is more than when I asked for it.

I'm not unhappy--I'm intrigued...working out the MB guidelines in my marriage...relearning and discovering more...not unhappy.

About SoCal...are you acknowledging his stuff? "I know how deeply you desire to live in SoCal. I'm thinking how much fun we could have there if we plan for it now for your retirement. I don't want to deprive you of anything...and I appreciate deeply you looking out for our family's stability more than your urge."

That's when he would bring it up before, and you wouldn't back down. Don't forget your honest appreciation.

Now that the partial probe trip is out there...won't work. Draw your line for the stability of your family..."I know you may choose to go to SoCal this summer even though I'm nowhere near enthusiastic about it. Just wanted you to know that I will be keeping DDs here, for continuity."

When you don't know what you'll choose if he chooses to...

Say that. Honestly. You don't know what you don't know...because he hasn't chosen his actions yet. Reasonable, respectable and real. You don't live in "if's"...you live in this moment.

Gotta ask one more time, EO...(you know I'm a harpy)...how many hours per WEEK do you spend in UA time together, playing?

Consider that he won't have the desire to go off to "play" with the buds if he plays a lot, weekly, with his best playmate...you. Let your inner children play together, so your adult selves will negotiate from the stance of allies, not enemies.

Make it so, Number One.

(GeekHarpy)

LA

LA, I love how you're so open to affection, finding it in lots of places I feel those deposits, too, a cup of coffee, a "thanks" for a good dinner.

That's really cool how you go to observer instead of participant. I'm working on that, too. That hopper

I have discussed retirement. H said that he's 50, it's either now or never, which I filtered as a conversation ender. Kept talking anyhow, about how I envision retirement, rocking in the rocking chairs together

We signed DD12 up for a two week sleepaway camp with her manager already, which I am cool with. I am prepared to explain I would like DD12 here with me before and after that.

I'd say we're up to at least 10 hours a week of UA time. We're morning folks, so we get up together before the kids do, and then have lunch together. We're starting the after dinner and weekend walks again, and even had date night last week. We're doing more fun weekend family time, too.


LA, I'm not taking that on my shoulders. Thursday, he's going out to the bar with his buddy. It's a big step in the right direction that he planned it and told me ahead of time. Instead of manipulating something like being stuck late at work and then, since he missed dinner with us anyhow, he's going to go meet up with Buddy.

I spend time with him as a separate thing than trying to replace his Buddy time. Not mine to fix.

I can only get close to a point, where I don't ask things that are a stratch.

That is huge! That shows good, strong trust. Good job!

Thanks, cat, for the encouragement It amazes me how we a re new every day. We've been working on the morning routine with DD7, and we've found a routine that's really working. It felt really good to work towards this goal this with DD7 and really getting there with no stress. Actually, what I did was find a pedometer. Thanks, jayne, for the idea She is so excited to get her 10,000 steps that she is HAPPY to take her plate to the sink and go brush her teeth. She ate breakfast this morning marching in circles LOL.

And then a surprise, H called me to tell me that he loved me once I got to work. That is SO huge to me.

How are you doing today, hon?

There was something yesterday that I've having confusion thinking through. Yesterday, I went home to have lunch with H, and a female coworker called. I answered, and instead of asking how I was doing before asking for H, as usual, just asked to speak to H. I gave it to him, and he laughed and said, "Don't tell Ears!"

After they hung up, I lightly asked what it was that he didn't want her to tell me. He said that she jokingly asked, "is that your girlfriend?" I said something general like, oh, that makes sense. But I was very confused and didn't know what to think.

I don't think this is funny. I got a pit in my stomach. I've never worked at a place that joked about this stuff. Either she does think he has a girlfriend, and that's why she didn't say hi to me, or she was just too busy to say hi to me and made an innocent joke.

Unless there are other signs, it was probably an innocent joke. But trust your intuition - so often we can't put our finger on anything but our subconscious knows something isn't right.

I'm glad you explained your previous post - I was bewildered last night! I fell asleep trying to figure out whether I was so tired I couldn't remember whose thread I was reading, or whether I was reading something I'd posted, or whether maybe your H had signed onto your thread and was posting a note to you.

I like the idea of crossing out remarks rather than deleting them. I'm easily confused (LOL) and deleted things are crazy-making.

Re. the other post about the badminton folks, by the time I got my thoughts in order I didn't want to TJ anymore. But, thanks for the comment, I hadn't yet thought of it like that. I can see how that would be "giving away your power". Of course no one has forced him to adopt one or another set of beliefs.

As far as I know he doesn't think of it like that, that was just how I phrased it. He's only mentioned the badminton story to me once. That was when he and I were attending a home small group - Bible study - we were going through the Purpose-driven Life. Neither of us really felt like we fit in, or were even welcomed. In fact those people were pretty rude to us while making friendly noises, KWIM? The sort of things that especially women are so good at? Except I never learned how to do it or defend against it, I was too much of a tomboy and social misfit.

So in that context he told me the story of his experience as a kid, with some other "church people" he thought were being deceptively friendly. For all I know it was a passing thought to him. I didn't mean to imply that those people determined his beliefs for him. But that incident has shaped his opinion of church people.

By the way, it was pretty amazing of him to be willing to go to that Bible study with me anyway.

Ok, thus ends the TJ of your thread in order to respond to a TJ on someone else's thread.

I hope I didn't sound flippant. Do you feel like there's reason to be concerned? Do you know this woman who called? Does she call your H often? Does she usually at least say hi to you?

The phone call thing yesterday kicked me where I already know I'm falling short. There's plenty of smoke, and I do very minimal checking. He's repeated these "jokes" from other coworkers, not this same coworker, before. He says two coworkers are convinced taht he has an OW out in California because he's always trying to get sent out on business to their client's California office. This lady who called yesterday usually asks me how I'm doing, how the kids are.

I have three good friends over the years who've told me they don't think H is faithful. I hadn't shared my concerns with them, but on their own they shared that different things struck them as off. His behavior isn't mine to own, but I'm very slow to verify.

DD7's girl scout meeting was cancelled, so I asked H if we could all meet with his buddy for dinner. He sounded EXTREMELY uncomfortable and then said no, that his buddy wouldn't like that. I haven't seen this buddy since I ran into him in town in December, and almost wonder if H is trying to hide something.

So this afternoon I reluctantly took a look at the cell bill, but I feel in over my head there. He works from home a lot, so there are lots of calls to the same few numbers, many times a day. May well be work related.

No jayne, I didn't find you flippant. Thanks for being here I know how time's at a premium for you!

Sure was! Thanks for clairfying the rest, too. I see where I'd projected some, too, when I read nia's post back.

I don't want to alarm you. But if you are getting the feeling that something isn't right, you should check into it. I remember you've mentioned something like this before. Again, it was something that very well could have been innocent. But if these things keep adding up, you should check them out.

We used to be friends with this other couple. They also were long distance at the same time we were - except they were just a couple hours apart during the week, due to his school. It seemed to me like they had the best marriage around, in spite of that. (Probably not by MB standards tho!) Shortly after he went back to school so they were apart during the week, they started joking about him having a "girlfriend." I chalked it up to, they are so comfortable with each other that they can joke about things like that.

Next thing I knew, well, you guessed it.

These three friends, did they say anything specific? If more than one good friend is telling you this, I'd look into it.

Could you just drive by where he's supposed to be meeting his buddy? Is his buddy married?

Are there any phone calls late at night?

Do you have access to his email etc? Have you checked credit card receipts?

My friends were not really specific, just told me they thought he was doing something on the side and asked me what I thought. My neighbor said she asked because H was hypercritical of me and that was a pattern she'd seen in friends who dealt with infidelity. My other two friends were sure he was doing something on the side when he took a few exploratory trips alone to Vegas and SoCal when I was pregnant with DD7. They thought I was very ignorant not to suspect H after that. That's when he first started to talk about wanting to move, too.

I asked H where they were going, and he said he didn't know yet, and then called me back. I don't remember what his buddy's car looks like, and the kids would know if I left, but we're out of milk, so i could tell them I'm going to go get a gallon. His buddy is going through a bad divorce.

No late night phone calls, thank goodness. The credit card bill was pretty empty, because we started using cash instead a few months ago, because we thought we'd spend less that way. I do have access to his email, but he is aware of that, we ask each other to look up stuff when we're not home. I have found like raunchy jokes to one another, but H doesn't share my concern about that. Thanks for asking those questions, I do feel a little better, like I'm not totally just waiting for the shoe to fall.

What would you think about using one of the techniques generally discussed when infidelity is suspected? For example, a voice-activated recorder in the car?

Boy, that's a tough one, eo. If he's getting divorced I could see how it would be a guy's night, but being so adamant and out-front about you not going is really odd, too. I guess I'd just start being a little more vigilant. Hopefully for nothing, but I'd rather you be prepared than caught off guard.

Jayne, I'm actually thinking about that. I'll take a look from work tomorrow. I know that may sound extreme, but I want to lay all these worries to rest one way or the other once and for all. I've been struggling with these bad feelings since DD12 was 2.

Cat, that really caught me off-guard, too. He used to complain bitterly about me not going out with his buddy and his STBX.