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But when I said "the excitment of meeting someone new" I wasn't talking about the act of having an affair but what happens long before one starts - when the first feelings of attraction take hold but long before anything is done about it. But I guess sometimes you can get the same feeling from your spouse after a reconciliation or a long absence. So you like the feeling of what it's like long before the affair starts? There is a thread by someone named Stanley here I read yesterday where he mentions some women have need for admiration as top EN, do you feel that is how you are? I was a WS too and I know the feeling you talk of. Everyone does, BS and WS, but shouldn't us FWS try to refrain from seeking out or missing that feeling? Otherwise it could be like a drunk trying to sit at a bar w/o drinking because he likes the "feeling" of being so close to the booze before anything is done about it. Usually that doesn't last too long for most "recovered" alcoholics that chose to glamorize any part of their previous lives knowing the tragedy that always follows.
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I was a WS too and I know the feeling you talk of. Everyone does, BS and WS, but shouldn't us FWS try to refrain from seeking out or missing that feeling? I agree with most of your post but I do take offense to this. I am a BS who has chosen Plan D. I've been legally separated for a year and have been dating, so I have recent experience with that feeling of excitement of meeting someone new. I can tell you that I NEVER seeked it or missed it during my M, and I am probably in more danger of getting involved too quickly so I can put that stage of a new relationship behind me and not have to deal with it again. Give me comfort and familiarity any day over this. But that's just me. Regarding friends of opposite sex, I've always had them. Quite a few, actually, and some who I consider to be close friends. I also work in an old boys club which often means travelling with and seeing male co-workers socially (it's really tough for a woman to crack these and completely impossible if you don't play the game). I didn't have an affair. I have never found it particularly difficult to NOT have an affair. And it's not that my M was all that great because it wasn't and very few of my ENs were being met. It never even occured to me that having an affair might solve these problems. So if you ask me, WS's have some serious character flaw - perhaps that need for that "feeling of excitement meeting someone new" or something that allows this.
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Hi Tabby, I think I used poor wording to describe what I really meant. I meant everyone knows what it feels like, especially teenagers. I agree that comfort and familiarity is more important to me now as well. When I was WS though, I was chasing that "high"
I think *most* people "grow up" and tend to look for more important contentment(?) while others (I believe most WS included, like 99%) continue to *need* "someone new" They may fight it, put it down, but if it's there in any fashion I really think it affects the marriage in some fashion even if the "bank never gets robbed"
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If my FWH told me he missed the excitement of meeting someone new, i would send him packing and tell him he can meet all the new people he wants PERIOD.
I also am one who does not think that members of the opposite sex can or should be just friends. Couples are fine, but not me having a male who is just a friend or my H having a female who is just a friend.
Last edited by Still_Crazy; 05/15/08 09:19 AM.
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Below, I copied over my list of EP's. I don't know if these will help you or not? I guess it just depends upon how serious you are.
Ya know, the MB way is a narrow path, and it's obvious to me that you are not on that path yet. I pray you make the decision to get on the path and do all the work necessary. ALWAYS! To recover and stay recovered.
IMO, Ya can't pick and choose what you want to do and have any long term success. (just my .02)
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Extraordinary Precautions:
a) I am responsible to protect my wife at all times.
b) I will give full access of all my business records to my wife.
c) I will agree to give all passwords, account codes business and personal to my wife.
d) I will not put myself in an advice giver role with another woman, unless my wife is present and has given her prior approval.
e) I will defer to my wife as the advice giver when it involves another woman, unless she specifically calls on me.
f) I will not spend any time with another woman that my wife is not present.
g) I will allow only my wife to hear my problems or concerns.
h) I will not share my infirmities with another woman.
i) I will allow my wife to be my exclusive care giver, unless she specifically calls on someone else to help her.
j) I will defer to my wife in all matters of charity and outreach, with her being the sole point of contact when caring for women.
k) I will not teach martial arts to another woman without my wife being present and having enthusiastic agreement about such training in advance.
l) I will openly share my daily business schedule with my wife.
m) At any time she requests, I will trade cell phones with my wife for the time she deems necessary.
n) I will allow only men to provide essential care, such as Doctors appointments, hair cuts, massages, individual counseling, etc.
o) I will always defer to my wife regarding any outside activity and will agree to eliminate any activity she feels is interfering in our relationship or the relationships of our children.
p) I will not travel out of town for business or personal reasons without the company of my wife. tst these are all such WONDERFUL EPs and i am sure the SMB feels much better because of them.
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So if you ask me, WS's have some serious character flaw - perhaps that need for that "feeling of excitement meeting someone new" or something that allows this. I call the flaw a "sense of entitlement" and it is not limited to WS's only. It even shows up in those who choose to date before they are even divorced. Justification and Rationalization are main symptoms of this flaw of entitlement I have never found it particularly difficult to NOT have an affair. Whether you acknowlege it or not, Boundries are what prevent A's. Consciously or Unconsciously you have established Boundries.
injuno
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So if you ask me, WS's have some serious character flaw - perhaps that need for that "feeling of excitement meeting someone new" or something that allows this. I call the flaw a "sense of entitlement" and it is not limited to WS's only. It even shows up in those who choose to date before they are even divorced. Justification and Rationalization are main symptoms of this flaw of entitlement I have never found it particularly difficult to NOT have an affair. Whether you acknowlege it or not, Boundries are what prevent A's. Consciously or Unconsciously you have established Boundries. Very well stated IMVHO!!!!!!!!!!1
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Whether you acknowlege it or not, Boundries are what prevent A's.
Consciously or Unconsciously you have established Boundries. Wouldn't the inability or unwillingness to consciously or unconsciously establish boundries be considered a character flaw? Or is this one of those "eye of the beholder" things?
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Wouldn't the inability or unwillingness to consciously or unconsciously establish boundries be considered a character flaw? Or is this one of those "eye of the beholder" things? Unwillingness would be a conscious boundary. Inability would be a mental handicap of some type. There is no eye of the beholder in boundries. The Character flaw again, even in "eye of the beholder" is entitlement!
injuno
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Call me crazy but I think that it took courage for Apharaesus to admit that feeling on this forum. I also think that the awareness of that feeling and how it has contributed to her past As is the foundation for good strong boundaries now. I wish that my FWH had as good a handle on what he got out of or was looking for from his FOW. Instead of that he "just fell into it and didn't know how to get out of it."
Say
Me, BW-57
FWH 54
4 kids and 4 grandbabies between us
In recovery since D-day, May 28,2007
FWH never onboard the MB boat but still clinging to the side.
One day at a time by God's grace.
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Call me crazy but I think that it took courage for Apharaesus to admit that feeling on this forum. I would agree it takes awarness to admit a problem! Being aware of a problem is the first step to making changes. But taking responsibility for your own thinking/actions and making changes that are tangable requires actions..... These changes/actions are what demonstrates real courage. When we admit we have a problem and then do nothing to change, what usually follows is self pity....the OH Poor Me type of attitudes! (Often confused for depression).
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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I am just thankful to not be a "woman" that thinks like you....you think it is okay to miss the infatuation of meeting someone new....get a life and grow up. mk, You are being less than honest. Every single married man who sees a pretty woman feels some degree of lust toward her, even if he decides not to do anything about it. How is that different from a married woman having the same feelings? Do you really expect me to believe that the whole time you were married (and before d-day) you never even had a single thought about any woman other than your wife? Not even a movie star or actress on tv? I have been told my whole life that it would be impossible for a man to achieve such a feat, no matter how "mature" he is so why expect it of women?
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WrkngHrd,
Well I know if I run into anyone exciting like that, I can't associate with them. I realize that now.
jlr,
Thrill seeking? Maybe. I mean I wouldn't want to go jumping out of an airplane but I did have this idea once about spicing things up with my husband by watching scary movies together. Not horror movies, though, those are just gory and predictable. I'm talking about thrillers.
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Below, I copied over my list of EP's. I don't know if these will help you or not? I guess it just depends upon how serious you are.
Ya know, the MB way is a narrow path, and it's obvious to me that you are not on that path yet. I pray you make the decision to get on the path and do all the work necessary. ALWAYS! To recover and stay recovered.
IMO, Ya can't pick and choose what you want to do and have any long term success. (just my .02)
------------------------------------------------------ Some of these help, thanks..I see I need to alter some to fit my personality since I don't teach martial arts  And some of these, like give him passwords, I've already done. I should make my own list and show it to my husband.
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But when I said "the excitment of meeting someone new" I wasn't talking about the act of having an affair but what happens long before one starts - when the first feelings of attraction take hold but long before anything is done about it. But I guess sometimes you can get the same feeling from your spouse after a reconciliation or a long absence. So you like the feeling of what it's like long before the affair starts? There is a thread by someone named Stanley here I read yesterday where he mentions some women have need for admiration as top EN, do you feel that is how you are? I was a WS too and I know the feeling you talk of. Everyone does, BS and WS, but shouldn't us FWS try to refrain from seeking out or missing that feeling? Otherwise it could be like a drunk trying to sit at a bar w/o drinking because he likes the "feeling" of being so close to the booze before anything is done about it. Usually that doesn't last too long for most "recovered" alcoholics that chose to glamorize any part of their previous lives knowing the tragedy that always follows. I like attention, but I don't think it's admiration per se. I don't think admiration is one of my top needs, no. But I agree with you that I don't want to put myself in situations where I do meet and spend time with someone I'm attracted to even though I'm not acting on it. That's just torturing yourself and it's better to just avoid the person. But many recovered drunks and junkies talk about getting "high on life" and the Harleys do argue that spouses filling each other's love banks can cause a return of that feeling you got when you first met.
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Call me crazy but I think that it took courage for Apharaesus to admit that feeling on this forum. I also think that the awareness of that feeling and how it has contributed to her past As is the foundation for good strong boundaries now. I wish that my FWH had as good a handle on what he got out of or was looking for from his FOW. Instead of that he "just fell into it and didn't know how to get out of it."
Say saynomore, Thanks! The way I figure it, the feeling is not going to go away by just pretending it isn't there. (And a plan that involves nothing but telling yourself - don't think of that! - NEVER works.) I don't want to follow it, so I've got to either dispell it or channel it toward my husband. BTW, I'm also a Monty Python fan! (I assume that's where you got your name
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Okay, here's my EP Plan so far:
1- No secrets
2- Husband will have all passwords, past, present and future.
3- No close male friends.
4- Casual male friends only okay if "not my type" and never alone in person without husband there.
5- No giving or receiving advice to/from men, esp. about relationships (except on MB where it's public and anonymous).
6- No discussing any marital problems with other men.
7- In conversing with other men, no discussions about sex even if it's completely abstract and clinical in nature.
8- No online chat hobbies that don't involve my husband.
9- No traveling without my husband.
I think that covers it. I don't have a problem with male doctors. I have this mental block against thinking of my own doctor in that way, no matter who he is. Gee if I could figure out why, I could use that to my advantage but I have no clue.
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Aph,
You make some very good points.
I beleive it was Dr Frank Pittman who states in his writings, that the ideation to become unfaithful happens long before the line is actually crossed. In other words, the choice has already been made and the unfaithful partner is simply waiting for the the time and place for the "act" to occur.
This was true with with my FWW, as much as she refuses to admit it. One does not wake up one morning and decide, "I think I'll jump my bosses bones today. But they wait for the sitch where they can have some deniablity and claim it wasn't really their fault. Bullsh@@t!
Sad but true.
All Blessings,
Jerry
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I shared my list with my husband. Although the list might be useful to me personally I don't think sharing it did anything to make him feel less afraid. He says if I feel I need to take such extreme measures that means there is something very wrong (with our relationship) and that my focus should be on dealing with what motivated me to look elsewhere in the first place. I said I have some ideas about that but they are hard to implement with us being apart (because it mostly has to do with improving SF for both of us.) So I suggested we focus on improving the emotional connection between us as much as possible until we can be together.
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Aph,
I would agree with your H. SF differences can usally be resolved in a M without looking outside the M.
Generally speaking, it is not about SF, but rather the very strong EN to be wanted and desired. It is a form of validation that we all feel and very much need to have.
When someone comes along and fills that EN, it is very easy to fall into the fantasy of an A.
You, IMHO, need to look deeper into this EN.
All Blessings,
Jerry
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