Nor can I be made to be something I'm not...a woman. Yes, I can do those things at home "traditionally" considered to be more of the W's responsibilty. I can cook and clean and take care of the kids and all of that, but I can't read minds or understand emotions I'm not told about.

It's true, I have ALWAYS felt underappreciated, but I was good in the role I assumed and don't regret it for one minute.

I have noticed one common link between all 3 of the OM my wife has become involved with. At first impression, they were (are) more feminine in speech and behavior than most men. Not calling anyone any names or being overly critical, just an observation than any man would make. Do you think this quality allows them to meet more EN's (even JUST over the phone) than I and to seem more sympathetic and understanding? She keeps insisting that the last two (present one included) are "just friends," although she says she does see potential for a future with this one. Just a thought, I could ne WAY off base here. Even a very macho man could listen to a woman talk about her husband over the phone for hours and seem compassionate and understanding. Thoughts?

AW3,

Maybe your wife only wants someone to listen to her. Maybe your years of "fixing" her problems have made her feel that you can't just hear her feelings without thinking ahead to how you will make it better. Maybe she does not want a knight in shining armor, just a sympathetic ear. Effiminate voice or not. Just a thought.

Cat, I was not suggesting that you could not "play in our sandbox" just questioning why you would want to. Just reading on this forum can be heart wrenching, much less posting. Not to mention very time consuming. Like POM I also am concerned about the possibility of an A in your marriage. By you because your ENs are not being met or your H because no matter what he does, he cannot possibly seem to make you happy. I guess it is our nature as BSs to now see the possibility of As everywhere. Your radar may not be that perceptive. Said in love! (:

I make very sure that this time consuming activity does not interfere with my 15 hrs/week with FWH or the wonderful, sacrificial time that it takes to meet his ENs.

Say

SNM, But she has always expected me to fix it. She talks with solutions already in mind, anticipating what I will say and hoping (and expecting) we will ALWAYS agree, knowing I will give in no matter what (see: foster parenting). If she didn't want to fix the relationship she has always had with me (the father of her children), why would she seek another R with OM?

I can't leave this thinking I am screwed up somehow. I was the one who was ABANDONED, remember?

Easier? Clean slate? Reinvent herself? Her perception is her reality with a new OP. Who knows? My FWH is still alternately scratching his head and kicking his butt over his indicretion. And I truly believe him about that.

Say

How long was he away?

Never left. Just carried on a year long EA, followed by a six month PA right under my loving, unsuspecting nose. I discovered graphic text messages between him and OW. He was immediately repentant and recommitted to our marriage. He had no withdrawal or anything but I truly believe that he would have continued the A for months until it petered out or I found out. All kinds of infidelity. All similiar in many ways. All devastating. None can be explained or understood.

Say

So, YOU dealt with the causes for his A like so many are suggesting I should?

I now see my faults and how things had been doomed for a long time. But I CANNOT accept responsibilty for her stepping outside of our marriage and involving OM!

Yes. It was maddening but I was already plan Aing without knowing it when I found the texts. I may have been too dumb to realize that there was someone else but I knew there was distance and a lack of love and respect. I also knew that the only thing I coulc do to change who he was was to work on me. It gave me something positive to do and made me feel better in the midst of the debilitating grief. I read HNHN, SAA and LBs. I worked full time on changing my reaction to his behavior and totally eliminating all LBs. By the time I confronted him he had gotten a glimpse of the me he fell in love with and we had a good fighting chance.

I also told him how sorry i was that I had gotten so disengaged with our marriage that I had missed the signs but I also let him know that I did not feel in any way responsible for the A, only the condition of the marriage that lead to it.

I was also very independant. I did the budget, paid the bills, took care of the house, got the oil changed, paid the insurances, cut the grass, washed the cars. All because I work 30 hours a week and FWH sometimes works 60. I had completely quit telling him the things that I appreciated about him, how goodlooking I thought he was and how I admired what a good husband and hardworker he was. I was doing sooo much "for" him and I believe he began to feel almost unneccesary in the marriage. He could not have been more wrong but I had done a very poor job of letting him know that. It took some very serious retrospection and lots of time for both of us.

Say

Sometimes people self-destruct on purpose. Ruin their lives or others' lives. Based on innermost feelings. For instance, it's very common for a childhood sexual abuse victim to go out and be promiscuous and set herself up for getting raped or worse, because they hate and blame themselves for what was done to them. Instead of learning to be mad at the person who did it (and who is often a family member that the family protects).

There might be something in her past that's driving her to hurt everyone around her. Even something as benign as being spoiled can create a person who has no idea how to function in the real world where you have to put your own wants on hold sometimes for someone else's benefit. Most of us understand that concept, but someone who truly has never had to hold back for another may not be able to even conceive of it. That's why I'd like to know more about her past.

say, there are a ton of things my H could do to make me happy; and I've communicated many of them. But he feels he knows what our family needs (so he says) and makes decisions that way. Shoot, if he would just stop throwing his shirts in the towel hamper like I've asked him a dozen times so they don't get wet and moldy, I'd be thrilled with him. Because then he would be acknowledging that what is important to me can be worth considering; but he doesn't. I'm doing 3 years of taxes by myself cos he won't help, and I've asked him at least 6 times in the last 3 months to go through a pile of his boxes of papers, and he says ok and then leaves and goes to do something else. When I ask him why he just says 'I needed to do it.' If he would even just throw away his own trash, I'd be thrilled. Not saying I'm an angel, I have my own share of dysfunction; but it would be nice for him to get up on Mother's Day just once and say 'hmm, what would catperson like me to do for her?' instead of 'I'm gonna do XYZ for catperson cos I'm a great husband.'

Why am I here? Someone asked me to come over here from Emotional Needs once, and I saw that many people were suffering from the same problems as over there, along with the A, so I figured adding the psychological aspect could allow some people to see additional ways to fix their problem. As for time consuming, I rarely spend more than 30 minutes on here at home, and my work is slow enough that I can pop in from time to time; even then, I only visit a handful of threads. I guess I do it because it is one place in my life that (I hope) I can make a difference for someone. Again, if I'm bothering someone, all they have to do is say so and I'll avoid their threads.

Sorry, aw3, back to you.

I'm sorry if you think I (or anyone) am saying that. Of course you're not responsible for her tearing your heart out like she did; it takes a certain kind of person to be able to do that to another.

But you said you wanted to understand, so we were trying to help you figure out how you guys got to this place. So as to not have to go through it again.

Never said it was a bother, just a curiosity.

Say

So, now CP, that you know a brief synopsis of our history, can you see where the issues were building since our youth? She claims she has never been abused, though I know that her sister and cousin were by an uncle. Maybe she subconsciously feels I abused her in some way? Stealing her youth and early adult life from her. Oh, I don't know, I've just loved her...isn't that STILL the main thing?

I'd need to know more about her childhood, honestly. I do know that even witnessing someone else's abuse can wreak havoc on a child. All kinds of guilt and lack of empowerment and mistrust...on and on. And btw, if her sister and cousin were abused, I'd bet money she was too; she may have repressed it, which is very common.

If you ever get to the point of talking to her again, start asking her about her childhood. It does wonders for someone to be asked stuff like that, and it could help you, too.

And yes, loving her IS the main thing. Hang in there. I hope she realizes what she's giving up.

Thanks, me too! I've never considered that she too may have been abused. I know that she is 7 years younger than her sister, so that may explain why one was and not the other. I do know that her mom was very career oriented and her parents fought (physically) alot. From 13 on, she has mostly just been with me. She must think herself very brave right now to walk away!

*edit* by request of pomdbd3

Whoa guys, easy! You each make very valid points to help ME in MY situation. CP, I do value your perspective as a woman. P3, I can easily relate to a lot of what you just said as well. You guys are now critiquing each other, when I am the one here alone!

AW3,

Sorry. It is what's called a "threadjack".

It's frustrating to read that kind of criticism of a husband and I do feel a 2x4 is called for to help provide some perspective.

You probably relate to a lot of what I'm saying.

A little harsh Pom. Cat's marriage just sounds like one that really screams for MB tactics. HNHNs read by both might be a good place to start. Have the two of you ever done the EN questionair,Cat? I know, easier said than done. It took almost nine monthe of my loving persistence to get my FWH to fill it out with me but we were already working the plan in the background without it. (and he was making amends from an affair but still reluctant) It just made things clearer for us.

Just more curiosity about your time here if you are not working the MB principles. Just trying to help as you always do. No offense meant.

Say

AW3,

Did you read my post about changes. You and I seem to have had some similiar pre A behavioral patterns.

Say