Hi all. Yes, I am new here - at least as far as posting. I have been reading the boards with interest for a few months.

Here is my sit in a nutshell:
M 44
W 42 (works out of home office)
D15
S13
D10
T 19
M 17

Have been a busy crew with kids and personal activities for many years. Unfortunately, the "couple time" suffered as a result. W said she was "unhappy" a few times in past but I (nor she in hindsight) never really addressed what to do (yes, a big screw up!). I am conflict averse, which doesn't help. Even with this, family functioning went along, but our R was stagnant.

Then came 08. W reconnected with old flame from 20 yrs past just before New Year's day (om is married, 2K and lives 1500 miles away). She changed - privacy more important, secret e-mail accounts, trips by self out of town. Suspicions were definitely there. Mid Jan, received ILYBINILWY. Was concerned, distraught, in shock, etc etc. She told me I am blowing this out of proportion. Good for the waist line - lost 16 pounds in a week.

Suspicions confirmed about a month later by stumbling on printed e-mails - PA in progress. Major shock set in. Took 4 weeks to confront her (2 wks of shock and 2 wks of figuring out what I wanted to do). No denial from W, asked what I wanted to happen, said she wants us to work on things.

Well, a few days later, not so sure - in love with OM, soul mate, blah blah blah. I, so far, have agreed to keep A relatively quiet as she is scared of what others would think but now it is to the point that W has almost trivialized the whole A.

Went traveling as a family, then just as a couple. Very tense between us at start (only a week after I confronted her about the A). Tension eased the more time we spent together - not great discussions, etc, but pleasant to be around.

As of today, W has raised issue of S and even possible D, but in next breath says we could work on R, but not the intimate part. On disc of D, I lost my composure and immediately said house would be sold and why do you assume you would get the kids. Of course, this was seen as more controlling behavior by me. W has said that I have been controlling for all of our marriage. Interesting as a good friend of ours whom I have confided in says if anything, there is a good case to say W is the controller - but that is neither here nor there.

Throughout all of this, W has put on a show for all others, convincing me to buy vacation property, talking about a family holiday at Christmas, home renos, spending $$ like crazy (new wardrobe, etc) (her income is not that high).

I have rambled - sorry. Will try to be more succinct in future.

From what I see in the forums, could be signs of MLC.

I am trying to do what I have not been doing - initiate conversations about her, tell he my feelings (be more open and vulnerable which I have a tendency not to be - like a typical Martian from the Venus and Mars books) but this is tough to do at present. D15 and S13 know (W told them) that we have issues and are in counseling (MC and I have been to IC - W starts IC next week). Interesting that we still sleep in same bed.

I do not want out and will not agree to any S or D - obviously if W wants, she can start anytime. I am trying not to pressure

At times I see the lovely lady I married, but more often than not, I cannot tell who she is.

Any thoughts or words of encouragement would be appreciated. It is hard, but I am hanging in there... so far. Have to for the K.

What to do...

Lost

I am SO NOT an expert. But I would start exposing this just as fast as I can.

I think I read people often say a M can survive the WW's anger, but not an A. Break that secret wide open.

Am I wrong vets?

Exposure, exposure, exposure.

You must expose the affair. Painful, just like surgery. It must happen, suddenly, without warnig her.

I'm very sorry for the pain you will endure.

You are exactly right, Queenie.

The affair needs to be exposed to the other man's wife (with proof), your wife's parents, your parents, and friends. And don't tell her you are going to do it ahead of time so she can't spin you as the crazy jealous husband.

And yes, she will be FURIOUS. But your marriage can survive her anger. It may not survive her affair.

Sorry you are here, lost. But you are in the right place.

The biggest problem I see here is your ENABLEMENT of her affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy and you have aided and abetted her in this regard by helping them hide their secret. Protecting the affairee's secret is in no one's best interest. It is not in your W's best, the OM's best interest, yours or your children. The only thing that benefits is the AFFAIR.

One of the reasons that Dr Harley is successful, where other MC and IC are not, is that he understands the dynamics of adultery and knows how to save marriages. What he would tell you to do is Plan A for a few months, and then after you have tried everything, to go into Plan B, which is a separation.

But I suspect if you simply expose this affair, it might end pretty quickly. I doubt the OM would be willing to leave his marriage if his wife found out about the affair. And she should be told immediately, lost.

lost, in short, if you want to save your marriage, you are going to have to take some action, friend. if you do nothing to defend your marriage and your children's family from this very destructive force, your marriage and your childrens family will be........destroyed. It is up to you to PROTECT your family and I don't see that you are doing that...AT ALL.

Time to get to work, lost, if you want to save your marriage.

Here is an outline of plan A:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

The reason she has been able to trivialize it is because you have helped her keep it secret. Secrecy has FUELED the fantasy. This allows her to protect her affair from the light of REALITY. The secrecy keeps the fantasy alive. Exposure, on the other hand is like turning on the lights in the crack house and bringing in a crowd. No one likes smoking crack in the light of day with a crowd watching. It ruins the high and forces the crackhead to see himself through the horrified, disgusted eyes of others.

I would also add that marriage counseling is useless when one partner is in an affair. Recovery is impossible until the affair is ended. That is like taking a falling down drunk to a therapist. He will never be mentally capable of recovery until he SOBERS UP. It is the same with an affairee. Your MC is wasting your money.

This is exactly why marriage counselors have the highest FAILURE rate of any of the counseling disciplines. [84% failure rate] They don't have the slightest idea how to save a marriage and know nothing about the dynamics of infidelity. They have a higher divorce rate than the general population, and are a menace to marriages.

IC will be even worse for your marriage. An IC will help her pursue her own selfish interests at the expense of your marriage.

Thank you all for the words of advice. I know I have enabled things to get to this point, but cannot seem to bring myself to do anything about it yet.

Here's a little more info. The OM S knows of the A, or at least knows of my WW involvement with OM in some capacity. She called here in the middle of the night a few weeks back and talked to WW (found OM cell phone and saw our # and also saw an e-mail). That was the only contact that I am aware of. I am struggling with whether to tell D15 (almost 16), but I do not want her thinking this is acceptable behavior.

I talked to WW parents earlier this year before I knew of the A, just to say that I would do anything to make our M work (WW had told them we were having issues). Well, I will never be forgiven for that because I apparently should not have gone to S parents (even though I have a good R with the IL, better in some ways than with my own parents). It is apparent now as to why - the IL were worried of an A after our conversation when I mentioned who WW "reconnected" with and ripped WW in half. If they found out the A actually did happen, as WW put it, she would be crushed by them. WW lied right to them and this is one factor (I think) that is leading to the guilt WW has. We know where IL would be if the truth was out there (supporting me) and this is very troublesome to WW.

WW is really concerned about others finding out, esp those above. I would not be doing for revenge, but to save the M. But sometimes I wonder if having the threat is actually more advantageous than actually exposing. I know this goes against what is here and what all of you are saying, but I will struggle with this for a while yet.

Lost,

I am a recovering addict/alcoholic with over 21 years sobriety. I go to AA meetings on a regular basis. This is by no means bragging but to give you a sense of how hard this past year has been for me.

Here is the G-ds honest truth, if you want to fight for your M, you are going to have to do things that you are SCARED to do. I understand that, truly. But I did THEM.

Back to my AA point, last night the topic was gratitude. I am grateful that I was destroyed enough to be WILLING TO GO TO ANY LENGTHS, to save my M. Have I succeeded, absolutely not. I am in a VERY DARK Plan B. 6 months ago, I couldn't imagine me doing this, but I am and pretty darn good at it.

Please, you MAY not be able to do things, but trust the vets on here, they will make suggestions, and help you walk through doing them. AND ME TOO. I know because they did me.

Did you truly mean it? If so, it doesn't matter what other people say. Only what you need to do for yourself and know that you did everything to save your M.


Go ahead and struggle with it, be scared to do it, pray for the courage, etc. and do it.... We are here for you.

This is WAR... not a game.

You are free to struggle with exposure, but just know that while you are struggling, the affair is becoming more entrenched.

And I'm sure the OM's wife does NOT know the truth. The OM has lied and gaslighted her into feeling she is crazy and nothing is going on. That is what they do.

When the affair is exposed to the light of day, it often ends. Affairs live in darkness and secrecy. And I would tell your kids for sure. Sometimes they already know but are very fearful to tell the BS what they know.

The sooner the affair ends, the better for your marriage. I am divorced. My husband's affair went on for 7 months before I discovered it. And then the OW's husband was still fighting in Iraq for another 4 months. So the affair had a good start before exposure. It lasted almost 4 years and ended less than 2 weeks after our divorce was final. By that time, I was DONE. He wants to come back. It is too late.

I urge you not to waste precious time.

I do hear what all of you are saying. Thank you.

Just wanted to let you know how goofy this is all getting. WW and D15 left today for a short trip, then rest of us are meeting them to go for a holiday to our recently purchased (yes, after I know of A) vacation property. 1st time for the K's to see the place- hope it will not be their last! Family time will be good (always has been) but let's hope the couple time will be ok, if there is any couple time - not sure if I should try to limit it or not. Unfortunately, one of our long term friends (who is D) will be there - she has been a quiet supporter of WW (looking for a "soul sister" and WW is jumping at the opp).

Alas - at least the weather will be warm!

Aren't you struggling with the affair and the ruination of your family, Lost? Aren't your children struggling with the potential loss of their family because their father will not lift a finger to protect them?

When will you stand up for your marriage and your family, Lost?

You have a powerful weapon in your hands, you know it, yet you refuse to use it. Why will you not defend your marriage, Lost? Why? This is worse than complacency, this is active concealment and deceit on behalf of the affairees. What about your kids, Lost? Its one thing to refuse to defend yourself, but what about them? Does she take the kids to meet her lover?


Does saying things like this keep you distracted from the fact that the Rome is burning while you play the fiddle?

When you say enable things I do hope you are not forgetting that the 'thing' YOU enable is another man having sex with your wife?

Stings, I know. I've been through it but remember that, everytime you feel bad about exposing her affair YOU are giving her permission to have sex with a stranger.

Remember that YOU are enabling the mother of your children to have sex with someone other that their father. What kind of example is that for them?

Are you still intimate with her? Are you possibly being expoased to disease? How does that help your kids?

Aren't you pissed off at all? Expose this mess and end it NOW.

Melody
The OM is 1500 mils away so the K's have never met him. It took a lot of planning and luck for them to be in the same city (not our home city) the three times they have been.

I have no excuse for the silence / protection. I fell into WW trap - saying she may never forgive me for talking to her parents the first time - and panicked I suppose. I forgot my premise of "believe none of what they say and 50% of what you see". I need to read SAA again to get my mind wrapped around this.

I know it is common for WS to turn this all around - it is my fault that the R is where it is at, I have given her nothing to build a R on, I have been controlling, the intimacy is dead, blah blah blah. Talk like this pisses me off, yet I do nothing when I know I need to.

Don't know why I need so many bricks to hit me in the head before I move...

iam,

No intimacy, so no worries there. This has been missing for a couple years. Knew there were issues and we were working on that. Had a short vacation in late Nov where we held hands, cuddled for hours but did not ML. Still it felt like the intimacy was returning.

I am pissed off... but also scared. The more I see of the alien being and less of my lovely wife the less scared I am getting.

Yes, you do know why. Because you CHOOSE to do nothing. You choose to allow the OM to destroy your family when you should be protecting them. You choose dereliction of duty, my friend.

Dr. Laura told this woman on the phone yesterday, "honey, you need a man who is man enough to put you in your place." That is what your wife needs............ desperately.

Have you ever read BobPures story? His wifes affair ended years ago and his marriage is on the mend. He didn't want to expose either. He was so scared he actually puked in the bushes. BUT HE DID IT. It killed her affair when he exposed to the OMW.

He said he changed from a SERF to a KNIGHT the day he exposed the affair. His whole attitude changed that day from one of despair and self loathing to one of HOPE and RESPECT and OPTIMISM.

Being timid and fearful is a CHOICE, Lost. Being courageous is a CHOICE. A CHOICE. Feelings follow ACTIONS, not the other way around. A feeling of courage is not going to accidentally come land on you. You have to DECIDE to ACT. That is how it works.

lost,

Consider me a cautionary tale of fearing your wife's anger.

Your wife will spew venemous anger at you and you are acting just as I did. I allowed my wife to treat me terribly when she was cheating. I feared upsetting her and I kept quiet. My family had no idea she had actually cheated. They knew of her online flirting, but had no idea of the physical cheating.

She effectively used my trust and fear to convince me to divorce her. She said, "we just need some time to heal and we can be together again someday."

She made me believe in hope and I fell for every word of it.

Where am I two years later? I am divorced, separated from my kids, and in debt to my eyeballs while trying to go through the courts to get more time with the kids.

Yours are a little older and have a say, but your attitude and approach will be your undoing.

You know the scene in "Airplane" where there's a line of people waiting for their turn to shake a woman, slap her around, and say "get a hold of yourself!"

That's what we're trying to do here because you can't see that what you're doing is damaging.

SHE messed around and has effectively manipulated YOU into fearing her.

She screws around and has you eating out of the palm of her hand.

"Oh, sweetie, please don't tell anyone because I'll be very upset if you do it."

Thank heavens you would have ILs who would stand by your side and expose. Tell everyone what you've discovered. It doesn't have to be nasty, just factual.

"I discovered that WW is having an affair with OM who lives 2k miles away and has 2 kids."

Done. Doesn't have to be any more than that.

You need to put pressure on her to end it, agree to no contact, and work and recommit to your marriage.

Being a weak doormat is not going to do it. She will take advantage of your fear of her.

Guess what? She'll respect a man who stands up for himself and not one she can push around with fear.

So exposing to everyone puts pressure on ending it. You should talk to OM's wife. Tell your family and your friends. Tell anyone who can have an influence.

There is nothing wrong with this.

But I can tell you that one of the greatest regrets I have now is not telling people what was happening. I even kept my divorce secret in some misguided attempt to preserve what little goodwill my family had for my ex.

Guess what? It cost me dearly to stay quiet. I had no one supporting me and helping me think straight.

Don't be me. You're well on your path for more heart ache and must act.

Exposure WILL make her mad. She will tell you that you just blew your chances and will get raging mad that you've told others.

That won't be surprising.

Lost,
I just got through reading your stitch. LISTEN to these wise people, EXPOSE!

You said OMW called the house because you saw the number on caller ID. How do you know it was her?

The ONLY people you are protecting by not exposing is your WW and the OM. Expose to OMW, parents, IC anyone who can help.

Think of your wife as a crack addict. You know every time she leaves the room to go into the bathroom she is doing drugs. All your family and friends are there. As long as you don't say anything she will continue to go into the bathroom and do drugs. If you threaten to expose she will try to talk you out of it and turn things around to be your fault. If you give her no warning and just open the bathroom door her dirty secret will be in the open. She does not see how horrid what she is doing is because it is done in secret. If it is brought into the light it may hit her like a ton of bricks. YES she will be PO'd but like EVERYONE has already told you if you don't expose and see to it that the Affair ends your marriage is over.

You should be pissed off. And I completely understand being scared. I was physically scared once when my life was in peril. It did not compare to the fear generated by my WW and the potential of our marriage ending.

But I promise you that action will not only make you feel better but it can save your marriage.

Get pissed off, pick up the phone today and make those calls.

Your wife will then make her choice when she is exposed as the ugly, filthy thing she has become. Only your actions can save her from what she has become. If you truly love her, you will expose her.

P.S. We are exactly the same ages you, I and WW's. Even married and together almost exactly the same time. I just thought it might help if you knew that.

lost, if you decide to defend yourself, come here and we can help you work out a PLAN that is the most strategically effective. Don't run off half cocked in an emotional state and do this. Your battle plan should be conducted with a calm mind and well thought out TACTICS. You need a strategic plan.

Your greatest enemy is your emotions, so I would suggest avoiding making any decisions on such a basis.