Gosh. You mean that all that guy has done is commit adultery? Gee, AW3, why you so upset?

Can't you see your W is her own person making her own decisions? What kind of a sick, controlling, destroying masogynist are you?

Why aren't you ok with your W finding herself in the arms of other men.

Gees. Men these days!

Yeah, really! BTW, I purposely ignored that particular post anyway.

One other issue I need your opinion on. Our 12 year old son is VERY angry and bitter at his mother for leaving. I HAVE NOT given him any details as to why she left nor have I said anything negative about her to him. Remember, we are a very religious family and have taught our children much from the Bible. He knows exactly what God says about divorce and what Jesus taught the pharisees about it. On his own, HE has come to realize that his mother is morally and Biblically wrong for leaving. He even asked me if I had committed adultery and caused his mother to leave. When I told him "No," he knew that the mother he has always adored was no longer what she had claimed to be nor did she believe all of the things we had taught he and his sisters.

I know that she thinks I am feeding him scripture to throw at her, but I honestly haven't. Yesterday evening, he told her that he knew she was wrong for leaving and that he was praying for her. He told her that he knew that the Bible teaches that God will punish her for the sins she is committing and that he was worried about her or what/who God might use to get her attention. She erupted! She told him that he wasn't her pastor and that a 12 year old little boy had no right to speak to his mother that way! She then proceeded to tell me that I HAD BETTER discipline him for speaking to her like that.

I am a little torn here. He has only spoken the truth to her. After all, "From the mouths of babes..." I HAVE told him he needs to continue to love his mother and show her respect, but should I really punish him for telling her that he was praying for her? I know that right now this is only pushing her further away and deeper into her immorality, but he HAS told her the truth! I guess that I've always thought, "The truth is still the truth, even when you don't want to hear it or even if it hurts." If he knew about OM right now, I shudder to think what he might feel or say. I fear that he may be told about OM "through the grapevine." After all, we do live in a small town, are pretty prominent in a large church, and SHE is telling plenty of folks about OM.

I realize MB is not necessarily a "Chistian" or spiritual sight, but enough of you have mentioned prayer and faith to me that I'm still curious as to your thoughts. Is he wrong for saying these things? Am I wrong for not forcing him to stop? Could it be that, W might listen to the words of her children before she would anyone else? I have mixed emotions, but I don't want to dampen his spirituality right now; he will need it later in life, regardless of how this whole mess turns out!

No.

This is a consequence of HER actions.

It is no more wrong for him to be angry and afraid for her soul than it was for you two to teach him those dratted moral things in the first place.

Sorry I've never posted to you before, it's just the pom and JL were doing such a wonderful job already that I had no need to.

But when it comes to the children, I seem to always have much to say.

- Kimmy

I am not religious, so I will leave that part to others.

I do think you need to tell your son what has happened if you have not already. Do not leave it to him to "figure it out" or assume that he knows. Do not allow him to wallow in confusion and doubt.

Nor should you punish him for speaking the truth to WW. It is not your fault, or his, that what he is saying is true. If it upsets her, she needs to figure out WHY being an adulteress is upsetting to her. Its her choice, and these are the consequences.

You need to be talking to your son, alot. There is a good chance he has talked to his siblings as well. How old are they?

Your son should be told the whole truth.

He is asking why his family is being ripped apart and deserves an honest answer.

Think of how much more efective his prayers will be if he knows the full truth.

God doesn't want us to cover/hide sins, He wants them exposed to the light of day, so that we might see how ugly/wicked they are.

Your WW will have to deal w/ the loss of respect that will come from her choices.

Abandoned,

I don't think I've posted to you yet, but I've kept up with your situation.

First, you need to stay on one thread. Let the thread in EN die as you're getting conflicting info from the wrong area. You don't have an EN problem ... you have an A problem. Stay with the one's who know what they're talking about.

Second, you are now basically 2 weeks (and 17 pages of posts) into this and you haven't done SQUAT to help your situation. The ONLY positive thing that has occurred was done by your PASTOR ... NOT YOU.

You need a PLAN, but more than that, you need the focus to stick with SOMETHING!!!

Quit worrying about what the damn house looks like or whether you should pack her clothes for her or whatever other trivial nonsense you're thinking about ... and START doing something meaningful and decisive.

I'm not the best to advise on the particulars ... I'm just the guy who swings the 2x4 at confused BH's. Listen to these people and let them do what they do best and STOP this A FIRST ... and then see if there is anything left to Recover.

His younger sisters are 12 and 2. Remember, the 2 year old isn't even officially adopted yet. We have been fighting to finalize the adoption for over a year.

W has now agreed that I should adopt her ALONE, but did ask if I would change my will for her to be the guardian if something happened to me.

I am certian that the 10 & 12 year old children have discussed this AT LENGTH. They both asked their mother why she had left, of course wondering if they had done something. They truly thought we had a happy family (as did I). They've rarely heard us argue, and never dreamed that what has happened to so many of their friends could happen to them. After all, we kept our family "in church" and these things only happen to "worldly" people (or so they thought). She lied to them and said that they just didn't know everyhting that went on after they went to bed at night and that she just wasn't happy.

She keeps telling them, "I left your daddy, not you." This is very confusing to them, since they're still here and she's not. She HAS to wake up eventually and realize EXACTLY who all she has left and how, longterm, this will affect all of us. I realize that it may be too late for R when she does, but, I know she will see it one day. I know that her darling son will now NEVER look at her the same way again.

The only thing that I told them was that, "You can never do right by doing wrong." I've explained that, if your mother wants to come home tomorrow, we ALL MUST forgive her and work to move on and improve our home. I told them we would "Kill the fatted calf (prodigal son?)" and celebrate if she ever chose to return home. They don't need to know all of the details of MC/IC and the other issues that would be involved wiht an R, just that mom's home!

AW3,

This is where you must step up and be a fervent defender of your family. Your WW is now an outsider to it. She is verbally abusing a child for speaking the truth.

So this is where you step up as a father and become father first, husband second. Your son is not wrong at all. Religious or not, he knows that what is happening is wrong and he has every right to say his part.

My father came to the three kids one day, furious because my mom was out with friends, which at the time, included a guy.

The situation was crappy all around and the kids were all quietly suffering as we watched our parents tear each other down.

Well, he came in fuming and yelling at us for "tolerating" this behavior in my mom.

I completely exploded in anger. Everything I was holding in came out. I let him have it and threw it back in his face that he had some real gall to tell us what to do or say or how we should feel while he was actively fu**ing his sl*t.

My sister and brother joined in and had a few choice words for him as well. He cowered, tucked tail, and left.

My fiance, at the time (not exww) said she hoped she never made me that mad.

Your kids will have feelings about this and he will be very angry with his mom. I had a strained relationship with my dad for years after what he did. We're good now, but it took years and the divorce from OW.

I like his current W and get along great with him and her but I still have moments of "why the heck did he do it".

Your son has every right to feel as he does and this is where you protect him for expressing his feelings.

When she demands things, you simply say, "You are in no position to demand anything from myself and our children after what you've done. Our son is calling a spade a spade and I'm not telling him anything. He is actually applying the lessons we've taught him about morals and scriptures and making his own observations. Don't you dare put him down for it or make him feel guilty because of YOUR behavior."

Then take your son, pick him up, comfort him, and take him out for ice cream or somewhere he can cry it out and be calm.

You are the defender of your family. You are papa bear and let your kids know you will defend them for saying what is right. Don't bad mouth their mom, but don't sugar coat the truth either. Kids will form their own opinions.

I can tell you that your daughters will have a much nastier response to OM than your son. Daughters are very protective of fathers.

The kids will be very hostile towards OM and will likely never be kind or accepting to him. Expect them to be downright nasty.

I couldn't so much stand being anywhere near the vicinity of my dad's OW.

I had images in my head of what I really wanted to do with that woman (waterboarding comes to mind) and would sprint the other direction when she was around.

My brother went to her house and put sugar in her gas tank, keyed her car, and threw ham all over it.

Needless to say, the expected warming she was hoping for from us never came. It took its toll on their affairage and was one of the contributing reasons to their eventual demise.

She tried to talk to me while I was at war when I called to talk to my dad. I was ok with saying, "Is my dad there?" to her when she answered the phone.

I called from where I was deployed and asked if he was there. She said, "Yes. I have a cousin out there taking part in operations."

She was met with silence and I simply repeated the question.

My brother? He would scream into the phone whenever she answered and would say things like, "Bit*h! I'm not calling to talk to you but to my dad! Now hang up the fu**ing phone so I can call back and talk to him and not you!"

There's a 10 year difference between my brother and I. He was the same age as your son, so you can expect him to be very angry during his teen years and he will express it a lot.

Be Papa Bear and don't be ashamed of it.

Well, your son is ahead of most kids. Younger kids would just conclude they must be STUPID to conclude that adultery is wrong when no ADULT will validate their feelings and give them moral guidance. Your silence connotes ENDORSEMENT and will just confuse him. Not validating his feelings and giving him moral guidance will teach him to DOUBT himself.

He should not be the only one here who is speaking out against adultery. You should be talking to him about this, ab.

I would sit him down, give him all the FACTS [age appropriate] about his mothers adultery and give him MORAL GUIDANCE. He should feel perfectly free to express his feelings to his mother as long as he does it respectfully. And saying an inconvenient TRUTH is not disrespectful.

Kids 4 and up can understand right from wrong and should be told about the adultery.

MR, How do I stop an A that at this time is merely a phone conversation from 4 hours away? Yes, they did rendezvous once in a hotel, but haven't SEEN each other since. This has been exposed, both by my pastor, myself, and my W. I have taken all of the legal steps and financial steps I could at this point. I am not chasing after her excessively or begging her to return. I have stated my desires and have left the ball in her court.

How else can I expose the A? OM's wife left him 6 months ago. Their employer was alerted. Our church knows, her friends know, her family knows. She is totally resistent to outside influences right now, completely ignoring all of those who's advice has been offered. Honestly, she knew what the reaction of all of her frineds would be before she left, so she was prepared with her responses before contacted. She literally is left with a few friends who don't truly know me, and OM.

Tell me, what else can I do right now? I really WANT to know!

ab, she should not be allowed to screw with their minds like this. This is another reason why you should have a STRAIGHT TALK with them. And I do mean STRAIGHT TALK. They need to be told of her affair, her decision to leave and help them understand WHY her irrational statements are irrational. They know she is speaking FOG but they don't quite know why so they need you to sort it out for them and give them MORAL GUIDANCE.

Their mother is lost in SIN right now and that is why is she acting like this. Her words are foolish and she is blind to the hurt she causes others. Tell them this.

Your kids need to know what is happening so that they don't blame themselves.

Yes, your W is leaving them to. She's destroying their world and she justifies it by saying she's leaving you, not them.

My father's actions affected all of us.

My exww's actions affected all of us, not just me.

They don't see it that way and use rationalizations about how the world would be perfect if we simply accepted how badly the kids and the spouses got screwed by their selfishness.

So you must be honest with your kids and let them know the truth. Mom has a boyfriend and wants to leave the marriage.

That is the truth. They need to know that none of it is their fault.

They will also have a say, at their age, about who they can be with. Be papa bear so they can be with you and will want to be with you and not fogged, moralless, afair WW.

Have you spoken to her personally?

I have CONFIRMED to them that their mother is confused right now by the SIN she is committing. I have talked very directly to them and have agreed with their condemnation of her actions. The only thing I haven't done is to tell them about OM. When I do, I know they will confront W about this. I already know how she will manipulate their thoughts by saying that "He is just a good friend, he lives 4 hours away, he has nothing to do with this, etc, etc." Maybe this is the last exposure I've been searching for?

I haven't spoken to her, though I'd like to. Again, they are seperated (she left him) and living 4 hours away. I don't even know her name. I tried the basic search tools online I could think of, but I had no luck. If anyone knows how I can find out who and where she is, I'm open to it.

Don't forget, W says OM had his ex call her to "be a friend" last Sunday!

Refresh my memory on how the employer was alerted, please.

And Vets, would the next step be Plan B?

Abandoned,

Being a BH myself, I'm MUCH more impressed with actions than words ... and all you've got are a bunch of WORDS. What have YOU really done???

You just posted this a few minutes ago:


Are you SERIOUS??? You'd take her back tomorrow, with no conditions, and just FORGIVE her and sweep it all under the rug. The only difference would be that she's now home and continuing to talk to OM and see him when opportunity presents itself.

First, like I said ... loose the thread in EN ... its just giving you justification for doing NOTHING.

Second, expose to your son ... he's asked and you've given him only half of an answer. Tell him the truth ... THE WHOLE TRUTH.

I'll let the experts fill in the rest of the plan ... but you've got to quit making excuses and actually DO SOMETHING. Otherwise, you may as well go see an attorney and start the D process and try to protect as many of the family assets as possible.

Our pastor noitfied their employer because of OM's title of "chaplain."

But YOU didn't talk to the employer. Why not?

I said that THEY would need to forgive her unconditionally, not that I would. Of course there will be strings attached (NC, MC, IC, etc.).