Wowie, wow, wow!

Yes, april, I'm sure some of it is you, but a lot of it is him. I'm sorry that you're being gaslighted by some of the men on this board. I am married to a porn addict who is in recovery, and I can tell you that he got all of the SF he wanted, he tried telling me too, that all men do it (the counselor shut THAT little idea right down), and that it had nothing to do with me (true). I have my own issues that I'm working on, and since I view using porn as a form of adultery, he has been cheating me. Not cheating ON me, but cheating me of love, intimacy, affection. He has to own that.

I can't believe you are being told that this is your issue.

The first thing I did before I lost my mind or filed for divorce was to talk to a counselor. For ME. About ME.

It helped lead me to the next step. It sure wouldn't hurt.

As I have stated before, I think all porn is wrong. If there is a porn addiction here, I am unaware of that.

I do not think that AS should be trying to control if and when her husbands masturbates though. I do not think he should use any type of porn as inspiration for this action.

I think I'm being mis-understood.

Pandas need to be saved.

Pop - I know you mean well. Context and reading her complete thread might help - because we've already addressed the unreasonable expectation that she has about his lack of religion.

What you missed is that he has self-SF'd to the point where he gets sores???

Things are definitely out of balance.

I want to get back to helping April from where she is. She's not going to stop love busting overnight. The problem is when someone's love-bank is empty, they have a hard time being self-contained. They NEED something - those precious emotional needs from someone who will not meet them. April has an unmet need for SF. Real intimate SF. She has needs for financial support, domestic support, etc. And yes, she picked the wrong man to meet them, because it's a spiritual center that she has developed that is hurting. She picked the man out of her own lust because she knew he wasn't spiritually the man she needed when she married him - and she has admitted she knew it then. So why else would she have married this man who she has so little in common?

So now what? We give her a break on the lovebusters, and start with some basic personal recovery. I encourage you to help her in this regard. Getting enough sleep. Getting enough self-care.

Believe me Pop - I've been April. Just ask Kasey - lovebusting, ESPECIALLY with the disrespectful judgments. A woman running on empty is going to love bust. I'm hoping you catch my drift - April needs your help and encouragement. Get after the root causes and encourage her there.

out of context you say?

ok so we work with the idea that context matters here?

and your point is that she's trying to change him and that she's expecting him to change?

let's look at that IN the context of a progressive addiction like alcoholism.

I would be willing to bet that she 'expected' at some point in their dating/courtship that she would be more than able to fulfill his SF needs.

But addiction is progressive and destructive, I think I already outlined that. I think that's commonly known. Early stages of the disease may put only a mild strain on people and relationships, but as it progresses that strain increases. That's the context.

Don't you think it's a little heartless to assert what you are asserting? would you say to someone who is in a relationship with a progressively worsening alcoholic or drug addict, "hey you knew they were like this when you married them?" do you really believe that?

am I misunderstanding your point?

if your point is simply that they both have issues and each have their own work to do that was never in question was it?

you point out that he doesn't think he's got a problem? well shoe on the other foot, I see him as having married her and apparently as evidenced by his behavior 'expecting' that he can emotionally abuse her and ignore her intimacy needs KNOWING that she wasn't 'like' that. You get my drift?

I don't think he 'expected' to treat her as he is. I rather think he's lost sensitivity as a result of a growing addiction. It looks more to me like he's progressively numbed out and tuned out. I suspect that the quality of their relationship in SF and other ways has declined over time.

The fact that he doesn't see how his actions have had any impact on his wife to where she is now emotionally drained is only further evidence that his head is where the sun don't shine. He's become a real relationship genius all right. Based on the results. You can call that a disrespectful judgment on her part to speak out about it being like it is but there are distinctions to be made between making disrespectful judgments and truthful disclosure about the reality of the situation.

I'll admit that I have not read this whole thread. I only have read from a little before where I started posting on it. IN that time, I haven't seen AS doing DJ's. I have seen her struggling to keep the love she feels alive enough to stay in the game and keep pitching. And in that time I think she's doing a helluva job.

I think she'd love SF herself for both of them, she just wants the F in the SF to be both ways. That doesn't make her a religious zealot or a marital agreement bait and switch player. I think she wants the fulfillment she hoped for when she married him. Please tell me if I'm missing something.

is there betrayal here? yea, it's called addiction.

Let me grab this golden opportunity to thank Kayla from the bottom of my heart for a letter she sent me out of the blue at the first of this month....



She moved me to tears with that one. now THAT is validation!

For a woman who at one time had the biggest lovebuster on my list was doing DJ's...well, now she's making deposits in my love bank on a major scale. I give her extra credit for that too because I know that for her to initiate that kind of letter and have that kind of insight, she's had some major rewiring of her fundamental character. She's not the woman that she used to be. She's the new IMPROVED model! I loved her before but I adore her even more now she's "grown up" as she calls it. I'm blessed to have her in my life.

I'm sorry guys, I have no words tonight ... I'm tired.

Hopefully I'll be able to post tomorrow.

God Bless

April,

I didn't catch the part that he was doing it so much he was getting sores.

Now THAT is abnormal.

You're in a tough spot.

But the ultimate message in all of this is that you can't change him. You can only change yourself.

Focus on you and improving yourself and it will pay off in the end as you emerge from this as either a better woman.

So focus on the things you can improve about you such as how you talk, your physical fitness, your demeanor, implementing good ENs and minimizing LBs.

I'm sorry if I came down with a 2x4 too much. I had no idea it was that much. I had the impression you caught him once or twice and that it was eating you up.

Now, it is your house. Why not throw away all that destructive garbage?

I thought this was nothing more than speculation by a fellow MBer.

A quick question this morning:

How do I give ANY EN's if I'm empty? If I want to preserve ANY love we have for each other at this time, what do I do?

I seem to be under extreme scrutiny from him right now, he snaps at the slightest things, wrong words(in his mind) I might use , wrong reactions I might have (wrong in his mind), anything.

If I want to preserve ANYTHING we have at all, what in the heck do I do? I feel extremely OUT of control right now, and am walking on glass each time I see him or talk to him on the phone.

I forgot something: no matter what he does, if it's rude, hurtful or just plain mean, and I express (natural) reactions, he is adamant and strongly rough, that there was NOTHING wrong with what he 'said', 'did' or 'didn't do'. It's getting to the point that he has all the control, and unless I never see him or talk to him again, there is nothing I can seem to do to regain MY control. What do I do???

Please advise!

Why does it have to be a control thing?

Why is it all about power?

You're getting answers. Focus on you and your own actions, not on his.

Indifference to his behavior will do more for you than worrying over every little thing he does.

Do the 180 in combination with Plan A.

Here's the 180:

The 180
1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

4. Don't follow her/him around the house.

5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your wayward
partner.

7. Don't ask for reassurances.

8. Don't buy or give gifts.

9. Don't schedule dates together.

10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the wayward partner)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…with out them!

17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the affair partner.

AS,

Please go to purelifeministries.com.
Your husband may not be willing to get help there, but you can.

I confess, I haven't read this entire thread.

If your husband is, indeed, a sex addict, he can only help himself. He has to want to. YOu can't do it for him.

I suggest you look for a Christian sex addiction counselor in your area and start attending the partners' recovery group.

You do this for YOU, whether or not he wants to help himself.

RLT

He doesn't appear to be anything of the sort. People have speculated here and have really done her H a disservice.

That's the first conclusion folks here jump to when a guy looks at porn and/or masturbates. Someone speculated that he might have sores on his privates from self-abusing too much, and now it's canon.

Classify it how you like.... whether it's sex addiction, pornography addiction, sinful & harmful lust addiction, a spiritual disconnection or an 'over-reactive' W...

The bottom line is that there is a painful disconnect and imbalance between, heart, body, mind and soul for april and her H...and this void is surfacing as SF issues.

If april is feeling as though she is object in the bedroom simply going through the mechanical motions....then it is likely the case. When hearts, minds and souls are disconnected, SF is simply a physical release.

You do have your own control, you just don't claim it.

I would say something like, "You don't have to agree with me but I expect you to respect my right to my own opinion, We may agree to disagree but if you continue being rude, hurtful or just plain mean toward me because I disagree with you then the conversation is over. Don't talk to me until you can be respectful."

I think the 180 list posted is a good set of suggestions.

it's pretty clear that your next move is what is called, "taking it to over".

that doesn't mean you have to end the relationship in one fell swoop but you CAN take any particular behavior to over, like raising his voice at you? take it to over. don't continue in a conversation when he raises his voice at you, if that is your boundary then when he does it just remind him of your boundary about raised voices and walk away from the conversation. etc. etc for whatever specific behavior is 'out of bounds' for you. If something is unacceptable to you in the dynamics of the relationship then refuse to relate outside that boundary.

you may use this format...
It (the interaction) is over until (specific behavior change).

this 'conversation' is over until you lower your voice.
this 'conversation' is over until you manage your temper.
this 'debate over ----' is over until you ----------.

take what helps and leave the rest.

well, I have a different perspective of what happened. from my perspective, she said what he's doing, then I shared what I did early in my addiction, and she said it seemed very similar to what he is doing both in action and demeanor. I didn't see anyone make any assertions about her husband, even this quote says, "IF your husband is..." Then I see people suggesting appropriate courses of action to AS regardless of his behaviors regardless of what he is or isn't. What he's doing is lovebusting that's pretty clear. If he's doing the lovebusting because he's an addict or just because he's naturally nasty doesn't really matter. I don't think anything I've said is cannon.

I think it's a disservice to DJ people who call others on their lovebusting. It just starts mindless rounds of accusations about whose most offended, the people who were lovebusted or the people who are offended that someone pointed out that they lovebusted.

I observe that whenever anyone mentions addiction here someone such as yourself is typically quick to be upset and suggest that the spouse has been dis-served.

I don't think anyone knows if he's an addict or not. I don't. But I know addiction is real and not everyone that denies their lovebusting and tries to blameshift on their spouse is disserved by being called addict-like. Sometimes the shoe fits. His actions are what prove or disprove anything. I think he's doing a pretty good job of dis-serving himself.

take what helps and leave the rest.

I really apologize for not responding here, but I'm just so drained, I try to post and then I just don't have the energy or the emotions to type.

Just a few things, because my mind is a mess and I'm totally wiped out.

This is not the first time he's had sores on his penis. There have been at least 2 other times in the last few years, since we've separated, that he's had this. The first time I set him up with an appt. and the doctor said it wasn't any VD, but he also didn't say what caused it. They did eventually go away, only to return again a few months later.

With sex, in all the 10 years we've been together, most sex has been F---ING. What I mean by that is, there is very little foreplay, and then intercourse, which is very short-lived before he achieves orgasm. There have been times when he has just turned me around and did his thing, and it's over before I know it.

It's been hurtful and lonely and sad for me, and I need to find out why I've allowed this. For what I feel in my head, I allowed it because I was his wife, there for him, wanted to be available so he wouldn't go elsewhere, and because I loved him.

This is quite graphic, so if you'd rather not read, stop now:














While having intercourse with me, many many times (most times), his eyes are on his penis going into me, and he looks very sex-crazed (only way I can think of saying it), and I just feel I'm not there, or at least as an intimate partner, I'm not there.

It's as if THAT is more important to him, more exciting to him, than ME. It's almost as if he's watching a movie. There was one time when he actually started to drool. It was all very unreal to me, so I just zoned out.

I feel like his hooker or prostitute. I haven't minded that sometimes, but not EVERY time. It's finally starting to harm my soul.

So is he an addict? I don't know, but I can tell you I feel VERY little connection to him, in sex. I don't feel loved.

I know I need to reclaim my power and control of my life, but I'm so very tired right now, so very sick of it all, I just have no energy to do much of anything, at least for awhile.

Thank you to everybody, even if I don't agree with you in every aspect, I do appreciate your postings and care.

April

What???

And this is a BAD thing???? Watching yourself disappear into the woman you love is a great joy.

Frankly, IMHO, you have some real, svere control issues. Now he can't look at something that turns him on while he is in bed with you.

I really feel for your husband. I bet he feels he can't win no matter what he does.