I am reading down through your posts and stopped when I saw this:


I am a betrayed spouse. Every day of my life I remember the pain. But with effort on my part and the renewed love of my wife, that pain is becoming dimmer and dimmer each day.

And while I noticed that Mel said "Every BS wants to know," I do think that there are people who really want to know in depth. I am one of those types of people. I have studied infidelity as much as any layman can. And understanding helped me to deal with my wife and how I felt about her and just as important, how I felt about myself and how I felt about myself in terms of dealing with her adultery.

The problem with your husband is that except for his discussions with the MC and his own introspection, he is not really seeking the answers. How can he find the answer to the question, "How could you do this to me?" or "Who are you that you could do this?" if he does not seek the answer in forums such as this and by reading books - an education.

Given the timeline since D Day, I suggest that you challenge him. If he really wants to know, the answers can be found here on MB and in the forums, plus reading Surviving, etc. Right now you appear to be hanging by a thread. And you don't want anything to weigh down the thread and break it. You live on hopes. That is a sad way to live. You are waiting for his love and he is not giving it except a bone now and then to keep you in the game.

I really hate to say this, because you likely will not heed what I say, but I must anyway. Could he be just punishing you? This is a very common reaction to an affair by the betrayed spouse.

The point is that progress is not made by sitting in a corner giving it lip service, progress is made by doing something. And progress not made becomes a really bad habit where nobody wins anything except a lifetime of grief.

Larry

No, I'm sure that people only watch some threads. It just felt like I'm out here alone. Like I said, my issue, I'm working on it. Years ago I use to run away when it felt like there was no one there instead of waiting for them to hurt me. Guess on some level I did that to my husband when I cheated on him.

I put it out there that I need help and support so that it is harder to run away. Sometimes running seems like it would be a better ending for my husband...and then things improve and gives me hope. I don't want to ruin it again and I need help to ensure I don't make a mistake again.

It's hard to be perfect and strong all the time. Sometimes I need a 2x4, not to hit me, but to help prop me up. Hit me when I need it but be sure to prop me up when I need it too.

He has you nicely between a rock and a hard place. By you not being there, he can tell them anything he wants including the simple fact that he isn't sure he wants to continue with you.

And that is what you want to dodge.

I go back to my other post to you. After a year and a half of half hearted efforts to understand you, while continuing to hold out hope where there might not be any hope, it is time he did something besides play with your emotions.

The two of you are either a couple or each of you must go down the road and find other ways of having a productive life. What you really want is forgiveness, or so it seems. I suggest to you that forgiveness comes from within you, not from him. You have no control over how he feels. Yet you are applying MB standards in the hopes he will see the light and forgive you. But if he isn't applying those same standards, forget it.

You can only control you.

Find peace within yourself. You did something terrible to another human being. You did your best to make up for it. It either works or it doesn't. It either works in a reasonable period of time or it doesn't. I do NOT see you as a bad person at all. I see you as a person who made a very large mistake and you want to find peace and resolution for that mistake. You have done all the right things it seems to me. From there it is up to him. If he will not respond, then you must move on. Or so it seems to me.

Larry

Punishment - yes, very real possibility. Something the MC has discussed with me. More than once she has said that its not about the affair, its about making me suffer like he did. In the same vein she also said that in order for my husband to have a future with me he needs to see change in me, that if he had to leave for months again for work that this would not happen again. More than words and more than trust because he thought he could trust me before.

I don't like this "thread" living. I never know whether it will be a good day or a bad day. Been mostly good which gives me the hope I need to live on right now. I also know that I can't live like this forever. It beats me down. I try to cheerlead myself but that doesn't always work. I just need to do this because I know that when it comes down to this, I am the one that put us here. I need to be the one to stay strong enough for two until he is ready to be back in the game.

In my next Jennifer note I was going to mention this website specifically - but he knows that I've been here. I just don't know if this (the forum) is the best place for him until he decides if he is in or out. I've read many posts that tell the husband to run. The ones telling the hubbie to stay, that its worth while, are harder to find.

I always appreciate what people have to say. I may not agree or it may make me see something I don't want to see but the words are read. I've read your words on some other threads and think that more people should listen to what you have to say. Thank you.

The MC gave him ground rules. He has to tell them everything so that they can see both sides - as best you can. Also, 1 1/2 it has not been like this. It blind sided me that this came up. We were planning our future. We had been doing things to make those things happen. I failed to see that we were recovering but fragile.

You are focused on telling the inlaws. I do not think telling the inlaws is the problem. I believe this has been made way more complicated than needs be. But that is my opinion.

Thank you for the compliment.

The two of you are nice people, or it seems to me. I surely do not want the two of you to be in the position of cruisegonebad and todd. That one has drug on for years and years. And todd is no fan of mine because of things I have said to him. Whether or not he admits it to himself or not, it is my belief that he is in the game to punish cruise, end of story.

What is a bit different is that you have actually made some progress, so you say, but now that progress is held fragile because of exactly how to talk to the inlaws. And you have had MC coach you on the subject.

It is my opinion from the emotional state of being a betrayed spouse that, simply put, it takes both of you for that discussion, not just him. You cannot grow together if you grow apart. And it takes two to make things happen and one to start down the path. You have started down the path. Now it is up to him.

Don't be afraid of the advice he will get here, PLEASE. Frankly, it is time you stopped operating on fear and hope and started operating to recover and mend and find whatever path life will present for you. And most of all, forgive yourself and just be the better person you have become because of what has happened.

Larry

I want to add something.

Even though it is my opinion that both of you should talk to the inlaws, it won't happen. He will talk to them alone. You may have the opportunity to put your oar in the water at some future date, you may not.

It doesn't matter either way at the end of the day.

What does matter is that you BOTH work to build a new relationship or you don't. THAT matters. And I suggest to you that he might find help here if help he is looking for.

Larry

I have no intentions of letting this drag on and on. This is no way to live. I just need to, for myself, give it all I can right now so if it does come to an end that I can look back and say with a peace of mind that yes, I made a mistake but I also did everything I could to correct that mistake and make our marriage stronger, better, happier, healthier.

I am not stuck on telling the inlaws. This is what will more likely happen than not. I am ok with the fact that I won't be there, I would prefer to be there but its not my decision. I think my inlaws are reasonable people and will see that my husband is hurting right now. That this ended 1 1/2 years ago and in that time we were openly spending a lot of money to have a baby. People don't do that when they don't care about the other. They will be upset but I think they will, after the raw emotion simmers down, see that we have a different relationship now.

From the little "bones" my husband has thrown me I see that he is starting to reconcile a new relationship with me. He knows that all the core reasons he fell in love with me are still there. He sees that I am actively doing what I need to do to not have such abandonment issues and not take things so personally. The MC thinks that after seeing those changes and to feel like he is not keeping a secret from his family will be what he needs to move forward and not look back at this again (knowing that there still will be times when he thinks about it but it won't drag him down).

I'll look into the threads of todd's situation. I have no desire to be stuck in a punishment cycle but I wasn't ever really punished before. Yes it was rocky but I always felt that we would get past it (I know, poor wording choice) and have a better marriage despite my mistake. I take this as my retribution but I have far too much self-worth to get stuck in this rut. It feels as if the punishment is ending. I am just unsure if it is ending with together, happy and loving or us apart. My vote is for a marriage full of joy, love and happiness. That is what I deserve despite what I did to jeopardize that possibility.

My fears do not stop me in doing the right thing, they just slow me down. If I gave into my fears I would not be here. If my husband chooses to come here I will be suggesting that he gives a shout out to you for thoughts and help.

Larry,

I’ve re-read your posts and took the time to look through cruisegonebad & todd1967. I would have to say that the main difference is that they (todd?) sound very antagonistic towards one another. While since March 2008 things haven’t been rosey, up until that day, I would have said we had a better relationship. At that time and maybe a little right now, I think my husband would agree. Our MC had asked how we were going to deal with busy season and my husbands response was that all that time away was something that I had trouble with, not him. We failed to think that our history was now different, that things might affect us differently now. I’ve seen that and I’m trying to get enough love units deposited to get him to see that too.

Yes, maybe right now there is emotional turmoil, but I can handle it for a little while. I know what I need to do and I am enacting on a plan to get it. I can follow the plan but that does not mean I will get the ending I desire. I’m all for challenging my husband but through the advice of our MC and Jennifer, I’m just in the mode of depositing as much as I can right now. Jennifer explained some things (which I’m happy to go into but think this is already going to be a long post – some of it for my own good to get it out and read it) and given my husband, it makes complete sense. And unless she is just trying to get some more $$ from us (seems unlikely) I would say that there is hope for us. I just can't afford to talk to her daily. That's why I'm here.

I was thinking about your forgiveness suggestion. I think I can honestly say that I forgave myself in September 2007 when the OM tried to contact me. I know now that I didn’t handle it the best way – just the best way I knew how at the time. Doing that really released me. I felt different and I think it showed to my husband. Up until that day I thought about the damage I had caused to my husband and our marriage everyday, but it wasn’t a useful thought. It was a degrading thought that I was a sl*t and a wh#re who really didn’t deserve what I had and I was constantly waiting for the rug to be pulled out from underneath me.

Flashed forward to March 2008 and because I didn’t protect our relationship enough and the rug was pulled (but it was pulled by both of us). All the self demeaning thoughts came flooding back. I reacted in panic and fear and further escalated my husbands thoughts and fears. That is what I’m working on personally right now. Getting rid of the idiotic thoughts that have plagued me whenever I felt scared so I don’t have those reactions. I just commented to my husband last week how this individual session has made me feel whole and its an odd but welcome feeling. I didn’t know that I missed out on so much of myself.

Inward peace is coming but as much as I don’t blame my childhood traumas on my actions today, I do know that by taking care of the holes they left is making me feel much better. Even when I didn’t realize that I wasn’t feel great. You get use to something and soon you think that is normal. Not the case. Now I don’t want anyone getting all worked up. I take complete responsibility for my choice, my mistake. I only blame myself.

I’ve taken upon myself that my goal this weekend, for the recovery of our relationship, it to introduce him to marriage builders and tell him about the forum I post to. Yes, I said weekend but it is Thursday. It is almost here.

And please, continue offering your thoughts (that goes for all posters). I might not always respond well but generally I am level headed and have the initial shock is gone can take something pretty well. I may not like it.

Blessings,
JLR

Jennifer is gonna give you straight answers. And she isn't gonna waste your time or hers on dragging it out. You are in good hands.

You are getting centered. That is a good thing.

Given the history you now relate, I will pull back a bit. Picture yourself and your husband as being on a razor. Some little thing or large thing will cause you to fall off one direction or the other. You cannot sit on the razor forever. And I am glad you took a look at Todd. The razor is slicing him to pieces and he doesn't even know it. Oh well. . .

There have been so many tens of thousands of people process through here that just about anyone of any state of mind can find some thing to eat. Do encourage your husband to take a look here a see if he has something he wants to process through folks who care.

Larry

I never doubted Jennifer's words/intensions.

If my pulling back you mean give our relationship to get on the recovery road again before telling me to not take this type of relationship, then I thank. If you mean, pull back, your words will no longer offer advice (whether useful or otherwise ) then I cannot agree to the pull back. You see I every possible resource to help get us back onto the recovery road and into the relationship we were meant to have. For the good comments and the bad comments, I'm here to get that.

Hubby works too hard right now, he just had a large influx of work that will last a couple weeks. I'm not counting on him to look here until he feels more solid at work. I have my own thoughts on how we can still get time together while he is working so hard. Can't let a pesky thing like a job negate the positive changes that have taken place the last couple of weeks.

Razor bad to sit on. I prefer a nice soft couch.

Funny thing about getting centered, you don't realize you need it most of the time and wonder why you didn't do this ages ago once it starts to happen. I mentioned this to hubby too - why didn't someone tell me years ago about some of this stuff?

Well my husband is working hard. We are both work slaves and its difficult for me when he does take time off for others. Tomorrow, I just found out, he is taking the day for a golf tournament, which means I get even less of his time tonight. I'm not a crazy possesive type that doesn't think he should play in these golf tournaments - just the type that wants equal time alone and that isn't possible in my husbands mind. He's leaving for a long weekend with some guys for a baseball road trip (they leave Friday and will be back on Sunday).

It's difficult to show him love and care when he isn't around and when he is its spent working away. He is now even too tired for SF, or maybe he just doesn't want it with me (no, there is no affair going on). I really am staying positive about our relationship. Just a little vent about the lack of time together to help me cope when I make it home tonight.

We spoke for a little while this past Friday about us. He has been reading my weekly Jennifer notes and is positive that I cannot be there when he talks to his brother. He isn't sure when he is going to nor does he know what he is going to say. I suppose being unsure is a good sign. I think of it as a way to say, here's what happen but I really need you to support our future together and what do I say to get that reaction. Ramblings of an idiot...I'm the idiot.

Well, a day of golfing for him, and then a long weekend for him with the boys.

Did you spend your 15 hours a week having fun with him last week? The week before? The week before that?

15 hours - maybe not right on that but pretty darn close for the past couple of months. Slowly dwindling because of my husbands work schedule. I've been working less than 40 hours to get things done around the house so we can have more time together instead of having to do those things...but sometimes I have to force my selfish side down because doing all the household is a bit much for me sometimes.

Just with the hours he is putting in to take this time off and then the hours in the following weeks to make up for the time off...when is there time for me? I did ask last week for a few hours and he did. Its not like its always that way...probably just getting anxious.

It sounds like you are both very hard workers. Just be sure that you schedule fun time together.

I look at it like I have about 20 hours a week of free time, between work, keeping the home up, laundry, shopping, etc. So your hubby's plans would eat up ALL of my freetime, plus some, for the week.

What did the two of you do that was fun lately together?

Golf on Sunday. Out to dinner on Friday & then some cards.

One of his brothers is in town from out of state this weekend until Wednesday with his wife and new baby. Just a lot packed into an already over-extended week.

Yes, we both work way too much. I'm in the process of changing jobs that should give me better hours. My husband is in a family business that he loves. It is very seasonal and right now is a very busy time. My former busy season was his slowest time. My thought is with my job change we can vacation during his slowest time and we won't have such opposite working schedules. Then when his busy time comes it won't be so hard on us(me). I won't have just had 4 months of high hours followed by 5-6 months of high hours by him. A little more balance and a lot more fun.

Sounds like you are making plans to change things. That is good.
And what do you do while hubby is off having fun?

Exciting times let me tell you.

It's time for an oil change in my car. Painting the bedroom and living room. I'm sure it will be time to mow again. If I'm feeling nice I thought I would get both of our vehicles cleaned/detailed but I might be a bit tired after the painting. The bedroom has a ton of cutting in to do, which I despise, and will take me a good long time to do.

I am meeting a gf and her friend to take in 9 holes of golf and do have a nice little facial scheduled. I think by then I'll be ready a little reading and napping.

Probably stop by here and see what information I glean and wonder what was said that needs to be edited by moderators and then be thankful that I don't have a clue of what happens. And then it will be time to think about what I read this week and learned and write my next Jennifer note. Oh, and remind myself not to call husband and irritate him while he is gone. He will call and I should be patient for the call.

Husband and I had a nice talk last night. We discussed him telling his family and he said he wasn't planning on talking with his youngest brother, just the middle brother (there are three boys). He didn't think that his youngest brother and wife would have anything positive to say/offer.... That comment sparked me. This is a the basic way the conversation went:

Me: I'm asking this, not because I don't want you to talk to your brother but to understand what you are looking for from talking with him, but what are you hoping to get from him?

Husband: I just need some positive support and I don't think youngest brother will offer that up based on their (brother & SIL) pasts.

Me: So, what you are looking for is someone to help you...say its ok to stay with me.

Husband: I want to make sure that they don't think any less of me for staying with you or any less of you for staying with me.

Me: They would never think less of you and after the initial shock I'm sure they too can learn to trust me again.

Silence while husband process.

Me: It sounds like you want to stay with me and you just need more support. More than talking with the MC or your buddy. Is this true?

Husband: Yes.

Me: Then I ask again, would it be ok if I was there. That I was the one that talks to middle brother and his wife.

Husband: How do you think it would go? I haven't talked to them yet because I don't know how to tell them you cheated on me and I need their support to have a happy future with you.

Me: (after a little silence) I would say something like this - 'Two years ago I was in a very bad place and made the terrible mistake of cheating on husband. I offer no excuses and will answer any questions you have but right now Husband and I need your support in order to be together. Husband is scared that you will think less of him for staying with me, which I know won't be the case, or that you will not be able to look at me the same. I can tell you that I love husband otherwise I would not be here. I have done things to make me a better person and we have worked on strengthing our relationship too. Now we need your acceptance and support to continue our marriage so that it doesn't feel like we are living a lie, keeping a secret.'

Husband: That sounds like a great way to approach it.

This morning I sent an email to SIL to see if they are available next Saturday or Sunday, husband is out of town this weekend for a baseball trip. I see a rainbow for husband and I. Now I just need to find that pot of gold. I knew before that husband needed to have more support for him but I was nervous that the support was more to leave me, or at least a tiny part of me felt that way. Now, I very clearly see that he wants to be with me but can't feel like he is keeping a huge secret from his family.

Any thoughts on how to discuss with BIL & SIL? I have a hard time thinking that they couldn't support us in our marriage and life together if that is what we are asking for but I want to make sure that I do everything that I can to make sure it goes as well as a discussion like this can go.

Thank you.

Sounds like a good plan, and it is very good that you are discussing it together.

Just telling his family that you made a terrible mistake, are very sorry, there is no excuse, but you love your husband and desire their support. They may be disappointed, angry and shocked at first, but I can't imagine them not offering the support. Especially since you and hubby want to work this out.