Mostly because I didn't want him to use it as an excuse to have her show up tonight and ruin my daughter's night. It has been pouring the perverbial cats and dogs here all day, so I tried to do the loving thing and make sure that he had appropriate transportation. We took the truck to a store that is about a block away, but it still stank rotten eggs!!!!
If I am truly honest with myself too, it is because I love him and desire him to do the right thing and come home, not that that is what he is doing. The only real thing that is happenning is that I am making scars, you know when things start going a little good, you pick the "scab" off, look at a picture, venture emotionally too close, read your love notes to each other. But mostly, I have ALWAYS tried very hard to do the loving and right thing even when it hurts, but now I need to start protecting that love and myself dignity!
40 minutes to go time to go pray and I will be back on after the kiddos go to bed to update and get feedback. Thanks for loving me through!

Prayers going up from Southern California that the evening will go well, and you will be strong and calm, a Proverbs31 woman.

Thanks ForeverHers your words always point me in the right direction....to the only one that loves me unconditionally and always, he will never leave me or forsake me, and with and through him all things truly are possible.
I have chewed and I just am not good at the quick responses, I have always struggled in situations when I want to make a good come back with the right words and several hours later I figure one out. I am one of those slow to speak....

Thanks more later.....

AMEN AMEN AND AMEN!!! Thanks so much Believer....

Praying for you now.

Thank you all!!! I definitely felt your prayers. Started out on very shakey ground, but ended wonderfully. Talked a lot, my family was wonderful, my sister and b-in-l showed up too, and they both embraced him and welcomed WH and my parents made small talk too, and it broke the awkwardness. A lot of handholding and hugs before he finally left about 7:30pm, and before he left I kissed his cheek and told him he can call anytime he needs/wants to talk or email or whatever. I told him I love him and reminded him again that he is so worth it then kissed his cheek before leaving and coming into the yard to where the children and my family were playing, so I started playing with them and laughing really laughing for the first time in I think months. It was sooo much fun, I think I am starting to believe that I don't really need him to be happy, but that I choose to want him in my life to share it, and also I believe that is what God wants too (his word says so and everytime I try to close my heart to him, God reopens it, so I'd say the book isn't fully written yet!)
Thank you all and keep helping me to stay positive and keep loving this foggy WH. I want to stay out of God's way but yet be a tool that he can use.
WH wants me to go with him to talk to a company about refinancing some of our debts and consolidating them to make it easier to really focus on paying them off. I am unsure if I should really be involved, but he wants me there for my advice and opinion, not because he wants me to pay it, he said that he realizes that they are a result of his mistakes and bad choices, but that I have always been level and objective with financial matters. What does everyone think? I think it could be a good idea if we get the opportunity to spend more positive time together, but I want to make sure because I am too new at this and I think I am too emotionally connected to make good objective decisions.

Am I allowed to ask others their story for how they made it to recovery and how long the Plan A/ Plan B took to get to the recovery phase? I don't know is there an average length of time for this to happen. My H has been involved with OW since Aug 06 and physical affair began late Nov 06 he moved in with her Mar 31, 08 So I was just wondering the duration of things like this is there some indications?

Of course you can ask. Are you sure you want the "sordid details" though, it can be a little rough on you if you read painful things if you "identify" with the pain?

I want to know how you all made it through and how long the "Silent Years" can last, I want to be a blessing to others, but cannot seem to see or think straight most times and I don't know, but I guess I want some hope from those of you who have gotten so strong! I want to be strong too!
None of us wants to feel any more pain than they need too, but this is my journey and I want to grow, change, and be refined and I don't know how to do that. So, I ask honestly is there any other way?

Refinancing is usually a bad idea. It often just gives people the opportunity to run up more debt.

I wouldn't do it and wouldn't go with him acting as his partner, while he is living elsewhere. Also I would legally protect myself from his financial decisions the best way possible.

As for length of time, his affair is due to end by August if he keeps up with the average. Something like 90% are over within 2 years.

Why don't you simply tell your husband that refinancing right now doesn't make much sense to you since it appears that he doesn't want to be married to you. There is "no point" in refinancing a house for the TWO of you if the "two of you" is him and any other woman. At best, that would be refinacing a "house," but not a "marital home," which you would be unlikely to be able to keep anyway if he continues on a path that does not include YOU in the future. It would be "better" for you (financially) and the children if he is going to divorce you for some other woman to sell the house, as well as better for you so that he can't move into the house with the OW in the future.

"Plans" for a future, like a house, are for a FAMILY, not for self-indulgence.

Tell him you can talk about the house AFTER he decides what he really wants to do.

Besides, if he does go the "divorce route," he is very likely going to have to "contribute" by court order.

Why don't you ask him the next time he brings this up if it might not make more sense at this time to contact a Realtor about selling the house rather than contacting someone to refinance a house you are not both living in as husband and wife?

Consequences, klb. His actions have consequences. Don't "bail him out" of having to face those consequences. And yes, I know you don't want to sell, but his consequences WILL also affect you and the children, and he needs to "See" that too. The "fantasy" is NOT "all fun and games." There ARE "Real Life" consequences that he, you, and the children will have to pay just so he can "live a lie."


God bless.

Thank you Believer. I have been wondering about the timeframe because I have been seeing signs of instability and breakdown, but don't understand all the stats and ins and outs of affairs on that side of things. I have been reading and trying to learn, I want to be able to be a blessing to someone else, and get strong.

I laughed for the first time yesterday! What a silly milestone to be proud of, but I am. It was nice to genuinely feel good and happy. I am glad to not feel sadness all the time. I am proud of the great time and talk my WH and I had, but I really had such a good time watching my daughter receive all the badges she earned this year in Brownies, I was so proud of all her hardwork and dedication in spite of all the pain and trials this year! And, it was fun to play a huge game of monkey in the middle with my entire family (ages 1-60). We laughed so hard at times we almost wet ourselves, and when my family went home I actually watched a movie and did my devotions in peace and happiness. YEAH ME!!!

He is still living with OW, and I agree with the finances thing, my name is not on the debts that he is wanting to refinance, that was the one reason I wasn't worried about going or helping him because ultimately they are his, I was glad that he asked me, but I see your point and quite honestly he is still wayward, so I don't want to be too involved because right now I think he still wants cake and pie. Stable steady submissive supportive wife and exciting OW.

Sorry let me clarify, the refinance that he would like me to help with is for a bunch of credit debts that he would like to consolidate to make making the payments easier (WH has ADD) for him to only have one payment versus 7.

Okay, update, WH and I spoke on phone earlier and he has upgraded from he hates me and wants a divorce to he doesn't know what he wants, he is confused, but doesn't want to continue hurting me and the children. I said that I am fully 100% committed to our marriage and that he needs to make the decision to be committed to our marriage and children also that that had to be 100% his decision.
Also, I told him that since he was not living as my husband right now that I could not accompany him to the bank to help him refinance some of these debts, I hoped that he was doing it for the right reasons.
I ended the call telling him that I love him. He asked me to call him back later so we could talk more. I don't know if emotionally I am up for more today, also if he doesn't know, then what else do we talk about? We seem to have good conversations and he told me that I was a good woman and wife, but that we didn't make each other happy anymore that he had changed so much, he seems to focus on that, so I ask what he likes to do when he isn't working and try to encourage him to talk about his likes and such, but so far he isn't talking too much. Any suggestions for getting him to open up and trust again?

Good job! You need to sweetly let him know that his affair will beed to end before the two of you act as a team anymore. Keep up your resolve not to help him refinance. The more money problems he has while living with the OW, the better.

That is what will shorten the affair!

I totally understand, and see the prudence in this wisdom. WH has court appearance on Thurs. for a speeding ticket he received a few months ago. The Dist Justice that he is appearing before is a former co-worker of both WH and OW and he is disgusted by my H's actions, so I think that will be a good reality check for WH. WH also confessed that he hit a mirror on another vehicle and he has to pay for that also. Also, OW got fired from the place that they met! So, financial pressures are mounting drastically!!!
I just pray that I can find some additional strength within myself and my relationship with God! I am feeling so tired emotionally, I keep seeking God and relying on his promises. I love the Lord, and know that he will never leave or forsake me, and that he can do exceedingly above anything I could ever ask or imagine. I know that 2 months alone is nothing, but I haven't even had a break from my children in all that time, there is always reasons why no one can take them, and I understand and realize that is God's way of saying that I am supposed to be here for some reason, I just wish that I knew the lessons that I haven't learned, and that I could learn them and make God proud of me!
How do go forward from here, do I keep contacting him or let hhim reach out next? Does anyone have a good site for good e-cards? I was thinking that I could start sending some nice cards every so often. Our wedding anniversary is also coming up, do I acknowledge it? if so, how? What about Father's Day? He didn't call or anything for Mother's Day, in fact his parents took the OW out for Mother's Day dinner to welcome her to the family (Ouch!) I know this isn't about me right now, but it still hurts.
Another question, WH bought another car, so he has two right now, and he wants to give me our Expedition back to me, however the payments are $435/month and with $500/week I can't afford that, so what should I do? I need a vehicle, I can't get to the grocery store, the doctor's office, anywhere, so what do I do? I need transportation, but I don't want to feel like he has done me a great favor that he could call up for return at any time, not that he is a vindictive man, but given the fact that he is with another woman he is clearly not the man that I fell in love with!

klb, this is "fogtalk." Let him talk like this if he wants to try to rationalize what he is choosing to do, but YOU ignore this sort of talk. Just "let it go in one ear and out the other."




He can't "open up and trust again." To do so would require acknowledging that what he is doing is wrong and a willful SIN against God.

For example, when he says, "we didn't make each other happy anymore," he has lost sight of the fact that we MAKE our happiness, it doesn't just happen by chance. How "happy" do you really think he is, or will be, knowing that the OW is, herself, a cheater at heart with no respect for the sanctity of marriage or the UNHAPPINESS that she is visiting upon your children?

Take the "happiness" thing and "shove it." There are happy times and sad times, good times and bad times, easy times and hard times, healthy times and sick times, etc., etc., etc.. THAT is what Marriage IS.

Here, read this one again:

THE BLESSING IN "NO"
=====================

I asked God to take away my pride.
God said "No."
It is not for Me to take away,
but for you to give it up.

I asked God to make my handicapped child whole.
God said "No."
Her spirit was whole,
her body was only temporary.

I asked God to grant me patience.
God said "No."
Patience is a byproduct of tribulations;
it isn't granted,
it is earned.

I asked God to give me happiness.
God said "No."
I give you blessings,
happiness is up to you.

I asked God to spare me pain.
God said "No."
Suffering draws you apart from worldly cares
and brings you closer to Me.

I asked God to make my spirit grow.
God said "No."
You must grow on your own,
but I will prune you to make you fruitful.

I asked for all things that I might enjoy life.
God said "No."
I will give you life so that you may enjoy all things.

I ask God to help me LOVE others, as much as He loves me.
God said... Ahhhh, finally you have the idea!

Author Unknown

(MountainWings #3217 A MountainWings Moment




You have the indwelling Holy Spirit, klb. He IS in relationship with you and He has all the strength you need. He even "groans" in words the Father understands for you when you don't know how to put what you want to say into words.



This, AND he bought another car?

Don't you dare give into temptation and take that Expedition financial load off of him!

Talk to your church and see if anyone can help you out temporarily with some transportation.

And while we are mentioning the church, what has the Pastor been up to with respect to a Matthew 18:15-20 intervention? WHO is, is anyone is, talking to your husband about HIS relationship with God?



klb, I want to say this with all gentleness, but also with all firmness.....stop this immediately! You HAVE learned the lessons and you are allowing yourself to be lead into even new lessons in walking with the Lord. God IS proud of you...you are His faithful child. Why on earth would God not be proud of you? Have you forgotten that ALL of your sins have already been forgiven by God and that there is no "stain" remaining? I, and no one else either, can be with you 24 hours a day 365 days a year...but God can and does. Do you think He would do that for someone He is not proud of?

But if you really need it, I have a small vial of "magic, instant, God is proud of me, angeldust" (not the awful fake angeldust you can buy from a local pusher). This stuff will make you instantly perfect, but be careful with it, I only have enough of it to match the size of a mustard seed. It's enough, though, if you use it properly.



Yes I do, if you really want it. Go easy on the cards and contact, though. He needs to feel God's displeasure with him and his blatant sin.

klb, those of us who have been through what you are going through know how LOOOOOONG each day seems. We know how DRAINING on the emotions this is and how hard it is to remain focused. Invest some time in the children. Let yourself have some fun with them and some time when you DON'T think about your husband and your marriage. We all know how you are thinking about the situation almost ALL the time. What you need to do is take a little of that time when you are occupied with the kids, or with anything, that will "take all of your mind" for a while. In short, schedule yourself some to NOT think about the affair and just let God handle what needs to be handled when you can't assist Him because you can't be mentally "in two places at the same time." God can, and you can "rest" in the knowledge that He CAN "handle things without you" for a while.

God bless.

Thank you ForeverHers, I can always count on you to give me a good smack upside the head to shake the cobwebs loose and realize what I already have, but forget or just shift to the side. I actually have that poem printed and framed in my office! I forget that valleys are long and hard.


NO ONE! Sorry to shout, but I am exasperated, the pastor called him Saturday to tell him he is praying for him and loves him and wants to see him come to church, that there are many who want to help him through this time. AHHHH! I know that they want to draw him back to the fold, but I feel as if no one has a backbone to really say the truth of the situation to him but me!! I am the only one who is calling what he is doing sin to him, he admits it as sin and a mistake, but not something he is ready to break free from yet... I feel as if I am the fall back girl, he just continues to drag out the affair and when it ends that he will say oh well I guess I'll go home. I want to be his choice, not a leftover!


Yeah, I think he thinks that I am just sitting here a miserable mess just crying and pining away for him. I admit there are times that I am a mess over the betrayal and destruction of our precious family, but I am NOT taking that truck payment on, he said that he would continue to pay it but let me have the truck or give me the car that he bought when it is inspected, but I really don't want to take any favors that could come back to bite me in the butt later from him. There is absolutely no temptation on the truck, cant afford the payments or really to drive it on the little that I am getting in support with all the other bills. As for the church, my friends are getting me there most of the time and my parents are helping as they are able. I am truly grateful for all of them, but it is getting difficult as I have 2 in carseats, so that makes it a lot for a typical family to add to their own.

Thank you for the reminder about time, it will be much easier starting next week too, I start my graduate classes, so I will have even more to focus on as I am going to college online to obtain my master's degree, so I can re-enter the workforce and be able to provide for my children.

Question: When I was working on the questionaires for the EN's and Lovebusters, how should I effectively evaluate those questions, before the 2 years of this affair when he and I were "normal" because it is hard to really answer some of it because he has been so unstable that he is one way one minute and another the next. Much like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde.
Also, he asks me to call just about everyday, should I do that or should I just call like once a week or what? I want to fill him with the positive Plan A woman, and I see that the positive interactions are making him confused because he is seeing and liking the changes, but when should he be called to a choice, his family or her, or do I just keep on keeping on and let God decide?

klb, I am not fit to offer any advice right now. I'll have to ask you bear with me a little while

Right now I am just short of "volcanic" and trying very hard not to explode!

Pray for him, love him, want to see him come to church....I want to vomit!

Pray for him I understand and agree. But pray for WHAT?

Love him I understand, but love WHAT about blatant willful disobedience and sin against Christ who was beaten and DIED for him?

Want him to come to church....for WHAT, so they can welcome a practicing adulterer and "lovingly condone" his active rebellion against God?

klb, are there ANY men in that church who believe church DISCIPLINE as a COMMAND of God, and as a command BY God TO the church, something that should be obeyed even if it makes them "uncomfortable?"

Somebody who STANDS for Christ needs to lovingly CONFRONT a brother who is willfully sinning, up to and including hanging out the "not welcome in this church until you repent" sign, if the steps of church discipline need to go that far because of his incalcitrance. EITHER he IS believer or he is NOT.

But YOU are a believer AND the Betrayed Spouse...and, in my not so humble righteous anger...the Pastor needs to get off his "conflict avoidance buttocks" and be obedient to God's command to him as the shepard of that local flock.


"there are many who want to help him through this time." WHAT??? Helping him comes AFTER he repents and ends the affair. If they want to help him through this, then go and confront him about willful sin and the FACT that NO unrepentant adulterer will be in heaven. IS he saved? Then end the affair now and obey God. Period. Help him once he has done that and help to restore him to fellowship, but NOT until he has surrendered TO God. Don't take this wrong, but I don't give one whit if he thinks he isn't "happy." He was "bought and paid for" by Christ's blood and death. If THAT wasn't enough to "earn" his obedience, then he is NOT a believer and the "bigger issue" IS his soul and where he will be "happy" or not for all eternity.

Can you tell I'm upset?

If I could talk to your Pastor I would ask HIM one simple question. "Pastor, do you believe that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, Word of God and that, as believers it is our obligation to God to obey His commands to each one of us who claims to be saved by the grace of God?"

His answer to that question should be very revealing and it should result in being obedient to Matthew 18:15-20 as well as any other commands of God TO believers.

klb, is there no one in that church who CAN talk with your husband about what it means to BE an obedient SERVANT of God?

Thank you for your vocanic erruption, quite honestly that is what I expected from my church and family. I think everyone wants to be loving and all because they know my WH and he doesn't respond well to being told what is what. The funniest thing of all of this is that he believes that all things are either black or white, well he certainly isn't living proof of that, he is just tepid if that!

I know that when I expressed to the pastor that I was a part of Dr. Harley's MB site and that I was in Plan A right now he expressed a desire to know when I move to Plan B so that he could come down on him then, I don't know if he is misunderstanding that I am supposed to be the one showing loving acts to meet his EN's or what?????
I agree with you about conflict avoidance big time! He has shown that trait greatly.

As for when to move to Plan B, I feel that the time is coming swiftly that he will need to be cut off from us, so that he doesn't continue to think that I will condone this eternally and that he can put off making a decision regarding one or the other. I truly feel compassion and empathy for this other woman, in so much as I know what it feels like to love something and have it wreak havoc on your life being torn and back and forth between two women. However, I believe completely that my WH was the gift that God gave to me on our wedding day and despite the fact that he has made that gift "appear" as trash, with a little love and care he and I would both be able to see the true treasures that God gave us in one another.

I really need to build my own self confidence, for far too long I have allowed the hurtful things his parents have said about me and how inadequate of a woman, wife, and mother I am to my WH and in general affect my confidence, and had gone from an outgoing interactive person to a very shy and quiet behind the scenes person, also the pastor had asked that I step down from all ministry positions during this time so that I could focus on my family and marriage. As I can see the partial, human wisdom in this, it is hard to buy into that as I have no husband or marriage to work on right now, so I am feeling lost.

Thank you again for your righteous anger, it truly helped because I feel as though I am the only one who is feeling that frustration and anger about to errupt!

Have a good day, my friend is picking us up for Bible Study, we are studying Naomi, Ruth and Orpah today.

God bless....