Darn...I was hoping for the half-closed, sleepy, one-eyed squint look.

Oh, well...

:::accepting what I have no control over:::



LA

LA, my sleepy take on it was, "This, too, shall pass." I do respect what he chooses, but I'm not sure that I am living by my code. I feel like I'm making things easy for him.

I think that in the past, that I may well have enabled him by standing by angrily while he does these things. I'm still not really sure what actions would reflect my integrity. My tendency when I'm upset with him is to retreat into doing things that are enriching to me, not taking the effort to initiate time together. I am really making an effort this time to do things like put a hand on his shoulder when I walk by, choosing to nuture that connection. But then I wonder if I'm reinforcing to him that I have no bounaries, that he can do as he pleases and it doesn't affect my love bank towards him.


Your H protects your marriage...you are already safe.

If you expect punishment, you will experience it. You know I know that from experience.

LA, I can really feel that today. I went home even though I was afraid, and it was okay.


Breathe...relax...and check yourself...re-center. Fear is a spinner...know when you're spinning.

Thanks for the reminder about my fears being old. Talking them out, shining a light on them, I see what I'm afraid of more clearly. I fear whether DD12 would be okay without me out there. I have a family lawyer friend, I can inquire as to whether I have "teeth" here. I fear the response. He's threatened to leave me before. Yesterday, I was O&H that I want him to stay until we rebuild stronger, because I want to protect our marriage. He said that if I made any moves to stop him, it would kill our marriage.



Yes, I rememeber where I felt justified to do this, too. Even when I didn't act in the way that I felt justified to.


I agree, there will be time to talk about SoCal. Yes, I've had these goals for a long time. Thanks for the validation.

Acting from my goal. He wants me to go out for a week with DD7. My goal is connection, but it feels like that would be enabling. I don't have to decide that anytime soon, though.



Because I am having a hard time with acceptance. I am really angry at what I'm being told. At the disrespect I feel.



Totally thrilled. And her sister is glad to stay.

Cat, thanks for being here. Thanks for the validation. I do want to support him even to the point that my needs get put aside, but that isn't healthy for our marriage. I've built so much resentment that way. I haven't seen the show, so thanks for the explanation.

I don't want to go because we're so unstable. It made things worse, not better for us. I don't call H an alcoholic, because he's never been diagnosed by a specialist, but I'm married to a man who has habits including heavy drinking that impact me deeply, and vows or not, I'd be dishonest if I said that I can commit to living with those behaviors for a lifetime. I could say, I won't divorce him, but I may well get to the point that I have to leave the home temporarily or longer for my own peace of mind. If we moved out there, if I had to get out, then in addition to taking the kids out of their home, I'd have to move far away with them, too, because I can't afford to live out there alone. I'm not planning to do that, but it'd be irresponsible to not take that into account. I agree that it's important to understand why we think how we think.

[[[EO]]] <--strong hugs 'cuz I just wanna...


Feel or believe? Takes one to generate the other. Is there a hidden DJ?

Great to know you went home, anyway.


Are you rephrasing? "I hear you saying that if you interpret my actions as trying to stop you that you will choose to end our marriage, is that correct?"

Good information to have...make sure your brain hears it as it really is...that you aren't more than half, at any time, so you really can't end the marriage through your actions, other than to divorce.

Don't take the bait...don't go back into the old perceptions, 'k?

Your anger may be in part coming from your failed expectations (for him to not say/do/feel); part from his "abandoning" choices; would you consider a hunk of it would be from you taking his truth as the truth? His perceptions as fact?

Would that be some of why you're angry at what you're being told?

That's my filter wondering if underneath your underneath layer, there isn't a "He wants to get away from me" going on...same for travelling...this part of H pulled to SoCal. Any of that in there? Some part of "you're making me want to..."?

And part of him stating his stuff as fact instead of owning it?

You can accept he has this great desire in him, about him, from his stuff...and not approve of it...acceptance is separate. He wants for his reasons...and I don't think he has really told you all of them...or maybe, even, revealed to himself...

You know you cannot stop him from his choices...you just make your own. Remember that, 'k?

I love knowing you're continuing to act from love...the physical affection, acknowledgment...you continuing to speak respectfully, with ownership...rather than "if he doesn't, I won't"...I feel inspired.

I hadn't realized how much I screwed up my question about DDs until you quoted me...ack...so you're saying that both DDs are happy that DD12 isn't going?

LA

I'm pretty consistent with listen and repeat on these confusing things, and H has even been doing some, too. But that kind of shut me down. My choice. I'm glad that you caught that.

DD12 thinks that she's going, and that's why she's thrilled. DD7 is staying, and is hapy with that. I told H that I want to work as a united front here. I want to get on the same page with him, and then tell DD12 that she'll be staying. But to be honest, I don't see us working this one out. I think it will be like the Las Vegas trip, where he does what he wants and I stand by observing. I have a family law friend, and I emailed her, but I don't have her phone number. But to be honest, I don't know if I have any recourse in the first place, since we're together. And even if I did have legal recourse, wow, that's way more than I can even imagine. I am so afraid that would be "the last straw" for him. His choice.

I'm listening to my inner voice. Remembering the last time I felt this cornered, last summer when he pushed me in the face and I didn't call the police, because I was so fearful of sending the wrong message to the kids. That their Dad doesn't keep us safe, that we need to call outside folks to do that. Looking back, I sent them the message that it's okay to hit your spouse, to be hit. I feel the same fear here. That if I do anything, it will send the kids a strong message, and if I don't, that will, too.

I think that the unspoken reason he wants to go out there this summer so he can have space for IB, and no one will know. There, I said it.

Glad you said it.

Revealed it to yourself, too...because that's the sneaky DJ...infiltrates your expectations, hence, your emotions.

You don't know...

You're still not comfortable with not knowing...

Understandable.

Makes it hard to address actions when we DJ intent.

So DD12 wants to go...to pursue bookings with her manager from last year...being with dad...feeling older and adventurous? Have you listened to her about her expectations?

Back to the sneaky DJ...would you consider that's from you buying into H's belief that you stop/make/hinder him in his drinking? Cause/control/cure...'member? Which is why you don't go to his whys...or you end up trapping yourself...and you're free, EO.

Doesn't matter if the outcome ends up as you secretly predicted or not...not about outcome...about you partnering from love and respect.

Man, I'm a drag, aren't I?

LOL

LA

You're right, LA, if that's what he wanted to do, he could easily find a way to justify to do that here. I don't know what it's about.

ears I heard something and thought of you. NPR said that house prices in California have dropped an average 25%-30%! Like a house that cost $650,000 last year is now worth $425,000! So one little glimmer of good news, in case you do end up going there.

Cat, thanks for thinking of me, and that is good to know. Of course, our home has gone down by 20 to 30%, too, from the highs a few years ago, but still a lot higher than we bought it at.

I'm feeling a lot better than yesterday. I think I was so fuzzy on what my actions would be because like you said, LA, I'm letting my focus go to the response. H was saying, "I think we should just split up again." I had that "A-ha" moment that I have a plan and am acting with integrity, and that's all I can do. Not stress myself about whether my actions are honest. I already know that. When I am off track, that information is LOUD and CLEAR, not something hidden.

EO - Just wanted to chime in to let you know that I'm here and reading. I don't have anything to add or offer yet, but I'll let you know as soon as I do.

ears, saw this and thought of you:

One Flaw In Women

Women have strengths that amaze men.

They bear hardships and they carry burdens, but they hold happiness, love and joy.

They smile when they want to scream.

They sing when they want to cry.

They cry when they are happy and laugh when they are nervous.

They fight for what they believe in.

They stand up to injustice.

They don't take 'no' for an answer when they believe there is a better solution.

They go without so their family can have.

They go to the doctor with a frightened friend.

They love unconditionally.

They cry when their children excel and cheer when their friends get awards.

They are happy when they hear about a birth or a wedding.

Their hearts break when a friend dies.

They grieve at the loss of a family member, yet they are strong when they think there is no strength left.

They know that a hug and a kiss can heal a broken heart.

Women come in all shapes, sizes and colors.

They'll drive, fly, walk, run or e-mail you to show how much they care about you.

The heart of a woman is what makes the world keep turning.

They bring joy, hope and love.

They have the compassion and ideas.

They give moral support to their family and friends.

Women have vital things to say and everything to give.



HOWEVER, IF THERE IS ONE FLAW IN WOMEN,

IT IS THAT THEY FORGET THEIR WORTH.

Seabird, thanks for being here. I kind of was afriad that I was missing omething that was obvious to everyone else. Like when I'm trying to get the kids out the door in the morning, and find that the oatmeal burned on the stove because I was working on something else. I have done that a LOT!

I feel more connected with reality today I see a lot of parallels, how we can get extremely tied to someone else's perspective, and take that as truth. When it is simply a perspective. You give me hope, Seabird, that I can handle whatever happens. That my kids will, too.


Cat, thank you so much for that poem. I have seen it before, but I needed to hear that today. I am mad that my H says that he wants to split. I believe that even with my shortcomings, I am a really special wife and mother and friend and person.

Want to hear something funny? When he was telling me yesterday what a drag I am, what pom said over the weekend popped in my head. Not as justification or anything, just struck me as funny somehow. "At least you're not getting hit." I think I really understood, finally, what he was getting at. That there is unacceptable behavior that we need to protect ourselves from, and we can separate that from the stuff that we have the power to change and make a distant memory.

There was also another post on GQII to our EN poster aprilshowers. About "taking it to over." Did you read that one, cat? It made me think of something that LA and others have said, "I don't talk divorce, I talk marriage." It helped me to have that phrase in my head.

I don't believe that my H is going to split. This is a pattern with us, something he says out of frustration. I believe that we can work together to get past today's frustration.

Ears - One of the most surprising things I've learned throughout all of this is just how strong our ability to survive is, and just how adaptable we as humans are in the face of both emotional and physical harm.

I read the book "Band of Brothers" (saw the mini-series too) several years ago. In case you're not familiar, it's about a group of WW2 soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division called E Company (aka, Easy). When my own situation seemed impossible and untenable, I would remember their stories (their training, the winter battle in the Ardennes without enough food or equipment, and one of the earliest liberations of a concentration camp in Austria) and I'd gain a fresh perspective. These guys, many permanently wounded, came home and resumed their lives with families and friends. They carried their scares and their scars with them along the way, but they survived and even thrived.

I think you're doing fine. Whatever your own outcome and the outcome of your M, remember that you have your own choices to make. My advice is to strive to do what you think is right without worrying about affecting a result. To work without any end in mind. What you think is right by God, or whatever points your moral compass.

Sound advice, Seabird, and I'm glad that I'm back in the frame of mind to understand it. Thanks!

I'm not up late because I can't sleep, it's because I got a call from work asking me to log onto the network and check something. I'm working to do a good job with my self-care, including getting enough rest.

But since I'm up, I wanted to share, H booked his ticket and DD12's. I can't say I'm shocked. I haven't decided what to do yet, but I'm not flustered and not spinning.

We're going back to the MC tomorrow, and we actually did the homework we got. I'm really happy about that. It was to write out what your perfect relationship looks like, using "we" statements in the positive and in the present. Mine was easy, I made positive statement around my top ENs. Like "We are open and honest with each other." H seemed like it was easy for him, too. Then we compared lists, underlined the ones that were the same, ranked them, and ordered them. We did this Wednesday, I forgot to update about that because I was kind of flustered about the other stuff. But I am happy that I can choose my focus, and focus on the work that we're doing.

DD12 has lost 6 pounds, and everyone's telling her she looks great. I had to buy her a new belt, because all her pants were falling down. We've been working on affirmations together. Her nutritionist gave her some healthy eating guidelines, and she's not even suffering; and she's eating until she's full. I'm really happy for her success in this.

I'm sorry about the tickets...just don't know what to say. I almost feel like it's a test. I hope not.

That's great about D12. Are you changing what you fix for meals? I kept meaning to get D17 to spend time in the kitchen with me, but I hate cooking so much I just never got around to it. But I have a whole 3 inch notebook full of Weight Watchers recipes I printed out from their website, and wanted to learn how to make them. Do you do stuff like that?

Thanks, cat. I can see where I contributed to it getting this far from POJA and boundaries. He took DD12 to NYC in 2002, to try it out there acting and modeling over the summer, when she was 6 and and DD7 was 1. We went to share with another acting family an apartment in a roach and rat infested tenement with no AC, the two girls sharing a port-a-crib with a mosquito net over them. I couldn't take it, and left after a month with the baby, but I left my older DD there against my wishes. We had a lot of fun there, too, but I needed to put my foot down when I saw the living conditions. Not trying to justify it, but H and I grew up in bad conditions, too, so I did didn't want to make a big deal about "nothing." I didn't feel like an equal decision maker. I do now. I will figure out how to keep DD12 safe.

I've been cooking pretty healthy for years now. The girls do like to help their Dad and I in the kitchen, and DD12 even cooks sometimes. I have a WW cookbook, but it's not stuff that the little one eats. The girls used to be really picky eaters, and then I hated to cook, too, but they're growing out of that. They learn about nutrition at school, too, so then we go to the store and they show me the things they tried at school and liked. I'm really glad their school gets involved, because I think it's a problem for a lot of families here. They get rewards in school for fitness activities, too.

I think the biggest change she made foodwise was that she stopped getting a seconds on lunch at school and at dinner. The nutritionist went through her food log, and suggested healthier options, like whole wheat bread instead of regular, and a handful of nuts for a filling afterschool snack instead of getting seconds for dinner.

This is great! That's the way to do it - just small changes, changes that you can live with on a long-term basis - lifestyle changes, not diets.

Geez, he bought the tickets? Do I have this straight - you were firm about not wanting him to, and he did anyway? If I understand correctly, you not wanting him to buy DD12's ticket was still in effect. Your feeling of "you're going to do what you want anyway" seems to have come true. Did you discuss this? Did it come up in MC? What's going to happen if he wants to move the whole family out there?