Wow sorry for the bad day yesterday everyone. I'm gonna have those and need to learn how to handle them. It's going to be a rough road and probably a longer one then I thought to start obviously but I will continue to work hard at giving her what she needs and wants and I hope slowly and surely they increase and we can build back our love. I know I can give her the love she wants and deserves. At this time she doesn't think I can but I will work hard to change that perception, not to manipulate or change her but to instead give her what shes deserved from me for so long now. I truly love her deeply because I know I wouldn't go thru this much for someone I didn't.

Bring,

Can we talk some more please? I think we can help each other. In your posts it helps me to see more of my WAW's side of things. It might not be her exact views or situation but it does help and it also helps me to hear thee effects it had on you so I can understand more. It's even making me realize things about myself.

I'd love to talk more with you ezb. I'm sorry I got away from posting to this thread for a while. I try to limit my time on MB to the wee morning hours before H and kids are up; I'm also posting on a thread with LA which might interest you...it's "Getting the Love You Want" book discussion.

From what I've read in multiple books, women don't just leave on the spur of the moment...it takes a long time (usually) for a woman to get to that point...in my case, I concur with that assessment. In realizing that, your wife is going to have to see long term change...she doesn't trust that your changes are permanent and she won't until she sees them consistently for a period of time.

Do you and your wife practice any type of faith? Also, assuming you've read most of Dr Harley's books/materials, what other books have you read? I've tried to get my H to read some stuff which hits the nail on the head, but he reads some type of war novels like a chain smoker smokes cigarettes...one after another.

Bring,

Thanks for coming back. I have read a little of that thread yes but like you I have been trying to limit time.

Yes it took her a long time to get to this point and I was blind and dumb to the fact it was getting there. Since the shortly after the papers I have done a complete 180 and have realized so many things and realize more each day. She seems to be getting further away though instead of remaining at least the same in order to see if that change is permanent. Another thing to is that like most walk aways she seems to be picking apart every little thing I'm doing and her comments are confrontational and condeming (trying to validate her staying on the course she has choosen I would imagine). I've handled that well lately I think though with just positives back and will do my best to keep it that way. I can take the heat for now and realize I deserve it, I gave her enough heat before to make up for it.

We're not religous no and thats something that just won't get involved in all of this. We respect everyones choice to a faith though. My only faith right now is in the things that I'am doing are right and having faith in the love we have for each other and that it will prevail.

I have my fill of books at the moment. I have read the 5 love languages, I'm currently reading Loving Solutions by Gary Chapman (really hard on me right now because she has no loving attitude, which I can understand, because I know if she was practicing loving solutions also our bond would go thru the roof right now) and my next 2 books are Love Busters (got it yesterday) and Codependent no more, how to stop controlling others and start caring for yourself. I have 5 or 6 other books at home I plan on reading that will help me learn how to better give her the love I did before and the love she deserves and wants. All these books I have been highlighting in and I will be keeping them so I can reference in the future and review to help make the changes permanent along with keeping all my notes organized. Ever since all this 3 months ago though I have done nothing but work on it day and night except for a few occasions that I have needed to go out and get a breather, when my kids are with me and over the holiday weekend when I spent time with family and worked on a special project for her. I hope she likes it though, it's finished and waiting for her to see. I poured all my unconditional love into that and into reading, learning and changing even though she hass remained steadfast in going thru with the divorce.

I'm taking everything in on her feedback and listening the best I can (yes there aare mistakes) and when she gives me something she thinks I should be looking into I haave jumped on it right away. Example is the start of this thread. All she did was ask me to think about the things I did and what her feelings might have been. For me to just think about it I wouldn't grasp it fully so I wrote some of the hurtful things down and listing all I thought she was feeling. I've asked for us to go over this list together so can validate those feelings and whatever others she was having so I can make sure I understand properly. I think thats very important towards the permanent change I want. But thats up to her.

We have only a week and a half before the divorce goes to trial and after that I don't know what will happen. I'll continue to read and learn though for me and pray shes still open for things but I have no idea what it will do to my feelings and to my heart.

She has also said that we need away time together from these problems (dating) and I have been totally all for that. The LB I have done though for NC days has interfered with that. I respect her feelings on that. We haven't had it at all though and she has turned me down and left me hanging and those actions have effected my emotions negatively. I'm trying to overlook that and remain positive.

What also isn't helping is that she had asked to go to counseling before and I turned it down because of a past experience in my child hood with a therapist that has haunted me (have since let go of that). I set this counseling up so now she has a bad outlook to it because of the controlling person I became she feels this is on my terms. Everything is in her hands now though, the divorce agreement and whether or not to turn it in, the divorce trial (June 10th) and whether or not to assk for an extension, whether she wants to even communicate now or if she puts the divorce thru after that. She has had all the control and I have shown that I understand that feeling for the past 3 months and have worked harder and harder at making changes to myself.

One other thing is there have been quite a few missed opportunities since she filed. These opportunities would have totally changed where we are at right now and were all not mistakes just missed chances. If this doesn't work out and she walks away for good I feel those will haunt us both for the rest of our lives.

Would it help to realize that you always have a chance of getting back together, even if you divorced? It might take a few years, but consider that you'd be going back into it wiser, older, and more dedicated, if the two of you decide to give it another try. And if not, think of how much you've learned this past year, and how much better a husband you will be for someone else. Many women would kill for a man who makes the effort to learn this stuff.

Yes cat I have thought about it but at this time I have no idea what the actual divorce day will do to me and my heart. We'll see either way I suppose but my changes now and the future ones I make have great potential to explode our bond into something spectacular. I don't think I could handle a year or 2 being like this because my attachment and love for her is so strong it would rip me to shreds along with my heart. I realize she went thru a long time of heartache also but during that time I did do some good things and we were together. I don't feel together with her right now and I'm sure she doesn't either so I don't know what effect it will have.

Either way I don't think I could give my heart to another ever in my lifetime. This is the first time I have been crushed losing someone I love so deep and right now all she sees is ulterior motives and that my change will not be permanent.

Why would she not kill to start bonding back again with me learning all these things? It's the love she wants and deserves and it's waiting here for her to take and all she can do is move further away

Because YOUR love brings baggage with it. That's not a criticism of you, just the way people work.

Can I suggest that you look into finding a situation in which you can do some volunteering? Be it working with kids, helping the elderly, joining a conservation group, Meals on Wheels, whatever appeals to you. The best way to get over a devastation is to redirect your thoughts into helping someone or something that is in worse shape than you are. Kind of a way to keep your mind and body busy while you're healing.

Guess I'll understand that then and let her make her choice. I feel it's one we will both regret forever and if there's going to be regrets then not everything was tried. It can be worked out though we just have never tried like it should have been done and that was my fault. I will find a waay to live with that and I hope for her sake she will find a way to live with this one should she end up walking away forever. In the meantime I will just keep trying my best to save things and make the changes permanent.

I'll end up having to get a second job to make ends meet from the bills we got together but thank you for the suggestion it is a good one.

I'm in no way, shape or form putting down the MB principles and I'm not sure if she tried them fully or not but I do know one thing for sure and thats that not every method will work to wake someone up and make them realize the true situation. She woke me fully up a couple months ago and isn't that the basis of the methods to save a marriage? What had failed in the past was tried yes but what has happened here and now has succeeded. There is work to be done and a lot of it by me and I'm doing that work and succeeding in it but only partially. If she does go for good and we don't work this out together then it would have once again failed to succeed when there is more promise and hope then there ever was.

Ok rough morning. Stay the course, show her I love her the ways she allows and learn. This is also about broken promises I made, I will no longer break anymore. It was asked about the LB I keep doing. Well that LB is part of an agreement I made. I have broken that agreement and therefore her feelings on that aspect is that I haven't and won't change. Obviously I need it tattoed to the back on my hand. I find reasons to contact her on NC days (consiouly or subconsiously doesn't matter) her feeling is that its mnipulating. End of story, respect, understand and show you care about that feeling.

Just talking to myself I guess lol.

I went to a stress therapist for awhile, and she told me to find out what triggered my stress. For me, at the time, it was my H calling, because he inevitably griped at me. So she had me put a sticker on my phone, just a little orange dot. Every time the phone rang, and I turned to answer it, I'd see the dot and remember to take a deep breath before answering the phone. The deep breathing helps people get calmer, you know. It really worked.

What can you do to trigger yourself not to call her? can you put a sticker on your phones, to remind you? Print out a calendar with days you CAN call marked, and check them off as you make a call? Something conscious, to help guide you.

I've found writing things down in my notes and actually looking at it from being her feelings standpoint has helped me understand better. Problem there is it makes me think and focus and I come up with all these new revelations and realizations and want to communicate that to her. I need a hobby lol. Thats whaat my project did for me over the weekend but I still sent a couple things and LBed. I will get better just need to get comfortable and it does help if theres something positive going on with us but I'm always looking for the positive and she always sees the negative so it gets hard.

Why don't you start a journal for her, whenever you have the urge to contact her? Write down everything you want to tell her in it, just keep adding to it, and when you're ready, give it to her.

Thank you cat. I have done that with a few things. I think the big issue is that I'm overwhelming her with all the realizations and knowledge I have now. Not that she didn't already know it, she knew it before and does have things shes also working on. Part of it also is that I'm working so hard on it and coming up with so many things it doesn't leave time for uss for some happy time. I know she has backed off from wanting that because of me breaking the NC rules I agreed to so I will just have to find a way to get it thru my thick skull that I made an agreement and I have to stick to that to show her and myself that I can live up to my agreements when I make them. Thats the note I need to carry on NC days.

I asked her last night if she wanted to go to an antique and collectable show this weekend so we caan relax and enjoy a day of not having it weigh on us and I think that will do us some major good. I know it will help me to calm down and I hope it would help her also to see we can enjoy life together. I haven't contacted her today and I will not so thats another positive step in the right direction. I just need to keep adding to that. I know she loves me and I know my love for her right now could only be deeper if we were happy and together and that it's pretty strong as it is. I just don't want to lose this feeling on divorce day due to the pain. I hope she can find it in her to re evaluate it in a week and a half to allow more time to see my changes. If not then I think she'll walk away forever and we will be left with the biggest missed opportunity of our whole marriage.

Well I made it thru today with NC. It's so hard because I love her so much. I have to understand though that part of showing that love to her right now is by living up to our agreements from my end. Even though I didn't mean for it to be a breaking of agreement it is and it makes her feel that way. Actions cause feelings. Non actions also cause feelings and thats a big part of why we're at where we're at. My actions and non actions have caused her feelings. At this time my actions and non actions can cause her to have positive feelings also. It's also about love and hurt. I caused her hurt when she was loving me so now I've hurt myself while I'm trying to love her. All this makes a difference in my permanent change so I can learn to not let this happen again. I can no longer beat myself up about the fact I didn't wake up sooner. It does me no good at this point and it certainly does us no good. It's in that aspect that I have let my feelings cause actions in the past in a negative way and I need to understand that just because I feel a certain way it should not effect my loving actions for her.

One thing I'm amazed at though when I see it on these boards and thats that the impression I get is that people are who they are and cannot change. Not that all people believe that but I have read some posts to that effect. I believe in my case that I learned to be controlling and manipulating (in no way an excuse at all I never should have allowed myself to become that way and I'm to blame for my actions plain and simple). I do believe i learned it though over time and I think thats of great help to me in changing and changing permanently. I do understand why I changed also. Greed had a part in it, wanting what I wanted at all cost instead of respecting her feelings and seeing them for what they really were and are and that there is love inside those feelings and expressing them to me was expressing love in the form of communication and her desires and wants needing to be met (love language). Selfishness played another role but i guess that can go right along side greed. Losing site of the beauty of her inside and outside played a role in that also. She is truly a wonderful and amazing lady that deserves the best love possible out of me (the love I gave her when we first met). That love and attraction has come back to me now with better understanding and it never should have left. It took time to tear that all down so it will take time to build it back up again and I need to understand that and stay the course. If she can allow me to be the part of her life now that I'am then it can greatly improve with the knowledge I'm gaining and draw us closer then ever before. There's so much I understand about withdrawl now and how it just tears things apart. Loving Solutions is the key and those solutions paths are thru the Love Languages she needs and thru clear communication and understanding. Part of those solutions and languages right now are the NC days so I will give her that to respect her feelings and things can build from there.

ezb,

Just a short note here.

Have you considered backing off from contacting her at all for a period of time? It would be something she doesn't expect and just might plant a seed that you may not always come back. She gets her fix everytime you contact her, if you stop, she's probably going to want to know why.

There's some theory out there about a dance between couples where each person in a couple are comfortable at a certain (emotional) distance from each other. When one moves toward the other, the other moves back to maintain the distance. It work the opposite way too, when one person backs away, the other wants to get closer. Do you see how when your W backed away, you wanted to move closer? What do you think of that theory? Can you use it to help your W feel comfortable again?

I agree. Seems to me you are entirely to fixated on her, and changing how she reacts / deals with you. You can't do that . Only time can.

If you can't respect the NC boundries she asked for, how can she trust you really changed in other areas?

I would recommend that you focus on yourself, focus on your kids, and stick to the guidelines you set already with your W.

Also, remember that just because you have done wrong in the past does not give her a free pass to guilt you into signing divorce papers, etc. This is a big red flag for me.