But then again maybe it was the LOVE for me that was still there...I hope this doesn't hurt either of you for me to say this..but it seems that you are trying to figure this stuff out..IF POSSIBLE...

There were times during PLAN A that it seemed clear to me that my H still had lots of love for me..but he couldn't break away from her...

He seemed HAPPY to have ME back AGAIN..kept asking me: "WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS NOW WHEN IT'S TOO LATE?"

This MAY make a difference. It helps ME to say this out loud.

I've figured out that my H is a BUYER who turned into a RENTER when he began his affair...

He is more of a BUYER than I am/was...

I failed to APPRECIATE how much he LOVED me and how much he NEEDED me to put him first...

His parents remain HAPPILY MARRIED..He learned to be a BUYER...and a GIVER

Mine are DIVORCED...I had LOTS of things about BEING MARRIED all WRONG...

I hear what you are saying Mimi. I know I had a part in the demise of my M, and I also didn't always put my WH first. Like most BS's, I didn't know there was anything wrong, which is probably why I'm having a hard time accepting this.

Of course I still love my WH. I've known him almost all of my life, so I don't remember a time when he wasn't in it somewhere. I struggle with whether I did the right thing or not. I just couldn't deal with the continued dishonesty and disrespect.

I'm not sure that I'm strong enough to go through it again. This is why I'm asking how you really know it's the real thing and that they really want their M.

For me, it was the FINANCIAL STUFF..cause he's a real TIGHTWAD...

REPARATIONS..like DR. HARLEY says..HIS ACTIONS spoke louder than his WORDS..

Although he clearly missed her and whined about "messing up her life" (YUCK), he DID stuff DAILY to EVIDENCE his sincerity.

For example, early on in Recovery, he BOUGHT a NEW WEDDING RING and put it on. He had pawned the one he had worn for years. I didn't notice for awhile and then he pointed it out to me. He finally took that one back and NOW wears the FIRST RING I gave him when we got married. HE HAD KEPT IT ALL THOSE YEARS AND I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT!!

Yes, it was like he was trying to PROVE to ME and/or himself that he wanted THE MARRIAGE. He definitely didn't seem as "in love" with me as he is now.

MY1STLOVE I am so glad to here your good news.I will be praying for you both.I will keep popping in to catch up on you.
God really does work miracles!!
Remember what you told me months ago about banners?Well the new one at the church I pass by is FULLNESS AND FREEDOM.I'm wondering if this is not refering to my freedom after divorce!!
Time will tell...

Again I am so glad for you and will pray that WH comes to his senses and returns home to you and the kids..

I'm not really trying to figure it out, so much as gather information for those BS still in the trenches, fighting to save their marriages. What types of BEHAVIOR, What actions to look out for in a truly repentent WS. If a WS comes home with even one bit of cockiness that his poo don't stink, I fear for those BS's attempting recovery.

It sounds like your FWH KNEW that he had problems seeking affections and admiration outside the marriage and was ready to fight it, and build a better marriage. Many WS's STILL don't believe that they are battling with their own inner demons, but that the state of the marriage MADE them choose to go outside. This, IMO, is a big fat red flag.

PWC never SAID these things, but he also never said much of ANYTHING. I know for a fact that he harbored anger for me (as he told me so) but he wouldn't tell me why. Very PA behavior.

He also didn't really go above and beyond my initial conditions for entering recovery, and once he clinched a spot in the home, slowly stopped doing much of anything.

DING..DING..DING...CORRECT ANSWER...

Caveat: I didn't know about MB.

When my husband came home (the final time), there was never "a conversation" about him coming home. He had never completely moved all of his things, even though I'd tried to get him to that. I knew he and OW#2 were on the outs (I'd talked to her).

He helped me move to a larger place and just started hanging around more and more. Finally, one day I asked him, are you here to stay? His answer was always, we'll see how it goes. That hurt. I was on my best behavior!! (shaking my head at myself)

After 2-3 months his fog finally cleared. It was weird. All the sudden, OW(s) weren't the goddesses he thought they were. He became sincerely repentent. I almost blew it with my AO, LB and DJs but once I found MB, I learned how to deal with my emotions much better.

I would say, even though we reconcilled BEFORE I found MB, it wasn't until after I found MB, that I was able to REALLY begin personal healing. I understood things better and purposed in my heart to forgive. I'm now an emotionally healthier person because of MB.

PM,

So what happens? They just all of the sudden come out of a trance and decide the the M is more important? What wakes them up I wonder? It's just confusing how some wake up over night and forget the OP while others take months of withdrawl. What's the difference?

Just trying to understand all this....

CL:

You have to BUY the ADDICTION theory.

In order to be motivated to beat an addiction, the ADDICT has to reach his/her bottom...has to SUFFER..which eventually occurred for my H during PLAN B...

An affair, like any ADDICTION, is SELF-DESTRUCTIVE...

Then, without the drug, the ADDICT must go through WITHDRAWAL...

Dr. Harley attributes his SUCCESS to identifying the affair as AN ADDICTION...

It CERTAINLY was the case for my H..

I think he continues to be ADDICTED to the FEELING the OW gave him...not necessarily to HER..but if he has contact with HER..I don't doubt that the affair COULD resume...

I'm sure he RECOGNIZES this as being a PROBLEM for him which could have led to HIS RUIN..

I'm sure that many of us have had old BFs/GFs that we were "in love" with, but it didn't work. You could say we were addicted to them I guess. Anyway, it wouldn't phase me in the least if I ran into an old BF of mine. In fact, I'd probably be sickened and wonder what in the h3ll I saw in him anyway.

I see what you are saying Mimi, it's just that sometimes I have a had time processing it.

I should probably quit spending so much time trying to understand it. It starts to make me crazy.

Yup. It actually took me quite a long time to 'buy' it. Once I did, it was easier to handle. Of course, then PWC took on another addiction to replace the addiction to those feelings, so I couldn't get in. It stinks.

So now you UNDERSTAND! This is what occurs after WITHDRAWAL! This is how my H experiences the FOW...NOW..

But after seeing her repeatedly..or you seeing the old BFs repeatedly...I WONDER...

That's what's hard for me to process right now. I don't know if he's really addicted to the affair and in a fog or if he really means what he says and will continue to mean them for the rest of his life. It's difficult.

If I ran into my last boyfriend, I'm certain I would FEEL something, because he was a good guy, and attractive, he was just a little whiny and fearful. Even guys where there was that sexual tension with, but no relationship, I know some of that would come rushing back.

Now, guys that I ended up detesting, I would feel like Chai, at least initially, but I have to agree that seeing them over and over again could bring up those GOOD feelings that I once had for them. It's human nature. I don't fight human nature.

Much of the reason that I allowed PWC so many chances has to do with human nature and those GOOD feelings. When you are apart, at least after a while, you remember the good things, forgetting the bad, so when you initially get back together, you relive a short honeymoon phase, until REALITY comes a knockin'.

THAT is why the principles are so very important. They help to guide you toward maintaining those (normal level) good feelings for one another, help you to be a source of joy for your spouse, which can help carry you both thru those inevitable rough times.

Wow, I do go on, don't I.

If he's DOING the right things consistently, you will gain a new level of trust that what he is showing you is real. If he's wish washy, and picking and choosing, and making justifications, it will take a lot longer, or it won't work at all.

NOTE: I said what he's DOING, NOT what he's SAYING

He's not really doing anything but talking. Well, other than the fact that he walked out and chose the OW over his family. He's says A LOT, but I don't know what his actions mean. It's all so confusing for a very up front, in your face person such as myself.

I failed to note that I don't think that AN AFFAIR ADDICTION/RELATIONSHIP is comparable to NORMAL boyfriends and girlfriends. A large part of the ADDICTIVENESS of it is the SECRECY and "CAPTURED MOMENTS" which result in a sense of ECSTASY or whatever. In fact, they want to hold onto to that. That's what PLAN B does..makes the AFFAIR real so that the "MAGIC" is lost.

I use the descriptor "MAGIC" because that is the BIT of FOGGINESS that I find left in my husband..sometimes I think he wants me to be "MAGIC"..I even say this to him...

The OW could easily do this in the STOLEN MOMENTS that they had together on weekends and in the evening before he came home...get the dinner JUST RIGHT at the RIGHT TIME..I think she must have done what I call "ACADEMY AWARD PERFORMANCES"..you can't keep that up 24/7 but it must have been "FUN" (I know- YUCK)...

So I work on creating FUN TIMES and SPECIAL TREATS and stuff for US..but it seems to hold features of the affair-life...KWIM???

I'm pleased you posted that Mimi, I have just recently started to wonder what makes the A all that much different from normal GF/BF relationships.
BTW Although I have a degree of good memories for most of my old BF, none of them are the man i need. i dont think i would be tempted.
There but by the grace of God......

I certainly agree with Mimi's statments, and although my former boyfriend was not the man for me, I did love him, and find things about him attractive, and if those things still exist in him, I could see myself being attracted to that.

I was not addicted to him by any means, just an old flame.